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[December] Module Tiericide - Warp Disruption Field Generators

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Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#81 - 2015-11-05 15:46:51 UTC
Really nice buff to HICs and definitely a meta-shaker!
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#82 - 2015-11-05 15:49:32 UTC
Galdur Trudaihnel wrote:
Did CCP just completely destroy solo and small gang pvp as we know it ... yes, yes they did. I mean come on are you kidding me,? this has to be a joke right ?


That's funny, I have been flying a brawling Broadsword in small gangs for quite a while now. CCP just made it better. Yay!

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#83 - 2015-11-05 15:54:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
Fredric Wolf wrote:
I am still upset with the tiericide project because all meta modules are better then base T1 mods. I do know know why these were made without trade offs to keep the base mod as a viable item. Why would I ever use a T1 when the compact is better in every single way?


Meta 0 are for noobs and building T2.

CONCORD base range = 21km. 21 x 1.5 x 1.25 = 39.375km scram range. Sanshas and CONCORD LP stores about to get destroyed.

edit: To clarify, this is a very exciting change. I'm kinda stoked!

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
CCP Larrikin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#84 - 2015-11-05 15:57:21 UTC
Suitonia wrote:
A separate script that has reduced range (Maybe 40% of normal) would probably make this a bit more balanced. 37.5km Scrams on T2 HIC is incredibly powerful, and actually stronger than best faction linked heating Lachesis, obviously HICs can't get reps like a Lach can but they still have huge buffers and they will be incredibly problematic for small gangs, especially those without links.


Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range.

Game Designer | Team Phenomenon | https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#85 - 2015-11-05 15:57:26 UTC
TehEbil1 wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
and on-one thinks arazu/lachesis point range bonuses are OP? ... really?? ShockedShocked



Arazu/Lachesis dont achieve multi-hundred thousand ehp's


not really the point, but you can at least actually rep them and have multiple points

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#86 - 2015-11-05 15:57:52 UTC
Beidorion eldwardan wrote:
i love the scram part.

please let us keep the range as well


For the purpose of feedback to CCP, I to would like to state that I like the long range scram script concept being purposed. So tally my opinion as pro long range scram.
Yin Zheng
Blumenkranz Academy
#87 - 2015-11-05 15:59:10 UTC
Good job murdering solo pvp and forcing small gangs to bring rooks.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#88 - 2015-11-05 15:59:22 UTC
TehEbil1 wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
and on-one thinks arazu/lachesis point range bonuses are OP? ... really?? ShockedShocked



Arazu/Lachesis dont achieve multi-hundred thousand ehp's


Multi-hundred thousand EHP's? On a HIC? What are you smoking? You cannot do that unless you have an immobile brick and even then it is hardly "multi-hundred."

A Devoter, without bonuses, maxes out under 200k EHP with T2 fit (and has no weapons at all). A Phobos is around 170k (again with no weapons).

And, no, Harvey James, Arazu/Lachesis point ranges are not OP.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2015-11-05 16:03:12 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Suitonia wrote:
A separate script that has reduced range (Maybe 40% of normal) would probably make this a bit more balanced. 37.5km Scrams on T2 HIC is incredibly powerful, and actually stronger than best faction linked heating Lachesis, obviously HICs can't get reps like a Lach can but they still have huge buffers and they will be incredibly problematic for small gangs, especially those without links.


Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range.



Can you mess with cycle times in the meta variations so that overheating and general use has a little more depth?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#90 - 2015-11-05 16:07:04 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Suitonia wrote:
A separate script that has reduced range (Maybe 40% of normal) would probably make this a bit more balanced. 37.5km Scrams on T2 HIC is incredibly powerful, and actually stronger than best faction linked heating Lachesis, obviously HICs can't get reps like a Lach can but they still have huge buffers and they will be incredibly problematic for small gangs, especially those without links.


Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range.


but were telling you its OP, can you really not see that or listen too us.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Yin Zheng
Blumenkranz Academy
#91 - 2015-11-05 16:13:26 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range.

