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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!! First post
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Chribba

Otherworld Enterprises

Otherworld Empire

Likes received: 15,906

#2501 - 2015-11-06 08:22:35 UTC

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

As I asked above, what will you do when EVE goes free to play?

Celebrating that I was here before the F2P so I still have some ISK to spend without having to spend real cash! Lol

Good post btw, thought through and some good points there.

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

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Scipio Artelius

Weaponised Vegemite

Flying Dangerous

Likes received: 47,807

#2502 - 2015-11-06 08:38:46 UTC

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

PCU is going down, but ingame activity is doing great (it's even INCREASING) and he's pretty proud of it.

As I wrote, he didn't say the game is fine, nor did he discuss subscription numbers.

You might have the impression that he thinks the game is fine, but it's not what he said and he went nowhere near subscription numbers in the slightest.

Market McSelling Alt

Doomheim

Likes received: 797

#2503 - 2015-11-06 12:48:25 UTC

Portmanteau wrote:

Surely any real statement about how dangerous hisec is vs nullsec needs to consider every system of each and factor in the population. This is why crime stats are per capita not total. You have completely the wrong data to make any statement about this.

Why should it? Jenn set the bar for the recent pages with her (paraphrased) "Numbers don't matter, activity is still up" post.

And if you go through the charts you see 0.0 has plenty of mining, production and imported trade. Dotlan confirms they rat all day long, Isk faucet charts confirms.

So they are very active out there, they just don't like to blow up ships much right?

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Arthur Hannigen

Likes received: 30

#2504 - 2015-11-06 13:04:28 UTC | Edited by: Arthur Hannigen

CCP 'Hallellujah' Quant wrote:

(...)

Many players rely on daily Peak Concurrent Users (PCU) numbers to estimate activity in EVE Online since PCU is the only official number that is available for players to see, e.g. on Chribba's eve-offline.net, but here is a graph showing the 30 day moving average of it since Aug 2012:

(...)

While EVE PCU has been declining a bit for the past two years for various reasons, e.g. skillqueue changes, I wanted to give you a glimpse into actual activity numbers and the state of the EVE Online economy."

(...)

Here you can see that, contrary to some conclusions that can be drawn from the PCU graph, activity is not going down overall. If we normalize it by unique logons, we rather see those numbers increasing, meaning that those playing now contribute relatively more to the sandbox than the general population in the previous years, which is a great sign:

(...)

Tippia, is that you? Cuz I only know of one person that can take facts and distort them into the opposite like that What?

"It is true that PCU is down to 217 players, but it's OK because once you normalize and sprinkle some hooblah jooblah over here the numbers are actually increasing." Fun times ahead.

Jenn aSide

Soul Machines

The Initiative.

Likes received: 16,192

#2505 - 2015-11-06 13:34:48 UTC | Edited by: Jenn aSide

Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Portmanteau wrote:

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68738/1/total.destroyed.value.(pvp).by.region.sept.2015.png

That's what you linked. That shows that more value is destroyed in null sec than high sec. Portmanteau is of course right, per capita stats are more important (null sec wins there too, high sec is chocked full of characters where as null is sparse in comparison, making the value and frequency of destruction in null even more impressive), but I was responding to what you said, since you forgot, here it is:

Market McSelling Alt wrote:

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68738/1/regional.stats.png

Oh and by the way. High sec was MASSIVELY more dangerous than 0.0 according to this report.

It isn't even close, 0.0 doesn't touch the hind end of Minmatar space. But you guys out there sure do like to Mine Shocked

It's mathematically wrong. Null sec destruction far outpaced high sec according to the thing you linked. Because high sec is small (only something like 16% of EVE is high sec) it's more concentrated, but in total it's still less than null. So by your own metric (which again, it a bad metric because it doesn't take population numbers into account) null is more dangerous than high.

It's not unlike the time you posted that Isk faucet link, which you thought proved a point about how rich null sec players where but actually ended up proving the point you were trying to disprove, and that is that high sec incursions are wildly unbalanced (with 1.5% of players generating the 3rd largest isk faucet where as it takes 10s of thousands of anom farmers and mission runners to generate the largest). Ironically CCP Quant noticed it too in this latest DEV blog, also mentioning that along with the 2rd largets isk faucet, they are getting CONCORD LP to boot.

All of the above just points to a rigid and deeply partisan personality that is unwilling to accept the truth if the truth doesn't conform to a certain agenda. The fact that it's not even a real agenda (but rather something to do with a video game) makes it even more disturbing.

TL;DR your own link (and by your own metric) accidentally proves that they oft said phrase "high sec is more dangerous than null" is a lie, previously you accidentally proved (with a link) that high sec incursions are wildly unbalanced (And Quants DevBlog confirms this too).

Conclusion: you should probably refrain from linking stuff. That and work on your honesty abilities.

Advanced Technology 426
To mare Advanced Technology Likes received: 426	#2506 - 2015-11-06 14:07:08 UTC EVE is dieing!!

