Wormholes

Given CCP devs have already stated that wormhole PvE escalations in particular are changing and there will be some time a Devblog about it then hopefully yes we will see an end to that god awful method of PvE.

http://www.lowseclifestyle.com/2015/10/eve-vegas-2015-capital-round-table.html
From sugar kyle's blog it seems the question has already been put up in eve vegas.
The answer was that they had plans in the works... .

Personaly i don't see any use for a dread with only 2k damage on subcaps.
Yes it tanks a lot, but other then using to bait there is absolutly no use for dreads with only 2k damage to subcaps.
It is useless in pve and pvp.
And yet they were fun to catch and destroy... .

You are not the first to notice it:
http://foo-eve.blogspot.be/2015/10/capital-escalations-are-dead-long-live.html

unless they make the damage pitiful or the tracking absurdly low it won't matter and if they do either of those then dreads will become a bit of a joke, like not being able to hit moving capitals and ****. you might be required to get a moros for it after the change maybe.


or they might **** with the sig radius/weapon thing and make it so you just can't hit subaps and then it will be ******

sure, except things like shooting structures and other caps.
you know, the things theyre MEANT to be used for?

Caps and structure shooting doesn 't change so no complaints about that
I just don't see a use for the dread subcaps guns if they only give 2k dps on subcaps.
The 2k dps is not usefull for cap escalations or other pve, and i don't see the use in pvp other then baiting.
And even if they change cap escalations ,why would you use a dread in pve if you can make do with 2 battleships?
The fact that they will be less(or not) used in pve and pvp means that the occasions to kill them will decrease significaly.
Even in pvp it would be more wise to use cheaper faster battleships to kill subcaps, in case things go wrong .

Now what would make it more interesting is the subcaps guns doing 2k dps on 5 targets at once.

After the proposed changes, it sounds like dreads will only have a place in wormhole PVE if CCP add sleeper capital ships to sites.

Since a lot of people in wormhole space trained dreads to use in PVE, if dreads suddenly become useless, ccp should reimburse all dread related sp IMO.

Unimatrix i don't think you understand the risk for reward in escalations

Sleepless Guardian
Warp Scrambling (100%, 40,000 m)
Energy Vampire (100%, 36.0 GJ/s, 40,000 m)
Webbing (100%, 40,000 m)
Immune to offensive modifiers
694 Omni DPS focused more to EXP/KIN Slightly

An escalation spawns 6/8/8/8

so point is The capitals spawn them and gives roughly 600m-900mish depending if you do salvage you can probably crank out 2 dreads worth in a efficient hour

considering a battleship in these sites cant move and are perma pointed and cant MJD. Dps also extremely overwhelming without Logi and well what battleship(s) has/have +288GJ/s and can also tank 5500 DPS+ even dreadnoughts should just die but in escals you play the position of I will kill you before you kill me.

not to mention they tank a lot usually like takes 3 20-30k Volleys from a Moros and in any marauder or cap chain setup which would completely lack DPS unless huge numbers... but now you've lost the point, it is to complete these sites as quick as possible risking 5b dreadnoughts and raking in huge for your risk if we are not talking about doing escals with dreads then there is nothing to talk about because incursions isk/hr ratio would easily overshadow c5/c6 sites simply put because WH sites once ran down through there regular spawns despawn... unlike WH's/Missions/Null sites ETC...

Shield: No shields
Armor: 55,000 HP
75 % 75 % 75 % 80 % 25 %
Armor Rep - 880 HP 15 sec 0% 58.67 HP/s
Structure: 27,500 HP
0 % 0 % 0 % 0 % 0 %

Anti structure and and cap guns will still rock against their intended target.