Introduce the scrambling script with a really short range, buff it if it sucks too much. It would be much more logical than adding something outright broken and then trying to fix it.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#92 - 2015-11-05 16:14:25 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Suitonia wrote:
A separate script that has reduced range (Maybe 40% of normal) would probably make this a bit more balanced. 37.5km Scrams on T2 HIC is incredibly powerful, and actually stronger than best faction linked heating Lachesis, obviously HICs can't get reps like a Lach can but they still have huge buffers and they will be incredibly problematic for small gangs, especially those without links.


Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range.


but were telling you its OP, can you really not see that or listen too us.

Data observed over time beats the kneejerk reactions of a handful of eveo forums posters any day.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#93 - 2015-11-05 16:14:48 UTC
Yin Zheng wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range.

Introduce the scrambling script with a really short range, buff it if it sucks too much. It would be much more logical than adding something outright broken and then trying to fix it.


you would think so, it seems too be the CCP way though. usually too much buff and not enough nerf

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
big miker
Frogleap Factories
#94 - 2015-11-05 16:15:11 UTC
Wow, just wow

Giving a 200k EHP boat a 30+ ( 37.5 ) km scrambler? Like Suitonia said, make it a script with LESS range.
If you want long range scramblers fly a Lachesis or Arazu or anything else with a scrambler range bonus, which are more balanced since they can't get very high EHP levels.

Latest video: Ferocious 9.0 - Vertical Supremacy

Nano Naglfar!
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#95 - 2015-11-05 16:15:15 UTC
TehEbil1 wrote:
Khador Vess wrote:
Galdur Trudaihnel wrote:
Not really how can a solo pvper / small gang roam null with the 'current meta' taking those changes into account. All the blob needs to do is stick one of these either side of a gate and your screwed . There is no way you are pulling off gate and fighting in a shield kite MWD setup that is commonly used today and there is also no way you can crash the gate either.

There are ways round it but the meta will have to adjust (im thinking AB's/ more brawling setups), but it will definitely destroy a lot of small gang setups as we know them. As for solo... with no kiting or MJD you are limited to using AB's for mobility around gates.


They can do the exact same thing with an arazu. Without links its still a 27km scram. Hics also have speed penalties when running the generators so they cant chase after you if you are dual prop.



Except it doesn't have speed penalties when you have the focused script in, which allows you to scram things


the arazu will probably die faster than the average hic
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#96 - 2015-11-05 16:15:33 UTC
Querns wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Suitonia wrote:
A separate script that has reduced range (Maybe 40% of normal) would probably make this a bit more balanced. 37.5km Scrams on T2 HIC is incredibly powerful, and actually stronger than best faction linked heating Lachesis, obviously HICs can't get reps like a Lach can but they still have huge buffers and they will be incredibly problematic for small gangs, especially those without links.


Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range.


but were telling you its OP, can you really not see that or listen too us.

Data observed over time beats the kneejerk reactions of a handful of eveo forums posters any day.


yeah, but we also told them them the T3 dessies would be OP on release..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
5pitf1re
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2015-11-05 16:16:16 UTC  |  Edited by: 5pitf1re
Galdur Trudaihnel wrote:
Not really how can a solo pvper / small gang roam null with the 'current meta' taking those changes into account. All the blob needs to do is stick one of these either side of a gate and your screwed . There is no way you are pulling off gate and fighting in a shield kite MWD setup that is commonly used today and there is also no way you can crash the gate either.

There are ways round it but the meta will have to adjust (im thinking AB's/ more brawling setups), but it will definitely destroy a lot of small gang setups as we know them. As for solo... with no kiting or MJD you are limited to using AB's for mobility around gates.


