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How embarrassing, I made a mistake.
It seems in my modifications I had duplicated my Jag as a Wolf but not replaced the falloff
Wensley is indeed correct

Apologies there

Hey, how's that unfittable Hawk fit we posted for you? You've proved your value, you're welcome. Battleclinic is not exactly a means to prove anything. You don't see me running around gloating about my awesome pvp ability because of my BC ranking (52 btw)

@ Marlona
Nobody is stopping you from formulating an idea, making a thread, posting it, and backing it up.
The problem is that most of your ideas are universally panned

Ok, having been on sisi 2 days in a row now, I have tested the Hawk, the Harpy, the Wolf and the Retribution. I have fought against the vengeance, the enyo, the retribution, the jaguar and the dramiel.

I'm not particularly impressed. They've taken a strong class, made all of them stronger, and some of them are just insane. I'd be happier with just the 4th bonus, and the retri being given it's second mid. If they still need changing after that, then fine, but do it a little at a time, instead of one massive change.

It seems to me that they are trying to be made more viable for null sec, but I'm struggling to see the point. In null sec, people usually just don't fly assault ships, they fly navy/pirate faction if they fly frigates at all. If I'm missing something, and AFs are actually widely used in null sec, I would be delighted to see any evidence.

AF pilots are more or less entirely based in low sec, and the people who fly them have no need for an MWD bonus. In dog-fighting and duels, which, being honest is more or less their entire usage, (apart from wolfpacks), an mwd is a liability more than a bonus. It reduces the cap for active tanking, and takes up a large amount of powergrid and cpu that could be used for other things. It also leaves them without a prop mod once scrambled, and getting a scram on an mwd'ing frigate is not actually that hard.

I'd honestly rather CCP just left them alone than this.

I think the new bonuses are a step int the right direction.

My experience with assault frigates is restrited to Dogfighting, where only the 4 (currently) bonuses will apply.

MWD bonus is "useless" in a dogfighting situation, since you will either get scrammed or will want to scram. Exceptions exist of course, but generally you or your opponent will be looking to scram, thusly rendering the bonus completly uneficient and unimportant (since the MWD will be shut down).

The module slots added were a nice touch, but I've yet to fully understand the implications/ramifications of that change, especially with little to no change in fitting capabilities.

In essence you will either be promoting downgrading of specific items (And on that field I'm not pleased with the idea of using a full-named set up, since I consider it stupid, in any given situation, regardless of ship class tpo be forced to used named items outside an ideal-role set-up) or further additions of manuvreability/tracking/damage modules that use little powergrid but use a relativly large amount of CPU.

I can imagine that most people will just continue to use their current set ups, but adding a touch here or there depending on what the fitting management will permit.

I'm also not opposed the idea of making the entire class superior to pirate frigates, albeit in specific cases (Cruor, Daredevil) the 90% web mostly used will tend to overshadow any sort of new capability provided by Assault Ships.

I will not critisize the new module-slots, because after playing EVE for so long, I've come to realise that requests to upgrade a ship fitting-wise are pointless, since the players will inevocably find the most optimal way of fitting any given hull with the fitting requirements. Most people I've seen posting here are of the idea that this change is meant to upgrade their existing fittings with new goodies, while the goal is certainly not that, but instead to completly overhaul the entire class and find a new balance for any given ship.

That being said, I'm very biased towards the idea of making Assault Frigates having an afterburner bonus, of 2.5% to 5% velocity upgrade per level of Assault Ships skill in order to make them as fast, when afterburning, as pirate ships. However, the idea that the ship should be able to dual prop is rather always-present, since you can bet, someone, somewhere, will do it, and rub it on your face. and lets be honest...

...I think I can do it already if I think on it for a bit, although it won't be optimal, it will be exceedingly annoying.

THERE!

Right there. I bolded and underlined it. Let's translate: While they skill up for Assault Ships because they have become the new baseline frigate.

It is ironic that I moved to Hevrice because you guys (and BRRC, but they've moved far away) actually come out and fight solo in T1 frigates. After the changes... will I ever get you out of the AS? What reason would you have to fly any other frigate? Should I just go ahead and reprocess the hundreds of Rifters I have on stock?