Portmanteau

Iron Krosz

Likes received: 212

#2507 - 2015-11-06 14:18:42 UTC | Edited by: Portmanteau

Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Portmanteau wrote:

Why should it?

Basic statistics.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-50-most-violent-cities-in-the-world-2015-1?r=US&IR=T

Please note how each entry shows homicides *per 100 000 population*. Factoring population is essential or one cannot produce the statistical chance that a person will be victim to homicide, this is very very basic maths.

If one lives in a city of 5 million people where there are 100 homicides per year, one has a significantly lower chance of being murdered (1 in 50000) than in a city of 1 million people where there are 50 homicides per year (1 in 20000) . But using your analysis of total homicides irrespective of population would make the larger city appear more dangerous. Let me help you out here... your analysis is wrong.

Also your arbitrary selection of a single system (uedama) as a means to demonstrate why all of hisec is "more dangerous" is laughably wrong, surely I don't need to explain why ?

Doomheim 938
Kaivar Lancer Doomheim Likes received: 938	#2508 - 2015-11-06 14:25:43 UTC The massive decline that started in May seems to coincide with the rise in PLEX prices.

Market McSelling Alt

Doomheim

Likes received: 797

#2509 - 2015-11-06 14:35:40 UTC

Portmanteau wrote:

Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Portmanteau wrote:

Why should it?

Yes, I understand that. I am showing how ridiculous the comments by some are that are completely contradictory.

On one hand they say everyone is in 0.0 and high-sec is just filled with their risk free isk making alts. They say that numbers don't matter only activity does.

On the other hand you have them saying no one lives in 0.0 so there is no density, and that everyone is in high-sec and that just because activity is lower per capita in high-sec we need ways to get people to be more active in null..

Its a circle jerk of logic, they want it the best of both ways to prove their point. Which is simple in the end, they don't like that there is a high-sec at all.

Besides, per capita statistics do nothing for this game because there are too many ways to show up in the numbers but not participate in any activities... like ship spinning. 17% of characters in this game have never ever undocked according to Quant.

Again, the numbers are moving further and further away from Null sec being the destruction zone. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats/2015 shows us how they are lagging, but those NPC kills don't seem to be budging much Roll

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Jenn aSide

Soul Machines

The Initiative.

Likes received: 16,192

#2510 - 2015-11-06 15:13:18 UTC | Edited by: Jenn aSide

Market McSelling Alt wrote:

This is an example of prejudice (in this case, against null sec).

When a person has a prejudice, certain things happen. One thing is that they tend to exaggerate and conflate what people are saying, mainly because prejudiced people see the "other side" as one united 'thing' that has one united opinion (instead of being a diverse collection of individuals with individual opinions). So this poster is taking things DIFFERENT PEOPLE have said, globbed them together into some imaginary meta-opinion that no one holds, and is then arguing against that opinion that doesn't exist.

For example, I've never said anything about everyone being in high sec, or about forcing people out of high sec (because both of those things are stupid).

Quote:

Its a circle jerk of logic, they want it the best of both ways to prove their point. Which is simple in the end, they don't like that there is a high-sec at all.

Words proving the above point have been highlighted. He thinks that all of us want high sec to go away. He doesn't listen we some of us say that we don't want that (it would be stupid, EVE needs a places for casual types, and it needs a stable trading zone for all of us, and all space being the same ie 'low/null' would be boring).

Pointing out glaring imbalances (as he helped us do...accidentally both times) isn't the same as saying "I want this to go away . Market McSelling Alt (whoever he really is) subscribes to the idea that all of us want people out of high sec so we have more targets, which is BS because to me there are too many people in null, and most of them find a way to show up right when i start trying to rat to make some isk.

Quote:

Besides, per capita statistics do nothing for this game because there are too many ways to show up in the numbers but not participate in any activities... like ship spinning. 17% of characters in this game have never ever undocked according to Quant.

Again, the numbers are moving further and further away from Null sec being the destruction zone. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats/2015 shows us how they are lagging, but those NPC kills don't seem to be budging much Roll

And this part shows a couple other facets of deep prejudice: delusion (the idea that " the numbers are moving further and further away from Null sec being the destruction zone" when he has zero proof of this, and which i9s Ironic given that he previously denied that null was the destruction zone in the 1st place) and deflection. The deflection part is him basically not addressing the previous poster's concerns about why he isn't using sound logic in favor of just saying "well null sec did it first!".

Market McSelling Alt

Doomheim

Likes received: 797

#2511 - 2015-11-06 16:02:12 UTC

Jenn aSide wrote:

Yeah, just ignore the Quant graphs showing Low/High as the Isk destruction center of Eve, and the DotLan numbers proving that less than 30% of destruction happens in Null but 40% of the NPCs in the game are killed there.

Wanna talk about deflection... look, I get that you're some world famous author of psychological relationship books, but your forum psychoanalysis babble is the ultimate in "I don't have a real rebuttal-fu"

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Jenn aSide

Soul Machines

The Initiative.

Likes received: 16,192

#2512 - 2015-11-06 16:25:48 UTC

Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Jenn aSide wrote:

I'm not the one grasping at straws and lying about a video game. If you don't want to be psychoanalyzed, try appearing less psycho lol.

