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L4 Typhoon - RHML or Cruise?

Author
Boozbaz
Securitech Industries
#1 - 2015-11-07 04:26:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Boozbaz
I'm going to do some work in EFT and test out the DPS I get with RHML and Cruise missiles against ships with similar sig radii and velocities as you can typically expect in L4 missions.

I'm going to test the DPS with, and without target painters and webs, to see which missile platform performs the best.

I plan to ignore torpedos, because torpedos seem to be best used on larger ships, and L4 missions have a lot of ships that are smaller than battleships.

After doing all this with the Typhoon, I plan to do it again, with the Typhoon Fleet Issue.

However, before I get to work, I wanted to post here on the forums and ask you guys/gals -> RHML or Cruise for Typhoon on L4 missions? (or Typhoon Fleet Issue)
Boozbaz
Securitech Industries
#2 - 2015-11-07 05:02:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Boozbaz
Welp, here's the graphs.

The Green Line is the RHML (and a pretty good Tom Hanks Movie - *ba*dum*tsh*)
The Blue Line is the Cruise Missile Launcher
The Red Line is the Torpedo Launcher.

At 10km, the DPS drops a lot, because that's the range of the web.
At 45km, the DPS drops again, because that's the range of the Target Painter.

This is the DPS against a Cruiser with a sig radius of 130, and a velocity of 346. These numbers were meant to be similar to an Imperial Navy Maller: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=15322

http://i.imgur.com/XFsqWJE.png


This is the DPS against a Battleship with a sig radius of 417, and a velocity of 279. These numbers were meant to be similar to an Imperial Navy Dominator http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=24982

http://i.imgur.com/2S9NjzQ.png

Conclusions:

1. RHML does the better damage to cruisers than both Torpedos and Cruise Missiles.
2. The Torpedo does the best damage to battleships at close range; at further ranges, then the RMHL is better than the Cruise Missiles.


Side note: I picked those sig radii and velocities because I like to run missions against Amarr NPC Navy.
Sequester Risalo
German Corps of Engineers 17
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#3 - 2015-11-07 07:51:16 UTC
This is very helpful, thank you.
Boozbaz
Securitech Industries
#4 - 2015-11-07 09:08:49 UTC
Sequester Risalo wrote:
This is very helpful, thank you.


Keep in mind that I didn't do this with T2 missiles. At some point in the future I might do this with T2 missiles and see how that changes things.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#5 - 2015-11-07 09:46:02 UTC
Are the RHML Reload times taken into account? It hugely nerfs your dps over time. You DPS will show as being really high but that's only true for a single clip.

It all depends on what you are planning on using the ship for, ratting/missions, or PvP

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
#6 - 2015-11-07 09:51:23 UTC
i am using RHML for L4 (yes, i am strange), and must say that there is only one ship that good for rapid heavy's on L4 - Fleet Typhoon.
Bargest have range and it not so good for PVE.
Raven and Scorpion Navy have rof - which is excellent for PVP, but not for PVE
Typhoon works fine with cruise missiles
Valacus
Streets of Fire
#7 - 2015-11-07 18:57:33 UTC
RHMLs take 5 years to reload. If you can't clear a room in 1 magazine, you'll be running super slow.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2015-11-07 20:40:34 UTC
also try drone boat setup

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

A Ingus
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
#9 - 2015-11-07 21:24:24 UTC
Train tech II sentries. Use cruise missiles.

I often use a Fleet Phoon with one DLA II in a utility high and a painter in a mid. The sentries are used to take out the frig and dessys at 84km or closer. The cruise launcher IIs are for everything else. I use regular or precision cruises for the cruisers. The BCs and BSs get fury cruises. If any frigs get under the sentries I just mop them up with light tech II drones.

I see so many missile users trying to figure out how to use only missiles in missions. Most missile boats have a drone bay. Drones are excellent for taking out small stuff. Gun boats have to use them too if they small ships get under the gun tracking. So don't go rigor crazy or whatever trying to make your large missiles kill everything. Train some drone skills and use them.

The phoonkind are blessed with a larger drone bay than most nondrone boats. So sentries are very nice to use.
Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
#10 - 2015-11-07 22:14:24 UTC
Valacus wrote:
RHMLs take 5 years to reload. If you can't clear a room in 1 magazine, you'll be running super slow.


false statement. if you have ship that can clean room in 72 sec, please post a fit.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#11 - 2015-11-08 07:43:04 UTC
I'd go with cruise. long range, short reload, and npcs are pretty fat and slow compared to player ships.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Boozbaz
Securitech Industries
#12 - 2015-11-08 08:36:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Boozbaz
Anize Oramara wrote:
Are the RHML Reload times taken into account? It hugely nerfs your dps over time. You DPS will show as being really high but that's only true for a single clip.



Thank you for pointing this out to me. I did not include reload time on my original graphs. Here's the new graphs, with reload time included.

Once again:
The Green Line is the RHML (and a pretty good Tom Hanks Movie - *ba*dum*tsh*)
The Blue Line is the Cruise Missile Launcher
The Red Line is the Torpedo Launcher.

