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So, Marlona is just gonna troll without contributing any useful suggestions on here as well as FHC? vOv Cool I guess, whatever floats your boat.

Anyway;



Ehehehehe. Because battleclinic is full of EFT warriors who use rage rockets without a web?





How is that different from now? I fly faction/inties/AFs all the time anyway because they're already better than T1. I only ship down to T1 frigs to fight people looking to learn to pvp or wanting a T1 frig duel and that's for the same reason I don't sit on a station with a sebo'd arty cane alpha-ing things all day; I like a good fight.





...

Which bonus can't these ships really use? The inate shield resist one? The tracking one? The damage one? Oh, you mean the one that makes them viable in null sec solo as well as giving them a distinct role in fleets. Yeh, that's useless I'm sure.

As for slots being akward to fit, there's not many I'd say are massively difficult to fit (wolf still annoys me a little, but got a decent fit going). But then you couldn't fit an active hawk without people EFT-ing for you.

And balance wise, the new top tier AFs like the hawk/harpy/enyo were well known for being overpowered already, it's why you see them everywhere in lowsec. Frankly the rest of the line up isn't far behind them either (except the jag. poor jag).





Strong vs what tho? What are you fighting most of the time in that wolf? I'm gonna go with it probably being other AFs a lot of the time. And those got changed too...





So how is that different from what we have now?

I mean your complaint now is with the extra slots (and even then, you'll live). Why not throw a role bonus on that allows them to be viable in null sec and from the point of view of lowsec is ~the same~ as not having a role bonus.

Then they're viable ships in both environments, you have in effect got what you want and everyone is happy.

Tawa, flame me all you want, call me bad, insult my fits, whatever makes you feel better.

It has NOTHING to do with the task on hand however, and that is balancing assault frigs.

Everyone seems to agree that AFs aren't used in null sec, and why is that a bad thing? hics aren't used in high sec, I don't see anyone complaining they need a role bonus to make them useful there.

The focus should be on improving the ship for the majority of users not trying to create more users in a niche role that is already filled by interceptors. The fact of the matter is Assault frigates are used primarily in low sec because they are quick enough to usually avoid things one does not want to fight, while still having enough punch to take out many cruisers and other AFs. Thus if you want to improve these ships, improve them in a way that enhances their current role, do not invent a role you think they should fill and try to turn them into a different type of ship.

And this post will, as my others have, be various flavors of ignored and flamed. Keep your posts on topic please, personal insults get us nowhere.

edit: apparently I can't math

You do know that he's one of the most well-known solo frigate pilots in the game, right?

Actually, I do too.


Since the forums just ate my monster post (wherein I reply point by point to Prom and Tawa)

Short version:


Prom: I agree with much of what you said. (And Tawa too for that matter.) However:

I believe the current proposed buffs (excluding MWD changes) are overpowered.

I disagree that a Rifter today cannot take on a competent AF and win.

I believe that with the proposed changes, T1 frigates will have zero chance against even poorly flown AF's. I believe this will not enrich target opportunities in lowsec.

I fear that with the proposed changes AF's simply become the new Dramiel.


But, Ava makes a great point. I can always be that archaic, weirdo pilot. Perhaps they'll tell stories about me. "Hey kids, if you go to the dark belts of lowsec, and if the moon is right, you might be lucky enough to encounter the fabled Rifter pilot, haunting the dark asteroid fields forever searching for another T1 frigate to fight. His kind passed away long ago, but he never moved on. Oh.. and don't fly an AF... you'll scare him away."

It's either that or throw away all my T1 frigs, which in spite of being able to fly other craft, I enjoy.

@Plutonian
I dunno man, you're guaranteed that there will always be that one type of person who nanos everything.
And that person will be shredded by a competent T1 pilot

AFs would never become the new Dramiel because they don't have anything that Dramiels had.
Even in regard to AFs new advantages, they are still countered pretty simply.

I killed an Enyo & Wolf 2v1 with a Bellicose today. Can't explain that!

So you're *complaining* about a fix to the "not much AFs in nullsec" problem? lol

As it is, AFs are quite widely used in 0.0 by people in "safe" positions, I.E. Sov holders camping about or trying hardcore "solo" in their home systems, but yes, not very widely used by people who need to evade said gangs. I'm fairly certain a change like this would bring a lot of soloers and small gang roamers in to the mix of 0.0 AF users which would be good, no?

No, I'm saying that as there aren't many AFs in null, wouldn't it be better to focus them towards the places and people who actually use them, rather than trying to make them do something completely different? I can see the benefits of having more people flying them, but I expect most people will try them for a week or so, decide they are too fragile, and go back to their drakes, apart from the occasional person who's gotten bored of interceptors and wants to try something different.

This leaves us with the same people who were usually flying them, only now no one but other assault ship pilots will engage, because they are so much stronger than the faction frigates who are currently often an equal match. Smaller target range = bad thing.

@Marian
First things first, tracking disruption is percentage based.
It would basically be getting the same tracking as Enyos have had for ages, and nobody complains about that.
Any ships tracking disrupting you will give you a hard time, don't underestimate those things

Secondly, Destroyers a counters to AFs. They aren't foolproof, but as part of a gang, they are an incredibly cheap and effective way to remove frigates from the field. This includes AFs.

Lastly, the MWD bonus means you can now enter 00 for solo/fleet/roam/camp/whatever, and actually fly about without getting one shotted by the first person you try to get in attack range of. If means if you jump into a small gate camp you don't spend the next 30 seconds figuring out where to warp your pod off to. Currently, flying AFs anywhere that is camped, lived in, or bubbled is writing your own death sentence. T1 frigates can manage because they are fast, AFs are not but they are just as fat.

How many null sec players do you realistically think are going to fly them, for more then just the "ooh somethings been changed, lets go have a look" phase? As in, long term.