Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Set a cap on the number of wars an alliance/corporation can start.
An alliance that can start 155 wars is ridiculous and offers no benefit to the game, other than the creation of griefing "content"(the removal of PVE isk to pad some mercenary alliances killboard)
All this encourages is the harassing of newby/industrial corporations.

There would be no downside to limiting war dec trolls ability to troll, other than limiting an ISK sink (war fees are tiny in the grand scheme of things) and the isk goes to concord, AKA leaves player circulation.

These individuals would have no choice but to cherrypick their targets if they were limited to say 20 outgoing war decs, instead of finding random passerbys entering tradehubs to grief, or, god forbid, they war dec people actually interested in PvP.

This would offer them the ability to charge more for their "griefing"... I mean mercenary work, and help keep the number of peaceful industrialists active and paying subscribers, instead of forcing people to work around the non-consensual war dec system by dropping corporation, which many do and is simply a waste of time and a pointless work around, when CCP should be addressing the problem of high sec griefing.

Capping only OUTGOING war decs still offers a variety of war possibilities, while limiting the amount of non-consensual PvP encountered by those with no desire for such things. I accept that i am never perfectly safe in highsec, but what is the logic/lore behind essentially bribing CONCORD to turn a blind eye? Allowing CODE to continue their griefing under vague roleplaying elements is bad enough, but no aspect of this game has inflicted as much player agitation as has the highsec war system presently in place.


Pros to limiting outgoing war declarations:
- increased player retention
- increased login numbers ( i know at least a dozen people who don't bother to even log on during a war dec)
- happier carebear population
- logic is applied.

Cons:
- a few "mercenaries" may weep at having to actually fight people prepared to fight back.
- a small amount less ISK leaving player circulation

Christ, the tears when you actually have structures to defend will be magical.

While you're probably right about wardec numbers they won't be limited for as long as corps are disposable, the only thing making wars worth the effort atm is having masses of targets because targeted decs are so laughably ineffective. Fix that and maybe it'll be time for yet another war rethink.

The problem isn't how many decs, or how much they costs.

The problem is that there's no incentives to fight on either side.
Defenders will stay docked until the aggressor gets bored of having no one to pew pew, and aggressors won't engage if there's any threat posed.

This means the only purpose to wardec someone is to get easy KMs, trolling carebears, and/or for the lulz and tears.

Have you ever gotten into a BF match and the opposing team is an alliance (or whatever they're called in BF).
They're having fun because it's always fun to OMGWTFYOLOGGPWN face role your opponent.
However, it usually ends with everyone on your team dropping from the match.

This same mentality is held within Eve, only it's more organized and all on the same server. So every match is exactly this when it comes to wardec.
The aggressor is there for the lulz and easy kills that make their game more enjoyable for them and there's no consideration to what their intended target enjoys doing, by them or by CCP/the wardec mechanics.

So, they choose their targets based on ease of kills and there are very few entities that can do anything against is because they don't have enough SP, isk, members, and/or skill to fight back.

It leads to situations where starter corps won't grow, as they'll be wardecced at least once and at some point, players will just stop logging in, move to a larger entity like goons, or just stay in a NPC corp.

Every entity needed to start somewhere. The wardec system makes starting harder than already being established, so you either need to start with an already experienced group.
This means the large entities of Eve are essentially protected from any additional future threats as they likely will never grow.

This is the very same region for force projection nerfs, why they're changing how SOV works, and many other things that have lead to stagnation of large entities in order to fuel conflict. However, the wardec system is counter intuitive to that, as it doesn't drive conflict, but instead causes absence amongst the playerbase which leads to less conflict.
All because some people want to face roll others, just because they can.


Not every starter corp should last, and not every starter corp will lasts, but there are some starters that (given enough time) would have become more and more involved in PVP and eventually become a threat that drives conflict within Eve. However, a wardec to pop them for the lulz stopped this.


