Player Features and Ideas Discussion

What you would need is a combination of things.


Make supers worth bringing to grid. the FAX proposals mean that with enough firepower on the opposing side losses WILL happen. This requires one or both of the following, imo:


1) Make the WORTH risking a loss for:
>Easing the loss pain, perhaps insurance?
>Making them affect the field in a way that a multi through hundred billion hull should. I mean, if losses are all but assured you're going to need the ships to make a real big difference


2) Make more contests worth "going in heavy". This is much harder (I actually venture effectively impossible), you'd have to find a mechanic that drove people to commit the supers because the loss from not doing so outweighs the loss of some supers. I say this is likely impossible because if such a driver existed then it creates a meta whereby go super or go home. But then it's early and CCP are smart, maybe there is a way.


The cap review changes mean that these things WILL die more if they come to grid, the real magic will be providing incentive to actually bring them. Graths question to Larrikin could be reworded to "Why would I ever put these on grid?". If CCP can provide that answer, the the rest will fall into line.

Right now we're in a meta where pretty much these only die in transit because they are not committed to the field in a situation where there is ever any risk. The blog changes will ensure that all fields have a much higher risk attached, but the missing counterpart (imho) is that there's still not a reason to put things that expensive into that environment in the first place.

I don't fly nor care to fly supercaps. But I do Agree the Watchlist should get the nerf hammer to it. I will not lie I abuse the hell out of the watch list especially for Campers and Blops Pilots. They are more using log off traps then anything. They work, Im not crying about that at all. Pilots fly with blinders on.

What I don't agree with is the ability to see when players log on and off from clear across the universe without having to even know them. Watch list has been around for how many years now, If super pilots havent learned that you should have the area scouted before log in by now... Then its to the scrapyard for ya. But I am all for getting rid of free intel or delaying it. Even if it means my corp and I are at risk more. The fact is , in its current iteration I can tell when a logged off pilots gets back in game before his screen is even done loading. Any intelligent pilots know to GTFO to safety unless they know whats on the other side of that ship. That in my eyes is poor design. I am not saying get rid of the Watch list, or have players need to approve being added to a list.

Hell forget the whole Null-sec crying over it, when I lived in hi-sec we would watch list entire corporations or alliances that we war-decced or that war-decced us. We would decide if we should log in to play at that time or just hit a different game up depending on what we could do with the amount of targets online.

I would suggest a delay on the watch list notifications. Maybe somewhere around 3-10 minutes or so. Remove the ability to know someone came on before their screen is even finished loading. This keeps the watch list functionality but also gets rid of the Instant Intel ability that so many complain about. While this change or any change to be honest to the functionality of the list would irritate groups that rely on instant intel Vs visually collected intel. This would be a buff to anyone who does Log-off traps/blops/cloaky camp. Log off traps now have a better chance of working. War-Decced corps might be willing to undock and fly with the thought of, well he hasn't appeared on my list yet - means I haven't appeared on his.. quick run to X system with goods and roll the dice. But it also gives those Space Coffins a little extra time to react and have screens load etc. If you want to know if that Coffin logged in, well Locators tell you its last system and old fashioned sitting in a system will let you know when they logged in.

I think a Delay Vs Removal of watch list or "Approval system" would be more accepted bitterly by the warring groups over this system. Also remember, It's called a "Watch List" not a "friends list" or "Acquaintance list". The entire purpose around it was for Intel. But when it was created in its day compared to now has completely changed with new concepts developed around counter-logged off alts near where players logged, as well as stronger understanding of the mechanics and the sheer amount of Coffins this gets used on compared to the past.

Do you feel the same way about setting standings? If someone needs my permission to watchlist me, then they should also need my permission to set stanings. Standings label me as good, bad or neutral whenever I enter a system. That's a lot more immediately useful free intel than any watchlist ever provided. Also, get rid of setting standings between corps and alliances - it should only be on an individual basis.

You mean local chat.

"Free intel" is a silly meaningless meme and any argument using it can be ignored. All intel has to be observed to be useful. Is the watchlist free? It requires attention and gives minimal info: online or offline. Is local free? It requires being in the same system and paying attention. Are station guest lists free intel? They require being docked. Is the overview free intel? Do you want us zooming in with the camera and manually reading registration numbers on ships? That's still "free". Intel is intel, I don't know what the hell "free intel" is.

STOP CALLING IT THE WATCHLIST!!!


the watchlist is the thing which tells you the ehp sate of 10 people or so in your fleet.

I disagree. Why should it be up to my enemy to decide if I can see if they are online or not? Only the very stupid ones will accept the request. So if I dont know if my enemy is on, I would have to fly around the 5000 or so star systems looking in local for each system to find them?

That is just plain stupid. It is like suspecting that your girlfriend is cheating on you, but having to ask her permission to have a private investigator follow her just to make sure she isn't. And if this is stemming from the supercap pilots wanting to get rid of this, then this has reached a whole another level of stupid. It is their choice to sit in a ship all day, no one forced you into it.

Do not get rid of the online watch list. For that pilot throwing a tantrum about the term 'watch list', don't worry, your precious fleet watch list won't go anywhere.

The watch list and locater agents have limits and are not always perfect. They are not OP.

If you want to build stuff in peace, there is always Minecraft to go play.

I would like it if there was a mobile structure whose job it was to keep eyes on people of interests within a certain range. Like a deployable watchlist. That would be a decent alternative.

You're not getting it. I'm fine w/ the watch list and want it to stay. In true forum fashion I'm asking for an unreasonable compromise. Consensual watchlisting should be accompanied by consensual setting of standings. They are both equally rediculous to me. The difference is that super flying null bears would love to do w/out watchlisting,but couldn't bear to part with reds and blues. It's about them wanting everything in their favor.

Quoting myself:

Let me tell you why I use the watch list.

Sometimes I'll add acquaintances from long ago that I wonder, are they still playing? If they log in, hooray! I can convo them! Without watch lists, someone might disable this and end up isolated.

Am I following a person of interest and need to know if they logged off entirely, vs they went out a different gate or clone jumped? Good, I had them on watch list!

Do my targets have me watch listed and all dock up every time I'm logged in? Darn, that's too bad but why should I be mad about it? Keep in mind that watch lists, in almost every situation I've used it, has been much less important than actually getting seen in the first place. If I'm harassing some poor guy so much that he wants to not play any time I'm online, why would you take that ability away from him? I should be bothering someone else for a change!

Mutual-friend contacts mean that anyone with access to your friends' friend lists know something private about you: that you're friends with them. Am I giving my full API to some corp I'm not sure about, and don't want them to know every one of my friends, innocent and guilty? If I were to do something that really pissed them off, why should they know who all my mutual friends are? Many of them would never hurt a fly, but I can name you any number of groups that would happily blacklist anyone I'm really friends with if only they knew.

Keep in mind that removing watch list would be HUGELY more of an advantage to larger groups and players with numerous alts; solo players would be at a much greater disadvantage by comparison, because the alternative is seeing the person you are looking for in local. Removing watch list capabilities, regardless of whether you think it 'makes sense' in your headcanon of Eve's lore, would be yet another disadvantage stacked against smaller corps/alliances and players with fewer accounts, something CCP has been trying to get away from for years now.

What people here in this community think is good, bad, or witch hunt worthy has no bearing on reality. Eve is not Facebook: Nothing much else in the game happens by mutual consent, why should this?

The only change that might make sense is to make the watch list a non-instant indicator, perhaps on the scale of 5-10 minutes. Removing it or making it mutual is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.