I have done capital escalations in a moros.I know how they work and the fact that the isk/hour is less then incursions because you can not run them continously all day.
But i think you are missing the point that i am making.
They are planning to remove the ability for the current guns(XL guns) to be able to hit subscap(= sleepless guardians).
The want to replace it with other set of guns that can hit subcaps but only do 2k dps in stead of the 10k+ volleys a dread now does with the current guns.
The 2k dps guns will be significant less then the dps now (with XL guns)when webbed and painted(15k dps easy).
So much less that it is not worth using the dread subcap guns in pve and pvp.In the case of capital escalations you bether just warp em in and out at range.

Lets be analytical here for a minute.

Now first off its 5-6 MONTHS not days or weeks before these changes and any speculation on them is precisely that because we know very little about the end plans and the uses for dreadnoughts.

Completing ignoring escalations because you can be guaranteed they will change.

Dreads will be (with current CCP information) be less important in current Wormhole fleet combat (though funnily enough probably better everywhere else) because the 2K DPS mark for the high tracking guns is pretty low for an imobile ship, though since CCP are eyeing up refitting like its the bad stink in the room we could see their survivability getting buffed akin with the new modules and T2 / faction of existing. I do hope they move to around 3-4K DPS, I think 5K might be too much but we'll see.

Hopefully this means there will be less capitals in Wormhole space (Fozzie already condones the amount of capitals I think?) and evictions will be more frequent since the hostile cap fleet is less important. This could also shake up doctrines and introduce more battleships into fleets since apart from the mass issues having to deal with dread blapping could be less important.

I think we should be more looking into will capitals be viable in Wormholes following this change, what about the 'new' carriers guys? They look like potential monsters if what we have seen is anything to go by. The new triage ships for example are roughly the size of existing supers. Maybe that means all capitals are getting their sizes changed but I do hope that these new triage ships are available in W-space and don't have stupidly high mass and can't fit through wormholes. If dreads won't be very effective as fleet support ships outside of killing Citadels and other capitals then will people bother with them?

Nox makes a very good point, almost as skill intensive as a super I would say theirs a few more skills involved but it takes forever for JDC5/Dread5/Guns5/Comps and cap repair you get my point... they are simply not effective enough even in meta today to be worth the training/Archons, SC's, Titans are and have a very distinct purpose which after the changes are all going to have awesome roles.

Now going back to escelations if it was as simple as CCP doesn't want blap dreads in pvp okay then simple make it so while in siege mode you cannot activate weapons on anything Battle cruiser or smaller or battleship or smaller whatever is intended by CCP, Reductions in DPS don't really effect escalations you can crank it down to 8k and the dreads can still manage to complete the sites even though the Moros can crank 15k+ max skilled. As long as this insane damage application is mitigated on CITADELS.... and Sub capitals their is no more issue.

If something like this is done all parties remain happy and dreads are still giant potato km's guaranteed to die.

I would like to say that jezza made a awesome suggestion on carriers why do we need to lower dps on dreads shouldn't we be upping the dps on carriers fighters since we are removing Triage/Slowcat concept with archons and creating Force Aux Caps.

Max DPS Thanny is 3.5k (Triage/Cap Chain/RR/Sentry's) < Max DPS Moros is 15k < Max DPS Nyx (shadows 21K) < Max DPS Erebus 13.5k

Who is really not in the balance here kinda obvious the carrier is OP in force projection and Logi role but with the loss of that its a piece of scrap metal worth 3b fit properly...flawed horrendously, so hopefully they deploy fighters squadrons with mad dps and make them useful..


BACK TO SUBJECT THOUGH

Seems the Dread is the one that is a immobile potato compared to other caps, Poor jump range, lacks dps compared to SC's which cost 25b compared to a 5b Moros so is justifiable, lacks EHP compared to all other classes, and can only project its damage to high sig targets not moving or moving inside transversal....were on the flip side carriers and SC's can hit practically anything bc+ with fighters and with webs and tps probably destroyers easily.

but if the point is to remove their effectiveness from escalations then we will just blob them with 10 carrier alts most groups are probably already theory crafting. Throw wormholer's a bone CCP you cant win this one