EDIT: Because I just have to...

YOU SAID YOU CARED!! DOESN'T THE RIFTER MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU ANYMORE!!!!!!

@Takeshi
There's are a couple major flaws with your graph.
1. 90 degree transversal is never 90 degrees. Maybe at one point or another, but it's never close to 90 on the regular.
2. A Comet doesn't orbit that close that fast. EFT doesn't account for agility, if that Comet is ABing its out more, and if it's not, it's way slower. On top of that, if it IS really close and moving really fast, it's because it doesn't have a tank.

Also, any Amarr AF pilot should laugh at you for even mentioning warrior drones. Really? Hobgobs (which are slower and bigger) sure, but Warriors?

@Kalaratiri
AFs are one of the least used ships in EVE.
They are rare in 00 because AB fits are horrible for 00 roaming & combat, and MWD fits get you one shotted.

@Captain
First things first, MARLONAS ideas get panned universally.
I'm not saying there aren't any interesting EVE ideas on the forums.

Secondly, I'm not a Goon. I haven't even been in the corp for a month, and I joined for a change of pace.
I have no ulterior motive beyond making EVE a better game.

Thirdly, I didn't say that Battleclinic support means nothing.
BC has its resources and community and that's great, but just because you got 20 votes on a fit doesn't mean that is the best possibly way to fit the damn thing. Hell, I swear by my fits and so do others, but I know there are better fits for different applications.

Well, 122 incoming dps is a huge amount for a frigate that isn't renowned for its tankability.
I can guarantee you that the bigger the tank the higher than incoming number goes =P

Just to bring you up to speed though, 90% of Amarr AF pilots will do two things.
1. Plug their thermal hole (Which btw, ehp on a retribution with a dcu & thermal rig is double the Comet hp)
2. Laugh at Warriors. They have a MASSIVE explosive resist =P

@ Plutonian
Here's a question for you;
As a HAC pilot, why would I ever go back to T1 cruisers?

This

Because you live in nullsec and T1 cruisers have no role there. (Yes... don't choke... I've actually lived in null where I endured endless crap from my alliance leader for flying Stabbers, Ruptures, Rifters and Jaguars (back when Jags really were s**t). In fact, I often complained that T1 frigs and cruisers should have a role in 0.0 warfare. But changes to one part of this game affect others (drastically sometimes), and I'd not destroy the fun of another spaceship-game-player for my own desires.

Quid pro quo, Prometheus. Quid pro quo...

Honest question: Have you become so personally obsessed with getting your changes into the game (playing developer) that you can no longer hear dissent?

You see, a good game designer puts his ideas forward. He thinks it will be a cool change. But if he become obsessed to the point that he can no longer hear or understand criticism of his idea then he's become a liability to the team and the project.

Here's another:

Do you think buffing a particular ship class far in advance of it's brethren does not obsolete other ships of that class? (Remember: I answered your question honestly... without applying my own desires to slant the response. Let's see if you can do the same.)

We're all entitled to our own opinion, but I think you you're pretty much describing why generic buffs plus the MWD role bonus is the right thing to do. It makes them overall stronger (some AFs are maybe too strong) and should make them a lot better in nullsec where are underused.

What are you suggesting? An AB bonus that makes them solopownmobiles in lowsec while still being bad in nullsec? I'm trying to understand what you would do.

Dumbass forums .. they eat more posts than they ever let through.

Short version:
Balancing something to function on the large scale inevitably breaks it on all other scales, unless such function hinges on 'gimmicks' like cloaks (bombers) or speed (ceptors).

Tier2 BC or AF is hardly conducive to competitive and fun gameplay.

Don't know if CCP are unaware of this .. or they just want the AF line on the backlog ticked .. or they started believing that the CSM represents all of Eve.
At this point, considering the crap want to do to FW, I wouldn't be surprised if this AF idea came from the CSM and CCP adopts it blindly if only to feign innocence when TQ data proves them utterly broken in anything but large romps.

Meh, GW2 is coming. Should be just in time for what looks to be a summer fiasco for anyone not in blob-land.

Peace out.