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Solo Mining-Fleet Profitability

Author
Count Gankula
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-11-02 05:00:33 UTC
Hey, Hello, Wasup

After reading about some guy making 800m an hour using his 12 alts in a mining fleet I decided to create my own, albeit, with a few less alts. Currently the plan is to have an Orca pilot boosting three covetors. I have a few questions regarding my fledgling mining fleet for all of you experienced players who do this kind of thing often.

1. How much isk/hour can I expect to make with my desired setup? Based on my calculations I would need to make around 175M a day in order to buy the plex needed to keep the four accounts active. Right now, using the alts without max skills and an orca boost, I’m able to make the required 175m a day but it takes a REALLY long time. I would have to mine the better part of an afternoon just to meet the minimum amount of isk I need, leaving very little profit left over. How much isk can I expect to generate per hour when my full alts have max skills?

2. Should I focus on one particular ore or should I just clear out the entire belt? Basically should I warp into a spot, suck up the most valuable ore, then move on OR should I just stay at the belt and drain every rock until its gone. I have noticed that a lot of mining fleets will clear out an entire belt before moving on to the next one and I would like to know if this is the most profitable choice out of the two.


3. At what point does my orca become a gank target? I know losing a ship every now and then is just part of being a miner in eve, although usually I spawn concord at the belts where I am to reduce the chances of getting ganked. How much would my orca have to be lugging around before it becomes a viable gank target?

Thanks in advance for the replies!
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#2 - 2015-11-02 05:08:02 UTC
Count Gankula wrote:

3. At what point does my orca become a gank target? I know losing a ship every now and then is just part of being a miner in eve, although usually I spawn concord at the belts where I am to reduce the chances of getting ganked. How much would my orca have to be lugging around before it becomes a viable gank target?


An Orca is a gank target the instant you undock it. So are those Covetors you're planning on using.

I'd suggest you fit your Orca with that in mind and use tanked Procurers rather than Covetors. Your yield will be slightly less, but you'll be a much less attractive target for gank squads.

That said, if MiniLuv or CODE. or some other reasonably organised entity decides your Orca is going down, there's not a lot you can do to stop them beyond being very vigilant, watch Local and D-Scan like a hawk. If local starts spiking and you see numerous Talos or Catalysts on D-Scan = RUN!

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Nex Killer
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2015-11-02 07:11:34 UTC
I'm going to be totally up front with you here... don't mine for isk. If you are looking to make isk do incursions, ded sites, exploration, anything other than mining to make isk for plex or anything else, because trust me it becomes a second job. How do I know this? Because I was a mutliboxing mining for a long time, at my peak I was mining with 32 accounts at once making the isk needed to plex all the accounts -- mind you plex at the time was 800-950M --, plus 5-20B on top of that from mining. What I was mining ice at the time first started with White Glaze and then moved over to Blue Ice because the systems were less crowded and I could mine more ice per hour. If I was paying attention and on the ball I could melt a highsec belt in less than an hour easy. But I quit mutliboxing once they announced the isboxer changes. Now to answer your questions:

1. Find some systems that are close to ice systems, so that you can mine the ice when it is up because its a nice change to mine something different from time to time. I would recommend Everyshore region to mine because it has a total of 15 ice belts and a lot of them are only a jump away from each other and a few systems have more than one belt in them. Don't mine in anything other than a Procurer or Skiff because gankers will most of the time ignore you because of the high EHP, but make sure you fit it right too! For how much you'll make an hour I won't know anymore, but on isk per hour with my old setup its saying about 24.8M an hour.

2. I use to just mine the whole belt out and move to the next one, but that is because I had the luxury with the amount of accounts I had. Nothing like seeing 150 mining drones attack nodes. :D

3. Everything in Eve is a gank target from an Ibis to a Titan and the only thing you can do to protect yourself from getting ganked is to make sure your ships are tanked and not fitted for something like max output or max cargo.

Hope this helped.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#4 - 2015-11-02 10:01:46 UTC
I ran an ice mining fleet in Everyshore last year. With 3 Skiffs and an Orca you can reasonable expect to average 50 million per hour at current pricing (@200K/block for blue ice). That assumes high skill and a station close by to unload - you should be able to get 6 loads per hour/Skiff. Larger fleets will usually include a freighter so they don't need to dock and unload but you need 7 or 8 barges before it becomes worthwhile.

