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Self-destructing reworked

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Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#81 - 2011-12-14 11:48:42 UTC
+1
Nyssa Litari
Doomheim
#82 - 2011-12-15 01:46:09 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
[quote=CCP Soundwave]It does require some skill to pull off.


Not really, this is the current situation, Dreads in siege, the FC's address book lights up with hostile supers, all dreads initiate self destruct. No actual threat to the dreads ever made it to system in time, but about 35 of them exploded. This actually happened yesterday.

Nyx tackled outside of a POS, by 70 BS and some hics. Instantly initiated self destruct, theres no way short of lagging a system out right now to generate a super killmail as they all simply start the self destruct timer the second they get tackled, since they can no longer fend off tackle.

There is no skill involved in anything I just described, and there is also no record of the ships demise.


Like I said, we don't really need the mail, but the loss SHOULD show at least on the pilot in questions combat record as a loss, and API verifiable loss, if its under fire at the time, the API will record the damage its sustained in its final minutes from other players and or the loss of the ship. In the case of the dreads that died, they would simply show themselves on their own mail.

The notion of a loss-mail going to the pilot recording it as a self-destruct makes sense. No kill-mail, though.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#83 - 2012-01-03 20:51:08 UTC
Issue raised 20th December 2009, a single Dev post saying you should definitely get KMs and it'll be looked into. Two years later nothing?

Seriously?

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Kari Trace
#84 - 2012-01-03 21:27:04 UTC
I agree with Nyssa Litari;
no insurance +1, timed based on class size +1, no loot +1, pilot record shows a self-destruct loose +1
KM shows fit -1.

I like making things explode.

Kari Trace
icometogetyou
Deuterium Oxide
#85 - 2012-01-03 21:31:19 UTC
Great idea. +1
VIP Ares
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2012-01-04 06:44:45 UTC
Absolutely signed.

http://www.balex.info/index.php/pilot_detail/47623/
Banedon Runestar
R3PC0N Tech. Industries
Phoenix Stars
#87 - 2012-01-04 17:27:46 UTC
+1
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2012-01-04 19:29:48 UTC
I disagree with generating a killmail simply on the fact that in order to do so you will have to give credit to someone who didn't "actually" kill anything. The ship self destructed. What I would agree to is increasing the time it takes to self destruct and prevent the self destructing ship from being able to target anything and from using modules to avoid abusing that. Maybe make the self destruct timer based on the ships size. The whole point to self destruct is to deny your enemy the satisfaction of a kill. There is no other point in EvE for self destruct other than that right now. 5 minutes or so on self destruct for capitals (as they are really the only issue here) sounds about reasonable.

I do agree that self destructing ships should NOT pay out insurance.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#89 - 2012-01-04 19:45:49 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
The whole point to self destruct is to deny your enemy the satisfaction of a kill. There is no other point in EvE for self destruct other than that right now. 5 minutes or so on self destruct for capitals (as they are really the only issue here) sounds about reasonable.


- Insurance (rather then reprocessing the ship for materials during times when the mineral basket has fallen below platinum insurance level). But I'm not overly attached to self-destructing ships getting or not getting insurance (as you could just duel someone or have your corp mates blow you up and collect).

- Self-destruction of excess ships inside a w-space pocket where you can't take them out of the hole. Which is faster then burning them down in a duel.

- In the case of a ship which has been tackled far away from the gate, where the attacker is attempting to hold the ship for ransom indefinitely, self-destruct provides a way to get out and go do something else. You're SD'ing, not to deny them the kill mail, but to simply get on with things rather then sit there tackled for a long time.

SD timer based on size makes a reasonable amount of sense (5-10 sec for a pod, going up to 5-10 minutes for a scap/titan).

I don't think it matters much whether or not the SD generates a KM. I think it should, if the ship was aggressed before the SD timer started. Whoever gets the last shot in, gets the KM.
Temba Ronin
#90 - 2012-01-05 02:51:02 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
The whole point to self destruct is to deny your enemy the satisfaction of a kill. There is no other point in EvE for self destruct other than that right now. 5 minutes or so on self destruct for capitals (as they are really the only issue here) sounds about reasonable.


- Insurance (rather then reprocessing the ship for materials during times when the mineral basket has fallen below platinum insurance level). But I'm not overly attached to self-destructing ships getting or not getting insurance (as you could just duel someone or have your corp mates blow you up and collect).

- Self-destruction of excess ships inside a w-space pocket where you can't take them out of the hole. Which is faster then burning them down in a duel.

- In the case of a ship which has been tackled far away from the gate, where the attacker is attempting to hold the ship for ransom indefinitely, self-destruct provides a way to get out and go do something else. You're SD'ing, not to deny them the kill mail, but to simply get on with things rather then sit there tackled for a long time.

SD timer based on size makes a reasonable amount of sense (5-10 sec for a pod, going up to 5-10 minutes for a scap/titan).

