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War dec trolls.

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Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#121 - 2015-11-03 09:57:48 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Literally nothing stops my targets from shooting back. I am not "retaining the safety of highsec", I am giving it up and what's more I'm paying for the privilege.

Oh, they can shoot back, sure, but they'll still die in the end. After all, they are weak. That's why you declared war on them in the first place. And yes, you retain the safety of high-sec, because the only people who can shoot you are the people you chose to declare war on.


You know allies are a thing, right?

Allies are just another corporation wardeccing the corporation that wardecced you. They aren't your friends. They won't help you. Don't act as if they relevant.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Valkin Mordirc
#122 - 2015-11-03 09:59:02 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:

They get to choose when they attack.




Eh No? They can pick who they want to yes.

But the 24h stasis timer give both parties an equal footing to start out on.

In 24h before a dec a defender should,

Send out a mail, preferably with the aggressors linked in mail for easy of watch listing. Which believe me, most Mercs don't watch list most of their decs so you would have the advantage of them not know how many of you are online.

Maybe do a CTA and form a fleet at a certain time,

Hire another merc to help,

Move away from common systems, Trade hubs, mission hubs, and alike. We do check them regularly.

Or you know go to lowsec and try to out risk the Aggressor. It'll probably work. Why bother going to lowsec for 2 dudes when you have a ton of other active wars?

It would stop a lot of people from going to you. Wouldn't stop me. I went to the ass end of solitude just to kill a proc. That was annoying as ****, and because its so annoying most people won't bother with it.

If the Defenders choose to initiate first by forming a fleet, locating a target and moving to bait and kill that target it's completely possible.

So you are completely incorrect about that bit.
#DeleteTheWeak
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#123 - 2015-11-03 09:59:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Felsusguy wrote:

Allies are just another corporation wardeccing the corporation that wardecced you.


And here we have the carebear substituting his feelings and paranoia for the actual reality of the mechanic. It works in a number of ways besides just that enormous oversimplification.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#124 - 2015-11-03 09:59:33 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Literally nothing stops my targets from shooting back. I am not "retaining the safety of highsec", I am giving it up and what's more I'm paying for the privilege.

Oh, they can shoot back, sure, but they'll still die in the end. After all, they are weak. That's why you declared war on them in the first place. And yes, you retain the safety of high-sec, because the only people who can shoot you are the people you chose to declare war on.


You know allies are a thing, right?

Big smileTrollololllollolloll
* allegiance notification
*allegiance notification
*allegiance notification
Smile
* allegiance notification
*allegiance notification
*allegiance notification
* allegiance notification
*allegiance notification
*allegiance notification
Shocked

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#125 - 2015-11-03 10:04:54 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:

They get to choose when they attack.




Eh No? They can pick who they want to yes.

But the 24h stasis timer give both parties an equal footing to start out on.

In 24h before a dec a defender should,

Send out a mail, preferably with the aggressors linked in mail for easy of watch listing. Which believe me, most Mercs don't watch list most of their decs so you would have the advantage of them not know how many of you are online.

Maybe do a CTA and form a fleet at a certain time,

Hire another merc to help,

Move away from common systems, Trade hubs, mission hubs, and alike. We do check them regularly.

Or you know go to lowsec and try to out risk the Aggressor. It'll probably work. Why bother going to lowsec for 2 dudes when you have a ton of other active wars?

It would stop a lot of people from going to you. Wouldn't stop me. I went to the ass end of solitude just to kill a proc. That was annoying as ****, and because its so annoying most people won't bother with it.

If the Defenders choose to initiate first by forming a fleet, locating a target and moving to bait and kill that target it's completely possible.

So you are completely incorrect about that bit.

No, what I said is still correct. The attacker gets to choose. There's a 24 hour period before fighting can begin, but that doesn't change the fact that they choose when that happens.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#126 - 2015-11-03 10:06:26 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:

They get to choose when they attack.




Eh No? They can pick who they want to yes.

But the 24h stasis timer give both parties an equal footing to start out on.

In 24h before a dec a defender should,

Send out a mail, preferably with the aggressors linked in mail for easy of watch listing. Which believe me, most Mercs don't watch list most of their decs so you would have the advantage of them not know how many of you are online.

Maybe do a CTA and form a fleet at a certain time,

Hire another merc to help,

Move away from common systems, Trade hubs, mission hubs, and alike. We do check them regularly.

Or you know go to lowsec and try to out risk the Aggressor. It'll probably work. Why bother going to lowsec for 2 dudes when you have a ton of other active wars?

It would stop a lot of people from going to you. Wouldn't stop me. I went to the ass end of solitude just to kill a proc. That was annoying as ****, and because its so annoying most people won't bother with it.