I got bored and moved on to other things.
Gadolf Agalder
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2015-11-02 16:02:33 UTC
Do Little wrote:
I ran an ice mining fleet in Everyshore last year. With 3 Skiffs and an Orca you can reasonable expect to average 50 million per hour at current pricing (@200K/block for blue ice). That assumes high skill and a station close by to unload - you should be able to get 6 loads per hour/Skiff. Larger fleets will usually include a freighter so they don't need to dock and unload but you need 7 or 8 barges before it becomes worthwhile.

I got bored and moved on to other things.

I think I'd say that is more reasonable than a speculated 200m ISK per hour.

Also, does Orca yield more production than a Rorqual?
Nex Killer
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-11-02 17:41:25 UTC
Gadolf Agalder wrote:
Do Little wrote:
I ran an ice mining fleet in Everyshore last year. With 3 Skiffs and an Orca you can reasonable expect to average 50 million per hour at current pricing (@200K/block for blue ice). That assumes high skill and a station close by to unload - you should be able to get 6 loads per hour/Skiff. Larger fleets will usually include a freighter so they don't need to dock and unload but you need 7 or 8 barges before it becomes worthwhile.

I got bored and moved on to other things.

I think I'd say that is more reasonable than a speculated 200m ISK per hour.

Also, does Orca yield more production than a Rorqual?


Rorqual can't be in highsec and it boosts is a lot better than an Orca.
Zifrian
Aideron Robotics
#7 - 2015-11-02 18:52:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
You can use the mining tab on the application in my signature to figure out what your setup will yield based on the ship setups and skills you have (assuming they are all the same). Every different setup will yield different results. Same with your ore choice.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder

Count Gankula
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-11-02 20:58:30 UTC
Zifrian wrote:
You can use the mining tab on the application in my signature to figure out what your setup will yield based on the ship setups and skills you have (assuming they are all the same). Every different setup will yield different results. Same with your ore choice.



Thanks a lot! the program was really helpful!!

Also thanks for all the feedback guys, really appreciate it!
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#9 - 2015-11-02 21:47:50 UTC
You can make isk with a mining fleet, but I don't think using a mining fleet to try to plex your accounts is worth it. Adding miners scales, but almost at the same rate as the cost of an extra plex.

That said, there is a lot of good fleet mining information at this New Eden Mining site. Pay particular attention to the posts in May 2014.

As far as the orca, if you use bulkhead rigs and a DC II your EHP will be so high it is very unlikely that anything less than a 10 man gank squad will bother you. Your covetors on the other hand will be easy prey.

The covetors also require a lot more attention because of the small hold size. I liked to use Procurers and would occassionally use retrievers when I wanted to be semi-afk and there was no danger around. I would use covetors/hulk when I was trying to mine faster than the competition in an ore anomoly.





Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#10 - 2015-11-04 02:09:54 UTC
I have just recently come back to EVE, after a 8-10 month break. Unless I have missed something mining has not changed much.

I have 4 accounts and very often ran a small mining fleet 3 Hulks/macks/Skiffs, depending on situation. With Orca support. Got it down pretty good, and have near max skills and boosts. I was generally able to do well over100M per hour, In a good belt. But that is only say 30-40M per hour, per account. Not so great isk.

I can tell you if you are looking to Plex your accounts, mining is the worst option. There are far better and faster ways to make isk. Mining does have its place, just not as primary income. I generally only mined when I was busy with something else. Multi tasking while working, work on one screen EVE on the other.

Mining can be done semi AFK at times when you can not give the game enough attention to run missions, ratting, or excursions, without dying. Mining is safer, and requires much less focus. But in turn provides a lower income.

For me mining was well worthwhile, as I did it at times when higher isk activities were not an option. When EVE was getting my full focus, missions and ratting were much better options. You would be surprised how quick you could clear and salvage even lvl 5 missions with 4 ships.

There is a point were extra accounts do not add much to ratting as the micro management gets a little to crazy, while mining is fairly easy, even with up to 10 accounts, without programs like isboxer.

There is no way to make big isk in EVE without risk. Adding accounts to multibox for more isk is counter productive if you are looking to PLEX those accounts. Some players can pull it off but it becomes more of a job than an enjoyable game. The biggest isk I have ever made is in trading and playing the market. I have often made over 1 Bil in a single day. However if you are not careful you can just as quickly go broke. The good isk is in the high risk activities, whether it is risking your investment, or risking your ship. Safe activities like mining, are not the answer.