I don't think it matters much whether or not the SD generates a KM. I think it should, if the ship was aggressed before the SD timer started. Whoever gets the last shot in, gets the KM.

Hmmm good points made here. I do not think SD should generate a Killmail ..... love those Nullbear tears ..... nice to deny mods cargo & killmails to a ganker. Every gank should not be a guaranteed reward. If the pilot can survive long enough to SD ganker should lose out ....... boo hoo go ahead and cry about it. I agree no insurance payout for SD. SD pilot must lose something for that choice also.

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#91 - 2012-01-05 14:57:56 UTC
Pretty much what I've been saying for a long time.

As for killmails: currently when someone goes GCC and Concord attacks them, the system will generate a killmail for the player who did the most damage to them before Concord did the killing. This makes more sense (and is more consistent) than giving it to the last person to take a shot.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Katie Frost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#92 - 2012-01-05 23:39:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Katie Frost
I don't get the KM hate in this thread. It's a good feature in the game that allows players to review combat situations, check fits; it is useful in recruitment selection and of course the lol-mails for amusement.

If people want to inflate their e-peen through KMs... let them. It's their choice to have their kill-board as their home-page and to hit refresh every time they press F1 in combat so that they can feel good about themselves.

If you don't like KM's... don't post them, don't look at them, add fukung as your home-page.... w/e.

+1 to the OP's proposal.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#93 - 2012-01-06 00:11:39 UTC
Katie Frost wrote:
add fukug as your home-page.... w/e.

Personally I'd recommend lemon party.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2012-01-06 18:07:13 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I disagree with generating a killmail simply on the fact that in order to do so you will have to give credit to someone who didn't "actually" kill anything. The ship self destructed. What I would agree to is increasing the time it takes to self destruct and prevent the self destructing ship from being able to target anything and from using modules to avoid abusing that. Maybe make the self destruct timer based on the ships size. The whole point to self destruct is to deny your enemy the satisfaction of a kill. There is no other point in EvE for self destruct other than that right now. 5 minutes or so on self destruct for capitals (as they are really the only issue here) sounds about reasonable.

I do agree that self destructing ships should NOT pay out insurance.


Agree with this.

Why should you get a KM if you didn't actually kill the ship?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2012-01-06 21:57:35 UTC
Actually, the problem with self destruct is that it's done for one out of two reasons: "my precious kill/death ratio!" or "oh **** my fit is so moronic I have to hide it".

If killmails are given to the highest non-NPC damage dealer, even if someone self destructs, then maybe they'll go down fighting instead of being an absolute coward and initiating a fleet-wide selfdestruct of all dreads or whatever. Literally the only thing they're accomplishing (apart from ~their K/D ratio~), is making their defeat quicker and less costly for the attacker. It's dumb as rocks.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2012-01-06 22:03:53 UTC
Or as Grath said, 75b+ going kersplode without anyone shooting a single shot at them.

Dumb.
As.
Rocks.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#97 - 2012-01-07 07:44:28 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I disagree with generating a killmail simply on the fact that in order to do so you will have to give credit to someone who didn't "actually" kill anything. The ship self destructed. What I would agree to is increasing the time it takes to self destruct and prevent the self destructing ship from being able to target anything and from using modules to avoid abusing that. Maybe make the self destruct timer based on the ships size. The whole point to self destruct is to deny your enemy the satisfaction of a kill. There is no other point in EvE for self destruct other than that right now. 5 minutes or so on self destruct for capitals (as they are really the only issue here) sounds about reasonable.

I do agree that self destructing ships should NOT pay out insurance.



So if a small gang manage to hold down and slowly damage a supercap it's OK that they should be denied a KM, but massive blob fleets reliably get one?

Why disincentivise smaller fleets from attacking supers?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#98 - 2012-01-07 07:45:59 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I disagree with generating a killmail simply on the fact that in order to do so you will have to give credit to someone who didn't "actually" kill anything. The ship self destructed. What I would agree to is increasing the time it takes to self destruct and prevent the self destructing ship from being able to target anything and from using modules to avoid abusing that. Maybe make the self destruct timer based on the ships size. The whole point to self destruct is to deny your enemy the satisfaction of a kill. There is no other point in EvE for self destruct other than that right now. 5 minutes or so on self destruct for capitals (as they are really the only issue here) sounds about reasonable.

I do agree that self destructing ships should NOT pay out insurance.


Agree with this.

Why should you get a KM if you didn't actually kill the ship?


Ships which are finished off by CONCORD, gate guns, NPCs etc still generate a lossmail.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
J Kunjeh
#99 - 2012-01-07 11:30:18 UTC  |  Edited by: J Kunjeh
Posting in a PL "I wants me kill mails so I can stroke my epeen" whine thread.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#100 - 2012-01-07 15:59:08 UTC
J Kunjeh wrote:
Posting in a PL "I wants me kill mails so I can stroke my epeen" whine thread.

Posting to confirm PL never bring enough deeps to beat the two minute timer.

They should probably bring more supers and titans to fights.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]