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New Ewar resistances question
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Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-11-04 22:46:34 UTC
By adding this resistance in game, is this going to be removing the sensor strength increases, or is ECM going to be double penalized?

Sensor strength only effects ECM, and any pilot can train this, so in a way, they increase their "resistance" to being jammed.

It wasn't mentioned before. This also may only effect caps.. but with sensor integrity bonuses, sensor strengths at 41+, this makes ECM very weak against them.
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#2 - 2015-11-04 23:38:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Rawketsled
Which sensor strength increases?

Be precise.
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#3 - 2015-11-04 23:45:16 UTC
huh is this new? could not find it in topic here and not in patch notes from last patch. I havent been active for a while so i might have missed something.

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#4 - 2015-11-04 23:52:52 UTC
Ellendras Silver wrote:
huh is this new? could not find it in topic here and not in patch notes from last patch. I havent been active for a while so i might have missed something.

It's a proposed thing for the capital rebalance.
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-11-04 23:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Poranius Fisc
Rawketsled wrote:
Which sensor strength increases.

Be precise.


Gravimetric, Magnetometric, ladar and radar compensation each provide a 4% (per level) increase to sensor strength increase to the appropriate ship. Sensor hardening like this reduces the chance to jam with ECM.

So, with a sensor strength at 41 (revelation), this skill in a dread at lvl V would put your sensor strength at 49.3.

Using and ECM White noise generator II in a scorpion with ECM rigs and 4 Signal distrotion Amplifier II's, your max jam strengths at lvl V is ~10.343, which gives you about a 20.9% chance to jam said capitol. This is before said planned Ewar resistances and with no boosts.

WIth two of the same jammers, this would double the jam chance, as long as your carrying to amarr jammers.

So yeah.. as it stands by adding the resistance, ECM would be double hit.

And it doeasn't stipulate if it would only be capitols yet.
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#6 - 2015-11-05 00:03:29 UTC
What about tracking speed, optimal, and falloff?

Training those skills on a capital nerfs TDs.
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-11-05 00:11:10 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:
What about tracking speed, optimal, and falloff?

Training those skills on a capital nerfs TDs.


Those are also required to fit the weapons. You dont have to train sensor compensation to fly the ship.
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#8 - 2015-11-05 00:39:48 UTC
ECMs are not hit any harder than Damps: damps have Signature Analysis and Long Range Targeting as counter-skills.

The gunnery skills for tracking and range are only used in Tracking Computers and Tracking Enhancers. They're not requirements for weapons.

Basically, ECM had it good for a long time, the Compensation skills brought it inline with other ewar. Capital ewar resistance will be for all types of ewar, so ECM isn't getting hurt unfairly - it's like complaining that Capital Armor Plates is a stealth nerf to dps.
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-11-05 00:54:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Poranius Fisc
Rawketsled wrote:
ECMs are not hit any harder than Damps: damps have Signature Analysis and Long Range Targeting as counter-skills.

The gunnery skills for tracking and range are only used in Tracking Computers and Tracking Enhancers. They're not requirements for weapons.

Basically, ECM had it good for a long time, the Compensation skills brought it inline with other ewar. Capital ewar resistance will be for all types of ewar, so ECM isn't getting hurt unfairly - it's like complaining that Capital Armor Plates is a stealth nerf to dps.


None of the other ewar skills are chance based. You are either in optimal or falloff or they don't land. ECM can still fail to jam at 1km.

ECM ships are also undisputed the weakest tank of ships in any class that they sit in. If the latter were not the case, I might understand your point. However.. you can't tank them without either giving up jammers or jam strength. No other ewar suffers from this as much as jamming application.
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#10 - 2015-11-05 02:10:11 UTC
All of which has zero to do with capital ewar resistance.

Just wait for CCP to post some firm numbers before you get your panties in a knot.
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-11-05 02:13:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Poranius Fisc
Rawketsled wrote:
All of which has zero to do with capital ewar resistance.

Just wait for CCP to post some firm numbers before you get your panties in a knot.


That's why I started the question.

This isn't going to effect your high sec kills at all.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2015-11-05 10:26:22 UTC
He makes an excellent point. A blanket EWAR resistance will likely affect ECM more than tracking disruption and sensor dampening, because capital ships have a high sensor strength. It may be reasonable to lower their sensor strength a bit when rolling out the change.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#13 - 2015-11-05 10:42:17 UTC
The change shouldn't affect ECM the most strongly. In fact, ECM might be better off after the changes.

ECM isn't affected by stacking penalties. Sensor dampeners, tracking disruptors, et cetera, are. The added resistance of capital ships means you'll need more modules targeting them for the same effect, thus stacking penalties become even more relevant. ECM will be able to make up for the increased resistance by doubling the amount of ECM used. Other forms of e-war will not.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-11-05 20:36:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Poranius Fisc
Felsusguy wrote:
The change shouldn't affect ECM the most strongly. In fact, ECM might be better off after the changes.