This is the DPS against a Cruiser with a sig radius of 130, and a velocity of 346. These numbers were meant to be similar to an Imperial Navy Maller:

http://i.imgur.com/Bu2pDus.png

This is the DPS against a Battleship with a sig radius of 417, and a velocity of 279. These numbers were meant to be similar to an Imperial Navy Dominator:

http://i.imgur.com/zCOCOPU.png

Conclusions:

1. Against cruisers, RHML does better DPS, unless the cruiser is webbed, or beyond the range of RHML.
2. Against battleships, RHML's are the worst choice. Torpedoes do the best damage within web range, and cruise missiles do better damage from further ranges.
Boozbaz
Securitech Industries
#13 - 2015-11-08 08:58:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Boozbaz
And here we go with the -_-_***Typhoon Fleet Issue***_-_-

Now we're using the Typhoon Fleet Issue and we're also incorporating the reload time into the equation.

I'm sorry for the confusing change of color, but here's the colors...

The BLUE LINE is the RHML
The GREEN LINE is the Cruise Launcher
The RED LINE is the Torpedo Launcher

Against the Cruiser...

http://i.imgur.com/uCYTS2g.png


Against the Battleship...

http://i.imgur.com/iOgZcEY.png

Conclusions:

1. Uriam Khanid stated "there is only one ship that good for rapid heavy's on L4 - Fleet Typhoon" - and while I don't 100% agree with this statement, it is clear the the TFI is much better suited for RHML's than the regular Typhoon.

2. The TFI does good damage with RHML against Battleships that are beyond web range.

I did further testing with T2 ammunition. I wont post the graphs because I don't want to overload this thread with so many graphs that things become confusing. Instead I'll just say this: With T2 missiles, Torpedos do HUGE damage, as long as the targets are within web range. Beyond web range, RHML does better dps. Cruise missiles have the best range. That's a summary of my findings so far anyways.
Thron Legacy
White Zulu
Scorpion Federation
#14 - 2015-11-08 20:17:42 UTC
what if i tell you that target painters work beyond 45km, altho at less efficiency = your graph is wrong at the end, it should go down like a quadratical function and not just drop down in an instant

and to actually give useful feedback
Cruise VICTOR
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#15 - 2015-11-08 21:16:04 UTC
At 23km the cruise dps drops to 0?

what?

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
#16 - 2015-11-08 21:37:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Sheeth Athonille
Thron Legacy wrote:
what if i tell you that target painters work beyond 45km, altho at less efficiency = your graph is wrong at the end, it should go down like a quadratical function and not just drop down in an instant

and to actually give useful feedback
Cruise VICTOR


I don't use missiles very often, so I might be wrong, but I believe this has to do with the flight time on missiles. I believe they simply don't work after a certain range, so their dps is effectively 0. Turrets are different since they do have fall-off, but not missiles.

Edit: I reread the posts again and see what you mean, so nvm Oops

Anize Oramara wrote:
At 23km the cruise dps drops to 0?

what?


The red line is the torpedo's, not cruise :P
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#17 - 2015-11-08 22:49:10 UTC
what is your fit and are you using implants?

Webs can be very strong for missile application, but the ranges involved are so small, that it just isn't really helpful in most missions. using another painter, or a missile guidance computer might provide better overall damage.

for the TFI:
looks to me that using 2x rigor II 1x flare II, a RF painter and a precision scripted MGC you get full application with faction cruise missiles on cruisers.

same setup but with 3x painters 2x mgc and 5% implants gets full application with fury. That however gets into the realm of wasting slots that need to be doing other thigns. Looks like 2x painter 1x mgc is what I'd try to fly with, leaving a slot for a cap injector and a prop mod.

good application is nice on cruisers as you can usually fire 1 volley and let your sentry drones finish off the target, or two volley the target.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#18 - 2015-11-09 00:06:18 UTC
For the TFI I'd go armor tank, fury cruise and sentries. A little tight on CPU with a MWD but it can put out a decent amount of dps and apply that dps extremely well. If you go shield tank you lose a lot of that application for minor dps gain.

That said a Rattlesnake and Machariel will both out dps it, where the Rattlesnake will out tank it and the Mach will fly circles around it too. The rattlesnake is a superior RHML platform on top of all that because of more damage coming from drones and bigger damage bonus.

That said the TFI is a great ship with it's only real problem (in terms of PvE) being that there are better ships that do the same thing for about the same price Pirate

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
#19 - 2015-11-09 00:42:45 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:

for the TFI:
looks to me that using 2x rigor II 1x flare II, a RF painter and a precision scripted MGC you get full application with faction cruise missiles on cruisers.


with RHML you don't need all of this. and you apply damage much better to all ship, even frig's.
and other disadvantage of RHML - you need to MONITOR how you apply damage.
it means that you need to stop shooting on the target, BEFORE you hit the target. and it is a big problem, not the 35 sec reload
Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
#20 - 2015-11-09 00:49:34 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
For the TFI I'd go armor tank, fury cruise and sentries. A little tight on CPU with a MWD but it can put out a decent amount of dps and apply that dps extremely well. If you go shield tank you lose a lot of that application for minor dps gain.

That said a Rattlesnake and Machariel will both out dps it, where the Rattlesnake will out tank it and the Mach will fly circles around it too. The rattlesnake is a superior RHML platform on top of all that because of more damage coming from drones and bigger damage bonus.

That said the TFI is a great ship with it's only real problem (in terms of PvE) being that there are better ships that do the same thing for about the same price Pirate


you conclusions are wrong, TFI with RHML actually outperform the Rattlesnake with RHML
and i am using shield TFI. because it is never come to armorBig smile
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