I'm not saying the wardec system shouldn't exist, I'm stating that something needs to be done that gives more incentive to fight wars (on both sides), give war a purpose, and make it potentially fun for the defender as well.
Balance is done for a reason. There's no fun in losing all the time without any opportunity to win, and will eventually lead to people quitting Eve. This will eventually mean that there's no more people to get your lulz off on, so those people will quit. Then, more and more people will quit because Eve is empty.

The more people having fun, the more people stick around and the higher the retention rate of new players.
I don't mind losing if I'm having fun, but it's no fun to know that I cannot win.

Didn't CCP Rise tell us the opposite, that experiencing non-consensual PvP such as wars and ganking was more likely to result in new player retention? What are you basing this view on that there will be increased login numbers? Seems like tilting the game in favour of the carebears would result in the loss of the players that hunt them, not to mention boring a whole new crop of players out of the game when nothing at all interesting happens to them during their first weeks or months in the game.

I hate to break this to you but CCP is not going to give you the safety you seem to crave. You will always be at risk of attack while you are in highsec to either gankers, and if you use structures to wardeccers. If you do not want to be at risk of wardecs, stick to the NPC corps like the developers intend for you to do. Simple as that.

If a HS POS hasn't provided incentive for conflict within HS, then why would citadels?

I'm not against decs being tied to a structure, but that structure should not be a citadel or other structure with self defense capabilities.
If it's based around a structure, it needs to be a defenseless structure that requires pilots in ships to both defend and attack.

Otherwise, it's just a structure shooting ships and one of the two entities still isn't undocking and/or playing station games.

What CCP Rise stated was obviously not worth the words waisted to express it.
We're all aware of that, but those of us that state so are shunned by those of us to which his statements favor.


There are many MANY factors that were not calculated into his statements and even he, himself, has stated that those numbers are purely speculation and take have no influence outside the numbers themselves.

It doesn't factor things such as...

Were those ganks in HS or not..
Were those players that were ganked/wardecced actively engaging in PVP before, during, or afterwards.
How many of those players have become risk averse.
How many have dropped sub since.
How many have dropped into and/or stayed in an NPC corp as a result of a wardec and/or gank.
How many have sought out and/or self-trained themselves in PVP...
How many have joined a large entity for better protection from these actions..
How many of those players have actually even made the claim that those very actions are why they stuck around, or was it the support of other pilots after the fact that kept them around?

Basing anything off those numbers is like basing the outcome of a null battle solely off isk loss.
It doesn't always determine the outcome, and truth be told, rarely has any factor on the outcome.

Good sir if you belive you are being harassed or grieffed please take it up with ccp as that is against the EULA

Oddly enough, despite everyone's claims that HS is too safe and the wardec system needs to favor them more, in order to make HS less safe, they seem to be ignoring that the new citadels are actually making everything safer, because (based on what I've heard so far) all the loot is transferred to other locations as opposed to being dumped out for the attacker.

So all your goodies are apparently going to be safer than they are with the current POS system.

It seems like everyone agrees with making non-HS space safer, yet Hs needs to be less safe, cause..... There's too many easy kills in HS? IDK.. Bit hard to understand the mindset here.

Got double-post trolled.

this is neither a redundant thread nor trolling.
it's a post from my perspective.

you wouldn't be the first to report my name, or the last, automatically assuming i mean it derogatorily.
i wouldn't be upset if it was changed, frankly, but troll elsewhere sir.


thank you joe for providing an alternate, more objective perspective...

Indeed, what incentive is offered for me to combat a war declaration?
In my eyes this would only encourage future war decs, as revenge or "content"...

Further detriment to my wallet for some station games with a cowardly "mercenary"?
Does the war dec go away if i kill a target?
Does it benefit my PvE experience in any way shape or form? no, it's time and effort to lose some of my isk or destroy someone elses, which I have very little desire to do either.

All it does is make me want to not login for a week, and how does CCP or anyone benefit from that?



because i'm in an industrial/ highsec pve corporation that travels frequently in and out of trade-hubs and due to this am prone to the occasional troll war declaration, and feel i would be less victimized if trolls couldn't just throw out unlimited war dec's to sate their crazy obsession with taking away from another players game experience? maybe?