If the Defenders choose to initiate first by forming a fleet, locating a target and moving to bait and kill that target it's completely possible.

So you are completely incorrect about that bit.



Completely incorrect about most of it, tbh.

It is as if they think their ships will assplode in an AT style boundry violation if they leave highsec.
Valkin Mordirc
#127 - 2015-11-03 10:08:59 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:

No, what I said is still correct. The attacker gets to choose. There's a 24 hour period before fighting can begin, but that doesn't change the fact that they choose when that happens.



Uhh huh.

I don't see how a week before a dec is called is beneficial to the the aggressor but whatever dude keep picking to make it seem like you're in the right.


I gave a list of things that a corp can do with in 24h to avoid attackers with out dropping corp.


And you just pulled out your inner 12 year old and when NUH UH I MEANT THIS actually.


Cute but it only degrades the idea of tweaking and balancing wardecs into another flame war. So GG homie.
#DeleteTheWeak
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#128 - 2015-11-03 10:10:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Felsusguy
afkalt wrote:
It is as if they think their ships will assplode in an AT style boundry violation if they leave highsec.

I have ventured out of high-sec on several occasions. If you could not tell from my posts, then perhaps you should refrain from making judgments at all.

Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Uhh huh.

I don't see how a week before a dec is called is beneficial to the the aggressor but whatever dude keep picking to make it seem like you're in the right.


I gave a list of things that a corp can do with in 24h to avoid attackers with out dropping corp.


And you just pulled out your inner 12 year old and when NUH UH I MEANT THIS actually.


Cute but it only degrades the idea of tweaking and balancing wardecs into another flame war. So GG homie.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Regardless of the meager amount of time given to the defender to prepare, they attacker still gets to choose when the war starts. This is an irrefutable fact.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#129 - 2015-11-03 10:12:43 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:

Allies are just another corporation wardeccing the corporation that wardecced you.


And here we have the carebear substituting his feelings and paranoia for the actual reality of the mechanic. It works in a number of ways besides just that enormous oversimplification.

In fact they aren't doing anything at all but scaring the risk-averse attacker so much that even Kaarous admits his balls are shriveling.

Which is beautifully illustrated by the representative of the chicken alliance that never undocks unless it's more than 5v3 in the following quote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

Big smileTrollololllollolloll
* allegiance notification
*allegiance notification
*allegiance notification
Smile
* allegiance notification
*allegiance notification
*allegiance notification
* allegiance notification
*allegiance notification
*allegiance notification
Shocked


Unfortunately, paying a few hundred mil to just scare those types shitless is not a viable strategy anyway.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#130 - 2015-11-03 10:12:49 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Literally nothing stops my targets from shooting back. I am not "retaining the safety of highsec", I am giving it up and what's more I'm paying for the privilege.

Oh, they can shoot back, sure, but they'll still die in the end. After all, they are weak. That's why you declared war on them in the first place. And yes, you retain the safety of high-sec, because the only people who can shoot you are the people you chose to declare war on.


You know allies are a thing, right?

Allies are just another corporation wardeccing the corporation that wardecced you. They aren't your friends. They won't help you. Don't act as if they relevant.

As someone who deals with the mechanic regularly, it's entirely relevant and generally a pain in the arse when your 20 man hunt turns into a 3-400 man war.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#131 - 2015-11-03 10:14:13 UTC
It's a strawman anyway.

'bear: wardecs are a problem because it makes high sec functionally identical to low sec for me.
'troll: Go to low sec and the wardec won't be a problem.

Good solution there. Really...
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#132 - 2015-11-03 10:16:06 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Literally nothing stops my targets from shooting back. I am not "retaining the safety of highsec", I am giving it up and what's more I'm paying for the privilege.

Oh, they can shoot back, sure, but they'll still die in the end. After all, they are weak. That's why you declared war on them in the first place. And yes, you retain the safety of high-sec, because the only people who can shoot you are the people you chose to declare war on.


You know allies are a thing, right?

Allies are just another corporation wardeccing the corporation that wardecced you. They aren't your friends. They won't help you. Don't act as if they relevant.

As someone who deals with the mechanic regularly, it's entirely relevant and generally a pain in the arse when your 20 man hunt turns into a 3-400 man war.


Relevant to you, maybe. Relevant to your target? Considerably less so.

Your allies are generally interested in the gudfite and not in protecting you.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2015-11-03 10:20:20 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
It's a strawman anyway.

'bear: wardecs are a problem because it makes high sec functionally identical to low sec for me.
'troll: Go to low sec and the wardec won't be a problem.

Good solution there. Really...



And I've told you repeatedly it is NOTHING like low sec.

The rules are different in low sec. When at war, I would argue to my last breath that lowsec is SAFER. If, however, people do not know or understand how to keep themselves safe then I would not expect them to understand why that statement holds true.
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#134 - 2015-11-03 10:23:45 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
It's a strawman anyway.