Mining is steady, and safe, if done right, but it is not way to get rich quick. more like a filler activity.

Gadolf Agalder
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2015-11-04 02:23:23 UTC
Someone mined on Twitch with 18 barges and 1 Rorqual near a POS in null-sec.
He logged off stating his GPU as reason as I almost detected the system he was mining in.
He almost mentioned making 700m ISK to 900m ISK per hour mining though I have no records of proof.
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
#12 - 2015-11-04 06:38:11 UTC
Gadolf Agalder wrote:
Someone mined on Twitch with 18 barges and 1 Rorqual near a POS in null-sec.
He logged off stating his GPU as reason as I almost detected the system he was mining in.
He almost mentioned making 700m ISK to 900m ISK per hour mining though I have no records of proof.

I know of two full time null sec miners who are capable of running that fleet solo. Their locations are a well kept secret.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

Eliza Valkyrie
Metal Scrap Recycling
#13 - 2015-11-04 07:30:44 UTC
As has been stated before it is difficult to plex the accounts with mining in high sec space. (I'd assume things might be easier in null.) However it is possible and in order to to it you want to maximize your yield/min. So if you ask me the Hulks are easily the best option as long as you don't lose them. It is the not losing them part that needs more attention than just maximizing your yield as that part is harder. It is doable with some very simple rules.

1. Add known gankers/ganker corporations/alliances to your contacts.
This helps you to notice if someone you don't want to be around enters the system you're mining in.

2. Find a good mining system.
How to find one? It has these requirements:
- as little traveling done (look for jumps done in map/dotlan)
- as little pve/pvp activity as possible
- no npc stations (this alone ensures that there is much less people interested into coming to your system)
- good amount of asteroid belts (preferably 10+ as even if you mine alone in there you actually can run out of asteroids if you mine a lot with multiple accounts as it takes few days for the belts to grow back to a size that makes them worth mining)
- the system should be far enough from trade hubs (5+ jumps can work already but it is easier to find systems that fulfill the other requirements further away)

3. Plant a POS there.
POS provides you a home and a compression array makes your logistics way easier as you will be able to haul your ore much easier. Just keep in mind that 1B in a freighter is a good maximum value when you're hauling your stuff. It is possible to offline your POS when you log off but personally I would use a small tower and keep it permanently running just to keep the added work at minimum. It is only ~100M/month (very rough estimate) which is nothing compared to keeping your fleet plexed.

4. Pay attention to local and d.scan.
The less traffic you see in your new home the easier it is to pay attention to local/d.scan. If there is only one person in addition to you and you see an Astero in d.scan you can calculate 1+1 and relax as he is just doing some exploration. On the other hand if you see him in a Catalyst you might want to fleet warp to the safety of your POS force shield.

5. Fly to safety if a problem might be brewing up.
If you follow my advice and fly yield fitted Hulks it is much better to be safe than sorry. If you picked up your system well then the trouble should not show up too often to be a problem to your income.

6. Keep low profile.
Never tell anyone you're mining. Never post on these forums about mining related stuff on your characters that are involved in your mining ops. Avoid talking to anyone. Never **** off anyone. Stay invisible. I guarantee you that no matter where you mine is going to keep you safe if you tell that you're mining in yield fitted Hulks when logged on as a miner character. The very next time you log on someone is going to use a locator agent and come ruin your day just to prove a point.

A hulk is worth 200M+. You might have implants in your head as well. +5% mining yield implant (iirc) costs another 125M so you might very easily lose ~350M for every lost Hulk. It is not worth it to boast about how you have been mining for 500 hours doing dank ISK and never ever even seeing a Catalyst in system.

7. Go for max yield.
Since with all these things taken care of you can mine in peace... go for the max yield Hulk. Why not a Covetor? Convenience. Hulk has 8.5k ore hold compared to 7k in a Covetor. This is a big deal as 2 full cycles with maxed skills do fit in the ore hold of a Hulk but 2 full cycles will fill the hold of Covetor resulting in a laser turning off. When you mine a lot this makes a big difference. Also Hulks have better capacitor so you won't run out of it if you have to restart some lasers every now and then. (Like maybe you're micromanaging your lasers by manually turning them off when an asteroid is emptied at mid-cycle.) Also the +15% yield is worth it.
Gadolf Agalder
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2015-11-06 18:27:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadolf Agalder
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Gadolf Agalder wrote:
Someone mined on Twitch with 18 barges and 1 Rorqual near a POS in null-sec.
He logged off stating his GPU as reason as I almost detected the system he was mining in.
He almost mentioned making 700m ISK to 900m ISK per hour mining though I have no records of proof.

