Player Features and Ideas Discussion

After several years of nerfs to hisec already there has not been a big increase in retained subs. Thus the assumption that making hisec safer increases player retention is false.

One could further argue that it's the disconnect, the bait-and-switch marketing of 'big spaceship battles' where new players see a dank PVP, BR-5 or 'This is EvE' videos, only to then be landed in hisec and put on a pve hamster wheel -- is what actually causes many trials not to convert to long term subs.

CCP was bold with nullsec changes, time to be bold with hisec.

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If you're speaking in context of pvp hurts subscriptions, that argument has no merit here.

The stats they brought up are specific to ganking.

Wardecs are NOT considered ganking, thus his numbers aren't relevant in this discussion.

That said, even if they determine that wardecs are not responsible for sub loss (which I would strongly believe they muddled the results as I know of many toons that are now inactive as a result of the war mechanics), the results would definitively prove that players stay and/or move back to NPC corps as a result of the wardec mechanic.
HOWEVER, they cannot say one without the other.
They have shown that lack of social involvement is a strong cause of sub loss. NPC corps are less social (by a lot), thus staying and/or moving back to an NPC corp as a result of wardecs, would lead to less social involvement, thus sub loss.

And you're confusing going with whatever comes up when bladder contents hit your skull interior with thought.
There is no other way anyone would cry so much about nerfing everyone but him. Especially so after it actually been happening for years.

Now for the actual part: Nerfing NPC corps (as if they are viable at the moment, lol) will just create more one man expendable corps. The only remotely profitable activity left in hisec is incursion running, and it bleeds 10 mil per hour in tax from just staying in NPC corp. 2 mil fee for player corp every 24 hours to avoid war dec is already cheaper, so NPC corps are actually irrelevant to everyone except pussycats who are afraid of anyone who managed to grow over one foot tall.

Not relevant. The people who are determined to be anti social will always find some way to justify their behavior. The opportunities for those who don't have such a maladjusted attitude should not be hampered by those people any longer.

[edit: Oh, and Joe? Knock off your bullshit strawman crap already. You three have already brought the mods down on this thread because you can't manage to act like good posters.

Mostly how NPC corps are qualitatively superior options to player corps. The only reason to be in a player corp right now is to have a banner and the dubious honor of using a POS.

NPC corps are the clearly superior option, and that hampers people who would otherwise be in player corps. Thus, they should be hammered down until player corps are the superior option, to incentivize player interaction.

Ideally, NPC corps would not exist at all.

All right, for one time I will try to reason with you.
Why NPC corp is bad? It has tax and it doesn't have the bloody necessary POS modules available.
Tax makes it less viable for mission runners - within ONE hour of missioning they bleed more than a corp creation fee.
Lack of POS makes it impossible for miners - without compression arrays, hauling ORE is not feasible. It was never hauled before - it was reprocessed and then production-compressed into things. In the corner case a freighter full of minerals (400-600 mil ISK full load with 3 cargohold expanders, completely unviable with bulkkeads) is brought to trade hub. Now, with production compression being gone, and hisec reprocessing also being gone (20% inferior to null is as good as non-existent), the only way to stay viable is having a compression array, even if you put it up for 1 hour a week and run freighters and freighters of raw ore to it from the station your miners unloaded onto. Without it, your industry won't work at all. Solution: One-man POS operator corp... which is a scenario we're trying to avoid here, one-man corps, no?
Lack of POS also makes it bad for industrials, because assembly time, because labs, because cost. It doesn't make it impossible, it does make it unviable.


Player corps are already the vastly superior option, and everyone who wants to be in a player corp - can be in a player corp - thanks to the removal of the free corp aggro hack.
I've yet to hear from you, what exactly makes NPC corps superior?
Against a wardec, is there any difference if player is dropping to NPC corp or joins the other player corp?
Tax makes being player corp worth more than NPC corp in every taxable occupation.
Lack of POS makes player corp worth more in every industrial occupation.
So why should NPC corps, which are irrelevant as of now, be nerfed? What would change if I move this alt to a one-man corp? Wardec it all you want, nothing.


Because... ?

That argument will only make him repeat for the 1001th time "One more nerf to defender and it will be fine".
He sincerely believes that a defender has a full deck in a war dec situation despite having only one card to play - call in useless irrelevant allies who will do nothing but make a scary face, making the attacking pussycat scared into searching for free kills elsewhere, after it almost tasted them when pressing that war dec button.

I figured I would elaborate on this point, as you will likely argue "NAA UUH".


Why do people stay in NPC corps?

This is primarily for two reasons.

1) They're antisocial. They don't want to interact with other players. This is fine. They will occasionally be forced into interaction through ganks, theft, and whatever other shenanigans happen, but that's fine.

2) To avoid wardec mechanics.


They're not avoiding wardec mechanics because they're so heavily in their favor.

Let's look at some other aspects of Eve, and see if players would stay in NPC corps as a result of these mechanics.

Ganking - Hmm... No, ganking can happen to anyone, regardless of corp.

Low sec - Why would somewhere you don't have to go force you to stay in an NPC corp?

Null - See low

WH - See null

POS mechanics - You can't even have a POS in NPC corps, so how would this be a factor?

Station Trading - You don't even have to undock, so this doesn't matter...

Voice Comms - Uhh, no one uses the in-game voice mechanics, so this is likely a non-factor.

Awoxing - Well, this has essentially been removed (more or less) so it's a non-factor.

Mining - How is being in an NPC corp any better for miners? Oh yeah, because of wardecs...

Missioning - See mining and insert missioners over miners

Incursions - See missioning and insert Incursions

Ratting - See incursions and insert ratters

Exploration - See ratting and insert exploration

Combat sites - See exploration and insert combat site runners

Regional Trading/Hauling - Hey!!! This is the first one on the list in which being in an NPC corp is a better option!! But why is that? Could it be due to wardecs?

Mechanics of player corps - Now, this one does incentivize NPC corps over player corps and not due to wardec mechanics. However, most (if not all) players are aware this is an issue with the corp itself, and not corp mechanics.

Anti-social - Well, this isn't exactly a mechanic of Eve, but whatever. You can be anti-social in a one man corp, so why wouldn't they go that route? Oh right, wardecs... Duh..


Ya know, for the life of me, I can't find a mechanic in which being in an NPC corp is the better option, unless you factor in wardec mechanics...

Holy crap!!! I just discovered the issue!!!
NPC corps must be broken!!! No... wait.... That's not right... that's the solution, not the problem.
I guess it really must be wardec mechanics.

LOL, holy hell dude... Your brain is broken!!!

You want to make changes to NPC corps in order to make it impossible to exist in a NPC corp is incentive, yet then claim that implementing a structure in order to declare war is being forced to babysit!!

What is that actual hell is wrong with you?

The ONLY reason why you would be babysitting the structure is because you're not willing to risk ANYTHING..

You literally want to FORCE players out of NPC corps in order to put more risks upon them, yet then turn around and want 0 risks put upon you!!!

I'm baffled by you at this point. I don't know how YOU can say so many things that contradict each other, and are SO INSANELY and OBVIOUSLY hypocritical, yet continue to talk as if YOUR argument has merit!!!

At this point, I don't think having an argument with you is even worth it, as you don't seem to comprehend where you're COMPLETELY wrong..
I'm basically arguing with a 7 year old at this point.

There's your strawman again.




And yet another.

Either you're damned determined to misrepresent what I'm actually saying, or you just flat out can't read.

Knock off your ranting, knock off your constant strawman crap, or just stop posting entirely.