Player Features and Ideas Discussion

which makes you and me polar opposites.

if such a tool were to exist i would ask it to be removed, because those are OP, not watchlists



oh wow, you can "attempt to affect someone," however, that's not the same has truly affecting someone. You can log in and run an agent and find the target without them knowing, but what then? Fly out there? what if they're just passing through? what if they log out in a safe spot? IIRC agents don't tell their exact location in space, so now you need to probe (assuming they are still logged in). You can hunt when ever, you don't need to hunt me exclusively, anyone can become your target. As for your exits, that's always going to be a thing with or without watchlists.


and how do you know that i logged out in a ship? did we fight? did we pass each other by? did watchlist tell you what i'm flying? It works for everyone as well, especially with the use of alts.




you're asking the wrong guy, i don't hunt others. If i did, it would be some random neut in null/wh. Even then, i wouldn't bother chasing them down if they got away. It doesn't matter when, you can run them whenever and turn up nothing or you can get lucky and have a search find the target.


I think I've said all I can say on this matter. My position on this has been made known and will not budge. Until such a time as new info, that hasn't been already discussed comes up, I'll be leaving this thread.

+1 for making watch lists consensual only.

Outside of WH space, security agents can indicate location in-game, and local can be checked to verify if a player is logged in already or not.
It just requires more efforts in game, which proponents of keeping the watch lists as they are are adverse to.

From a certain point, my watchlist was starting to get annoying with that constant *bingbingbingbingbingbingbingbing*, finding the option to disable the notification sound was a highlight.

I also think that watchlists are completely broken and should be removed without replacement. Want to know if he's online? Check your chat channel people can voluntarily join or leave, and remove the spycam that watchlist is. Or introduce the *appear as offline* toggle, so you never broadcast your online status again if you so chose, which everyone would use.

The current implementation of the watchlist is among the most backwards, poorly thought out features avaiable in this game of *no intel without working for it* and leads to nothing but one-sided intel gathering without any form of counterplay (for all those nerds defending watchlist as a *good* or *acceptable* tool, it's not and you should feel bad for suggesting it).

I routinely leave my accounts logged in when I am sleeping. Often cloaked and in space too.

What worth is your intel in that situation? I'll help, bugger all.


It only matters a damn for supers and only because they can't dock and that's now got an expiration date too.



Ed: And if you want to talk about free and effortless intel, then let's trash local over all of new eden. Wouldn't bother me, but if people are wanting to be fair and balanced, then let's cull it ALL.

I could live with it, for the same reasons I suspect you as a WH resident wouldn't bat an eyelid, but let's see if the rest of them fancy it.

huh?

well, yes. but i'm not sure if you're in favour of the current mechanic or not.....

without knowing the WHEN, there's no point looking for the WHAT (are they flying) and WHERE (are they).

The WHO is actually irrelevant to the discussion at hand. The WHO could be anyone from a Goonswarm or Pandemic Legion SuperCapital pilot to a miner in Niballe who shitposts on forums.

The WHO is what starts the whole process and could be anything from 'the first two people to kill me when I was a Nub and I nurture hopes of revenge*" through to the aforementioned supercapital pilot I saw on ZKillboard.


fyi: i have the first two people who blapped me as a nub on my watchlist and I harbour hopes of future revenge.

Well, good for you.

Behaviour like that (people logged in all the time) is easy to spot, I'm talking about people that log in prior to doing things though - and those people are the vast majority. With a simple click of a few buttons, I can crosscheck zkill and get their (from experience) likely avaiable fleetcomp within a minute roughly. To do that, the cloaky AFK toon I got orbiting my hole only has to spot a single ship jumping in after the wh wobble sound, copy the name and paste it, and then paste some names back to eve. Voila, accurate intel (atleast it's been accurate on a very regular basis).

So by seeing one guy, I know what their people like to fly (via zkill, no complaint here), but I also know who is online, which ships exactly are avaiable to them, if their FC/vets are online and so on.

I'm not complaining about knowing that you're cloaked and in bed. I'm complaining about being able to call their fleetcomp, proficiency and calculate my odds without doing more than copypaste, rightclick watchlist. Being able to tell that they have a falcon, a rapier, a tengu, something gallente AF-cruiser and maybe 2 bombers ONLINE just by pasting their scanner's name into zkill is - imo - not good. The second bomber turned out to be an astero, and the gallente AF-cruiser was an enyo in the end and the tengu cloaked up when their rapier exploded. So yeah... Use watchlist, pick easy fight.

E:


If you can see them, they can see you. Sending a watchlist notification is optional.

And if watchlists weren't a thing, there wouldn't be the one and only counterplay of staying logged in at all times. Let's remind ourselves of what that entails. Elevated electric bills, possibly a dedicated computer to keep EvE running. And that's not an option available to everyone. There's counterplay to a lot of intel sources. Some of them more palatable than others. If your hunting grounds are compromised, you can move on. If killboards reveal too much of what you fly, you can train up to fly another doctrine, switch it up. If your reputation precedes you and local gives you away, you can make use of recyclable alts to spy on people so you can still try to get the drop.

These compromises and options aren't ideal. Some are reasonable, some are honestly a bit too far. But they ALL involve in-game tools. That is what makes them different.

There is no in-game counterplay to watchlists. Stay logged in so they never quite know if you're a current threat. So, buy a computer just to run EvE to do that? That only works if you have the finances to operate that. Plus that locks out two characters on your account while you're logged in with the main.

Killboards are controversial, but they do provide incentive for people to hunt. People log into EvE, they roam because they want credit for explosions. That's content the game feeds on. The intel they provide is only a problem if they see you coming and know who you are. 1: Watchlists. 2: Local. So let's be rid of them.

we've been through this.

zKillBoard, while it does provide a lot of good intel, isn't instant and up-to-the-second correct. There's been times when a kill takes ~15 minutes to appear on zkill or one of the other killboards.

The other issue is that zkill ONLY updates when you appear on a killmail, either as an aggressor or as a asploded ship.

The watchlist provides 100% accurate information that your target is ONLINE. They don't have to do anything that zKill reports on in order to appear on the watchlist. All tey have to do is log in and BINGO, I know they're online and can start actively hunting them.