ECM isn't affected by stacking penalties. Sensor dampeners, tracking disruptors, et cetera, are. The added resistance of capital ships means you'll need more modules targeting them for the same effect, thus stacking penalties become even more relevant. ECM will be able to make up for the increased resistance by doubling the amount of ECM used. Other forms of e-war will not.


Most of the time I am out in a jamming ship, I have a rainbow fit. If your in a roam, you probably wont have time to swap out to one type of jammer. In home defense, this obviously is not an issue. However: I gave an example of the middling sensor strengths on a dread.

An Archon's sensor strength is 72. Before compensation. That's roughly a 11% chance to jam.

With 6.. at best, you can get it to 66%. WHich is junk for jamming. before upcomming capitol ewar resistace
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#15 - 2015-11-06 02:34:38 UTC
Poranius Fisc wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
The change shouldn't affect ECM the most strongly. In fact, ECM might be better off after the changes.

ECM isn't affected by stacking penalties. Sensor dampeners, tracking disruptors, et cetera, are. The added resistance of capital ships means you'll need more modules targeting them for the same effect, thus stacking penalties become even more relevant. ECM will be able to make up for the increased resistance by doubling the amount of ECM used. Other forms of e-war will not.


Most of the time I am out in a jamming ship, I have a rainbow fit. If your in a roam, you probably wont have time to swap out to one type of jammer. In home defense, this obviously is not an issue. However: I gave an example of the middling sensor strengths on a dread.

An Archon's sensor strength is 72. Before compensation. That's roughly a 11% chance to jam.

With 6.. at best, you can get it to 66%. WHich is junk for jamming. before upcomming capitol ewar resistace

Which doesn't change the fact that ECM is not being any more affected than other forms of e-war.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2015-11-09 06:04:17 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Poranius Fisc wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
The change shouldn't affect ECM the most strongly. In fact, ECM might be better off after the changes.

ECM isn't affected by stacking penalties. Sensor dampeners, tracking disruptors, et cetera, are. The added resistance of capital ships means you'll need more modules targeting them for the same effect, thus stacking penalties become even more relevant. ECM will be able to make up for the increased resistance by doubling the amount of ECM used. Other forms of e-war will not.


Most of the time I am out in a jamming ship, I have a rainbow fit. If your in a roam, you probably wont have time to swap out to one type of jammer. In home defense, this obviously is not an issue. However: I gave an example of the middling sensor strengths on a dread.

An Archon's sensor strength is 72. Before compensation. That's roughly a 11% chance to jam.

With 6.. at best, you can get it to 66%. WHich is junk for jamming. before upcomming capitol ewar resistace

Which doesn't change the fact that ECM is not being any more affected than other forms of e-war.

Do you even Jam bro?
Feather Storm
Tindalosian Trading Consortium
#17 - 2015-11-09 06:59:09 UTC
you do realize you are complaining about your chance to jam something that was unaffected by e-war before the proposed changes

Things change you adapt or you whine.

[u]Please note[/u]: Whining will alert the nearest predator resulting in death and the continuation of the EVE-olutionary process.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#18 - 2015-11-09 07:10:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Poranius Fisc wrote:
Rawketsled wrote:
Which sensor strength increases.

Be precise.


Gravimetric, Magnetometric, ladar and radar compensation each provide a 4% (per level) increase to sensor strength increase to the appropriate ship. Sensor hardening like this reduces the chance to jam with ECM.

You forget that the sensor strength was nerfed before CCP introduced these skills. The skills bring you back to the pre-nerf level of sensor strength at IV and above the pre-nerf level at V. I do not see why anything should be changed in that category.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#19 - 2015-11-09 08:14:02 UTC
Feather Storm wrote:
you do realize you are complaining about your chance to jam something that was unaffected by e-war before the proposed changes


I echo this point.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2015-11-09 20:46:13 UTC
Amarisen Gream wrote:
Feather Storm wrote:
you do realize you are complaining about your chance to jam something that was unaffected by e-war before the proposed changes


I echo this point.

I asked a question. than you all started posting.

it's an upcoming feature and idea so I am posting about it.

I understand all you non ECM pilots would love for ECM to be totally broken as opposed to partially (seriously, a Scorpion should be able to permajam a T1 cruiser). but no one else is starting a thread on any ewar yet. so if you do Ewar, maybe you ought to look at how this might affect those other kinds of ewar, that will still work.

As ECM currently stands, if you have a 11% future possible chance to jam and it than become 50% less.. thats 5.5% chance to work. While your modules have stacking penalties, you also have a tank, and any ECM ship that can jam worthwile, primarily focuses on a single plate (except some T2 fits which can put some tank on). so, with jamming primarily being your tank (which obviously leave you wide open to drone boats and being in the logi category as a non solo ship.)

But the other e-war will obviously work..

Post your pre-post nerf info. did this affect capitols?

you bring up a good point though. removing it would affect cruiser and above. dessies and frigates? not so much.. maybe at the frig gang vs frig gang level... in t1 hulls.
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