'bear: wardecs are a problem because it makes high sec functionally identical to low sec for me.
'troll: Go to low sec and the wardec won't be a problem.

Good solution there. Really...


It's actually worse than lowsec, there's isn't even a standing loss.

Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
As someone who deals with the mechanic regularly, it's entirely relevant and generally a pain in the arse when your 20 man hunt turns into a 3-400 man war.

If you could stop being such a chickens, people would be a lot less likely to jump into your wars.
But you have a reputation already, so I suggest disbanding and starting anew.
Valkin Mordirc
#135 - 2015-11-03 10:27:32 UTC
Honestly for real Mike.


If you could change wars. How would you do it?

Because by the way you're arguing it seems you follow the idea of the OP and that they shouldn't be in game at all.

Like Legitly, I wanna know where you stand,
#DeleteTheWeak
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#136 - 2015-11-03 10:28:16 UTC
Orca Platypus wrote:


Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
As someone who deals with the mechanic regularly, it's entirely relevant and generally a pain in the arse when your 20 man hunt turns into a 3-400 man war.

If you could stop being such a chickens, people would be a lot less likely to jump into your wars.
But you have a reputation already, so I suggest disbanding and starting anew.

Said the brave forum alt.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#137 - 2015-11-03 10:28:50 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Orca Platypus wrote:


Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
As someone who deals with the mechanic regularly, it's entirely relevant and generally a pain in the arse when your 20 man hunt turns into a 3-400 man war.

If you could stop being such a chickens, people would be a lot less likely to jump into your wars.
But you have a reputation already, so I suggest disbanding and starting anew.

Said the brave forum alt.



Hey some of us have standards P


Ed: Iknow you're not meaning me Smile I have at least been using this toon since long before it was "cool". Originally made to troll the afk cloaking threads.....
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#138 - 2015-11-03 10:34:35 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
It's a strawman anyway.

'bear: wardecs are a problem because it makes high sec functionally identical to low sec for me.
'troll: Go to low sec and the wardec won't be a problem.

Good solution there. Really...



And I've told you repeatedly it is NOTHING like low sec.

The rules are different in low sec. When at war, I would argue to my last breath that lowsec is SAFER. If, however, people do not know or understand how to keep themselves safe then I would not expect them to understand why that statement holds true.


That's why I said it became functionally like low sec.

Yes, the rules are different, but for the purposes of avoiding a war it's not a comparison that comes out in low secs favor except that people are hunting in general, not you in particular with their backup protected by concord.

If the purpose for staying in high sec was to avoid casual predatory pvp, going to low sec is kinda like going from the frying pan to the fire. It's still putting on an additional layer of gameplay that PvE minded players feel to be a gamebreaking hassle. It goes beyond the realities of ganking in highsec to the sort of D-scan spamming, pirate roaming, gate camping nonsense that they were in high sec to avoid in the first place. Sure, you are free to engage the logi as soon as you see them, and can freely hunt the boosters, yadda, yadda....

Going to Low Sec is not a reasonable counter because it *is* a different kind of play, and one that the 'decced were never interested in playing in the first place or they would be there already.

There is this odd sense of entitlement for some PvP'rs that people should be moving out of high sec for the 'more fun' areas of space where they can engage them in pvp more freely. That's false because it's a sandbox. You can't get away from PvP in EVE, but neither should you have to faceplant up someone's rectum every single moment you are online to make them feel better about themselves.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#139 - 2015-11-03 10:39:44 UTC
I'm not asking you to move out. I stand to gain nothing from it, I don't live in lowsec, I prefer null/WH because bubbles keep people honest with implants.

I'm simply presenting the alternate that exists and does not involve you logging off for the duration. I did not suggest null/WH because they ARE far more dangerous.

However if you wish to put up artificial barriers to solutions then, of course, you'll eventually reach the inescapable conclusion that the only course of action is to not play.

And I guess that's fair enough, to each their own, but we can't pretend the mechanics are the limiting factor here.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#140 - 2015-11-03 10:42:24 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Honestly for real Mike.


If you could change wars. How would you do it?

Because by the way you're arguing it seems you follow the idea of the OP and that they shouldn't be in game at all.

Like Legitly, I wanna know where you stand,


For myself, I would change wars to remove the security standing penalty for destroying ships, and remove concord intervention if the war becomes mutual.

I also am on board with the idea of a structure or other mechanism that allows the defenders to fight to end the war.

It's hilarious to me that the 'deccers get upset when a corp just closes down. That's what's called winning the war--- you destroyed your enemy... but it's also the only way to return to the things the defenders find enjoyable.

Enjoying the game should be the focus, for everybody, not just you, or just me.