I can already ruin your day in a linked resebo'd Vigilant and I won't care about your ABs at all, I'll scram you out to 16.7km and 90% dual web you at 17.7km. You won't go anywhere while I alone will pound you with around 460 DPS.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2015-11-05 16:18:39 UTC
big miker wrote:
Wow, just wow

Giving a 200k EHP boat a 30+ ( 37.5 ) km scrambler? Like Suitonia said, make it a script with LESS range.
If you want long range scramblers fly a Lachesis or Arazu or anything else with a scrambler range bonus, which are more balanced since they can't get very high EHP levels.



Proteus isn't a kick in the tail off this either. They're not exactly high on peoples broken list (for that reason, at least).

And it can do it whilst bringing like...850 DPS with it.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#99 - 2015-11-05 16:18:56 UTC
5pitf1re wrote:
Galdur Trudaihnel wrote:
Not really how can a solo pvper / small gang roam null with the 'current meta' taking those changes into account. All the blob needs to do is stick one of these either side of a gate and your screwed . There is no way you are pulling off gate and fighting in a shield kite MWD setup that is commonly used today and there is also no way you can crash the gate either.

There are ways round it but the meta will have to adjust (im thinking AB's/ more brawling setups), but it will definitely destroy a lot of small gang setups as we know them. As for solo... with no kiting or MJD you are limited to using AB's for mobility around gates.


I can already ruin your day in a linked resebo'd Vigilant and I won't care about your ABs at all, I'll scram you out to 16.7km and 90% dual web you at 17.7km. You won't go anywhere.


i still can't believe they allowed 90% webs on serpentis Roll

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Odris Meza
Wingman Wielding Goose
Safety.
#100 - 2015-11-05 16:24:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Odris Meza
FT Diomedes wrote:
TehEbil1 wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
and on-one thinks arazu/lachesis point range bonuses are OP? ... really?? ShockedShocked



Arazu/Lachesis dont achieve multi-hundred thousand ehp's


Multi-hundred thousand EHP's? On a HIC? What are you smoking? You cannot do that unless you have an immobile brick and even then it is hardly "multi-hundred."

A Devoter, without bonuses, maxes out under 200k EHP with T2 fit (and has no weapons at all). A Phobos is around 170k (again with no weapons).

And, no, Harvey James, Arazu/Lachesis point ranges are not OP.

http://clip2net.com/s/3pTzRz9
180k EHP even w/o slave or bonuses is enough to tank about 5 ppl at HACs or 3-4 BSH, who cant get to close range btw, to do their dps for min or two.

Are you dont see it's really imba, if we look from solo/small scale pvp and not from capital ship 1000 local balance?
Why? Ok i say why:
1). 36km scram is better range than overloaded FACTION scram with links at lachestis/arazu. Which dont have so much hp and resistances for logistics.
2). The same ship can use buble active to stop even frig/destro/cruiser size ships. Ok lets say he dont get enough scan res to lock frig/destro but 100% have even with one SB to lock cruiser.
3). Ok lets look about BC/BSH: solo or small number of these will be punished almost w/o chances to escape, you can try to focus devoter/phobos with 150k EHP. OK SO WHAT? Cyno/blob will kill you. The only thing BSH(not BC) can do is heavy neut him and hoping for escape(ofc not an idiot will have capbooster at Hictor), oh wait heavy neut range is 25 faction 29.4 and scram from Hictor is 36km! So battlecruiser is useless trash who cant reach 36 km range(only t3 can do this well, even new faction BC do rly bad dps at 36km range) and cant move if dont fit oversized 100mn AB.
4). So any of low/null sec camp or homedefence got free buble + lachestis with bonuses, in same ship and alot of EHP. Anytime it's can be saved with any of logistics/triage/blob coz you cant kill this **** really fast, and you are scrambled near gate. 6 second cycle of generator with script, 4 if OH.
I cant call of this crap as "balance".

New Script with about 15 km range is good idea, 36km it's omgwtfbbq. Also it's possible to work as scram only vs Capitals if you want this to work well against them. Dont kill nonblob PvP pz.

Ok np if this will be relised like this i will undock on my phantasm but not machariel/tempest or any of HAC's/BCs Ugh maybe Armageddon can hangle this, but none else.