And all of a sudden, low sec gets added? So rather than admit you were wrong, you add low sec to you calculations? Dude,you got you some serious issue there. One of those issues is that you keep proving other people points, such as the fact that last time CCP told us anything abotu population they said something like 11% of characters were in null...

...Which means that even if what you said about 30% was true, it means that isk value is disproportionately destroyed in null, where as high sec (with more than 70% of characters but less than 70% of isk value destroyed) is measurably safer than null...By.you.own.metrics.

And I'll say again, you're aware that you are lying about a video game right?

I'm going to stop here. See, almost everyone that reads this thread can see where you're wrong, it's been pointed out to you time and time and time again (here and in the missions forum). You aren't going to be convinced and further embarrassing you (while honestly enjoyable, I LOVE watching dishonest people explode) isn't going to change anything.

You're just going to have to be perpetually unhappy with everything having to do with EVE and CCP (oddly enough, this won't stop you from paying them) while you live in the misery of knowing that many of the rest of us don't share your hatred.

Lan Wang

Princess Aiko Hold My Hand

Safety. Net

Likes received: 4,111

#2513 - 2015-11-06 17:33:21 UTC

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

So tell me guys... what you gonna do when EVE goes free to play?

find another game that doesnt cater to little kids with the parents credit card

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

It's All About Me 11,530
Mr Epeen It's All About Me Likes received: 11,530	#2514 - 2015-11-06 18:51:36 UTC Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: So tell me guys... what you gonna do when EVE goes free to play? My guess. A threadnaught of people threatening to quit but never actually doing it. AKA, the usual for this crowd. Mr Epeen

Lieu Thiesant

University of Caille

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 18

#2515 - 2015-11-06 18:58:08 UTC

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

So according to CCP Quant, the game is fine because they have 14,000 players online less but the remaining ones play more.

Which means that subscriptions are secondary to people doing stuff ingame.

Which means that charging people for what they do could be an alternative to subscriptions.

Of course, they would need a massive hardware to run such a game, with no entry barrier in the form of a subscription and thus a lot more population. A whole new Tranquility with power unseen before. With optimized code to avoid that certain routine tasks associated to players tax on system performance.

So tell me guys... what you gonna do when EVE goes free to play?

Sounds good to me, and it is an "valid" answer to the question:
Is it worthwhile to get more players ingame?

and
Perhaps more players doesn't mean better.

Also,
the quality of those players is related.
And in this case, it could be that ,
Additionally, players can also be complementing each others better than before.
This could reduce the needs for multi-clients, and allow more quality time over less account and better accounts .

By the way, not only do I not know how Citadel works after the last EVE Vegas, despite watching the video or videos on that, but I also didn't know about the POS and how they work, what they need to work and so on , before the change.

I was about to get a Control Tower, which I still wonder if it is a POS, no matter what people say.
I wonder if the Control Tower cost is 900m or less and I'm quite sure that a small citadel is 600m.
However, I forgot the running costs and the requirements to install the citadels.

After a quick verification, I find that the Small Control Towers are under 100m , at around 80m ISK or less.
That is more than 7.5 less in ISK costs, though I am not sure of the other costs.
I would also have to include the cost to update the actual information to my knowledge and later, to my understanding.


Lieu Thiesant University of Caille Gallente Federation Likes received: 18	#2516 - 2015-11-06 18:59:16 UTC Mr Epeen wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: So tell me guys... what you gonna do when EVE goes free to play? My guess. A threadnaught of people threatening to quit but never actually doing it. AKA, the usual for this crowd. Mr Epeen Where is EVE free from? Where is the info that EVE will be free from? Is this an unconfirmed rumor?

The Grand Assembly 3
Exe Om The Grand Assembly Likes received: 3	#2517 - 2015-11-06 19:56:38 UTC 1 I know why numbers diminished.. but not sharing it as I enjoy the current situation.. It is not enough that I succeed, all other must fail

Johan Civire

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,190

#2518 - 2015-11-06 20:23:07 UTC | Edited by: Johan Civire

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Most of those post........ This is clearly person attacks everywhere. Non topics or any other stuff thats even true what here is going on.

People go play eve stop debating. We as users we can do zero. If CCP is lessening and i bet the will the are already on this. How what we don`t know (yet). There are plenty forum threats already with ccp on them talking or trying to fixes eve. This however is not one of those threats.

Commander Spurty

Likes received: 1,687

#2519 - 2015-11-06 20:43:34 UTC

I for one salute CCP for allowing a thread to rage around in circles for "coming up to three months now".

Everyone, undock and shoot something!

This thread all all those that posted in it should "move along now"

There never was and there never will be something to see here

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP

Ministry of War Amarr Empire 24
Veraca Darmazaf Ministry of War Amarr Empire Likes received: 24	#2520 - 2015-11-06 21:46:28 UTC 1 Commander Spurty wrote: There never was and there never will be something to see here There's silly drama and poorly constructed arguments, if that's your thing.