I know of two full time null sec miners who are capable of running that fleet solo. Their locations are a well kept secret.

That's why I crackled the code, and it popped.

edit
Yeah, that or hire a 1 billion per hour merc fleet.
At least it's cheaper than PL 200b cost.
you might lose some 300m to 100m / ISK per hour, but at least you will be making money

edit 2:
+
wsop
stands for
War Standing Operation Procedure.
Vipre Morte
Team JK
#15 - 2015-11-06 22:00:58 UTC
Eliza Valkyrie wrote:
2 full cycles with maxed skills do fit in the ore hold of a Hulk


Maybe with just max skills alone.

But max skills + implants + Orca boost + T2 equipment & crystals + fitted for yield, and my Hulk-flying alt breaks the 50% mark of his hold per cycle, requiring moving ore around every cycle.
Eliza Valkyrie
Metal Scrap Recycling
#16 - 2015-11-08 10:25:49 UTC
Vipre Morte wrote:
Eliza Valkyrie wrote:
2 full cycles with maxed skills do fit in the ore hold of a Hulk


Maybe with just max skills alone.

But max skills + implants + Orca boost + T2 equipment & crystals + fitted for yield, and my Hulk-flying alt breaks the 50% mark of his hold per cycle, requiring moving ore around every cycle.
I stand corrected then.

Personally I've never used Michi's Excavation Augmentors as they are bit too expensive for my liking. 1.12 B / implant cost means that they start making profit only if you can mine over 22 B / miner until you lose your pod(s). Granted that should never happen so eventually one should be able to break even and after that they are just plain profit. Otherwise I should have had maximized yield with Orca and max yield Hulks.

So... I guess I'll have to rephrase that if you have almost perfect yield 2 cycles will fit into the ore hold of a Hulk.
Prethor Genegod
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2015-11-08 15:43:20 UTC
This really looks like you want to make a job out of EvE. Maybe get a job instead and pay for a single account and do something more enjoyable in EvE?
Just a thought.
Gadolf Agalder
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2015-11-08 16:31:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadolf Agalder
Eliza Valkyrie wrote:
...
3. Plant a POS there.
...

6. Keep low profile.
...
The very next time you log on someone is going to use a locator agent and come ruin your day just to prove a point.

A hulk is worth 200M+. You might have implants in your head as well. +5% mining yield implant (iirc) costs another 125M so you might very easily lose ~350M for every lost Hulk. It is not worth it to boast about how you have been mining for 500 hours doing dank ISK and never ever even seeing a Catalyst in system.

7. Go for max yield.


3.
but please do not try to lose 20m to 600m by losing it.

6.
I keep my low-profile video card, and I save, time, efforts, money and so on.
It still has 2 times the recommended processing power (requirement).

+
Will use methods such as, you don't have to worry about it, because your fleet is so small, no-one will attack you, no one has any use to spy on you like that.
who do you think you are, etc...
and then, use the diversion to backstab you
and to extort you because there is no security included to prevent attacks.

Do keep track of your losses, potential losses, and never fly what you cannot afford to lose , or what is not worth to lose.
Keep a capital balance percentage higher than those risk, and remember that Bans exist.
Other players lie to ccp and cause risk of loss, on top of physical ingame attacks.

b)
those are not the military tribunals you are looking for...
They spy on system with scouts...
who send info to gankers who attack for business & corporation to control economy & try to capture mining resources.
They also use EVE Locator agents, but I am pretty sure that they are slower than scouts eyes in systems.
All it takes is one pilot in a rookie ship which cannot lose anything.
I use that to reach null-sec and Wormhole space as well.


7.
And please, do not lose more because you forget to protect your goals from attacks , and therefore lose more than your max yield.

4.
As for Paying Attention to local and d-scan, just don't fall prey to ISK double schemes or scams.
But when you see a pilot showing up in local, it makes you a valid target, tactically speaking.
You show up on his screen as long as you are logged in , in that system.
Even if you log off, there is a timer, unless you are docked.
d-scan without the player showing in a system with no station may mean that it is cloaked.

Edit:
I'll fix it later, I finally got a better system to type on.

+ Local doesn't work in Wormhole space.
D-Scan does work though.
( Local = Local chat that is. )