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The Mittani's Art Of War On Youtube
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Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-01-06 04:51:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
I had to reinstall my operating system and lost Calrion Call 3 (epic vid that makes some really boring **** look epic Shocked) and I accidentally ran into this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYgpNLEbpYM&feature=related


I play EVE Online because it is a very interesting simulator in order to study human behavior. I find that aspect of EVE Online far more interesting then anything else. The opinions of this individual are spot on, and I think that it says allot about people in general.



Cue Equally Long Winded Analysis


In movies, men and women fight together to the death for an idea. I have always been interested in how the behavior of the "people that we imagine", differs so greatly from the actual behaviors observed in those same "real" people that dreamed them up. Real people don't really do this most of the time. I recall an experiment in medicine where doctors were trying to get people off of their medication with lifestyle changes. 350 people were selected and after 6 weeks everyone's health dramatically improved... by the 24th week only 86 remained. What that means is that the average human being REALLY can't stick to something in order to save their life, even if it has exceptional long term benefits.


Psychology In War

Role play as much as you like... you are not the being that you are pretending to be. You have a short attention span and a spine made of glass. It will almost unvaryingly break under the slightest distress if you think that there is an easier way to proceed. You can change your mind multiple times in less then a year, and so can your so called "loyalties"


Why is this so?


It is because your loyalty is based upon self gain, and the idea of self gain. As long as your corporation or alliance is making you ISK or otherwise giving you what you desire, you support them for purely selfish and self-serving reasons. Once that benefit is gone, so goes your loyalty. Interesting, yea?

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-01-06 04:52:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian

EVE Online & Nerdy Sun Tzus


Alliance warfare in this MMO gives rise to a select few that understand... not really war... but YOU. They understand you the person, and how you behave. That is truly fascinating from where I stand. When you get down to it, you make your own life miserable through your own actions, your own lack of resolve and your shallow loyalty. Not exactly character traits associated with say... the crew of the firefly, the enterprise or the rebels fighting the Imperials in starwars. But there is a 95% chance that YOU the reader, are made of such lesser stuff. Much like danny devito standing next to arnold schwarzenegger in the movie twins... you are made of the lesser half of the heros that you pretend to be when playing a video game. The result can only lead to the utter impermanence of all that you seemingly achieve.




My Take On It

For three years I have attempted to employ what I know about human psychology to the numerous PVP training schools I have been a part of. To great effect I think… it is not easy taking carebears and giving them the confidence to lose ships and PVP. My efforts created a microculture and that culture created a kind of loyalty that did not exist in other corporations that I had been a part of.

My understanding of this phenomena precipitated my success, and evidently the leaders of large alliances understand other things. They understand your inherent human weaknesses and exploit them to great effect in an utterly digital medium. I find this fairly remarkable, considering that EVE is supposed to "only be a game".


Anyways… enjoy this knowledge and try to do better by the people you associate yourself with. Their are people out there who know what you will do even if you yourself have no clue. They will exploit your transparent patters of behavior to great effect, and ultimately they will find justification in stroking their own egos at the expense of yours.









Q. So why are imaginary people different then real people?
A. Because knowing the path is different then actually walking the path (TM)


I suspect that if the crew of the firefly pissed on each other and bailed at the first sign of trouble like the people in large alliances do, they too would end up getting bullied, lose their morale and get steamrolled left and right. It is not rocket science people.

You reap what you sow.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-01-06 06:20:14 UTC
Why did someone create a video showcasing his undramatic reading of a Space Tzu article that he didn't even write himself I mean damn that guy is like the worst voice actor ever

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Imustbecomfused
Illicit Expo
#4 - 2012-01-06 08:59:15 UTC
I likes the video~it makes me want to do stuff...
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#5 - 2012-01-06 11:04:53 UTC
He knows ****. Straight

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-01-06 12:17:28 UTC
yikes, the bad science in some of those conclusions from the op is astonishing

I has all the eve inactivity
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-01-06 14:47:19 UTC
I get this really strange impression the OP either joined the wrong corp/alliance or made a corp and everyone bailed on him. The disloyal, lesser people they are. Tsk tsk, the dirty sellouts. Big smile

I feel trying to apply psychology to a game that 99.9% of people play for fun may lead to some interesting conclusions that are most likely wildly inaccurate.

EVE is not a job and if you treat it as such, you may want to find something else to use your leisure time on.

By the way? I think my CEO hates me and I think I may bail on this corp as he is not fulfilling my expectations, the bastard.

WTB new corp and/or disloyal alliance.
Tora Oni
Legendary Sidekicks in Space
#8 - 2012-01-06 15:15:43 UTC
Nice youtube. Think most of what he says is correct. Liked the touch of mentioning other great leaders..... as its one of the mentioned tactics. Smile

There is only one problem in this total strategy. The defeat of victory of total domination.

What will you do if you succeed and rule all systems ? It will kill your EVE fun, cause you have no one to kill but your own alliance members.
Marduk Nibiru
Chaos Delivery Systems
#9 - 2012-01-06 18:00:53 UTC
Pseudo-intellectualism. You should go masturbate. It's more productive.
Marduk Nibiru
Chaos Delivery Systems
#10 - 2012-01-06 18:03:23 UTC
Tora Oni wrote:

What will you do if you succeed and rule all systems ?


You get to be like Mantrid.

I DESTROYED A UNIVERSE!
I DESTROYED A UNIVERSE!
I DESTROYED A UNIVERSE!
I DESTROYED A UNIVERSE!
I DESTROYED A UNIVERSE!
I DESTROYED A UNIVERSE!
I DESTROYED A UNIVERSE!
I DESTROYED A UNIVERSE!
I DESTROYED A UNIVERSE!
** squish **
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#11 - 2012-01-06 18:36:16 UTC
You have to remember when you analyse group of people who play game that this part of people does not represent whole human population, it is selected group of those who want to play games. World has lot of people who are not willing to use their time on games.

My theory about people who plays computer games, more than casually, have some sort of phase in their life when they are not willing to face real world fully, maybe they have some problems in there. Reasons can be various and if we start to think ourself why we play we can find some little or some bigger reasons why we want to use time on playing.

So basically if you try to achieve something in EVE you have to remember that people are

1. playing only game for fun and are not willing to use too much time on those.

2. are people who have real life problems and are not possibly the best human material you can get, this is usually group who are willing to play a lot.

So those who play most needs a simple way to play and strategies has been evolved such in eve, people have fleets who are following order from FC, and fleet are so big that it does not matter if 50% or more fail to do command on time. Player skills hardly matter in there, anyone who can eat food from plate and answer a phone when it rings can do that.

I know that my thoughts can make someone angry because i claim that people who play EVE are somehow retards, but that is not what i try to say, People might be normal people but they have a phase on their life when they are stuck on games, and when that phase goes over they are normal people.

Example: let say you long time girl friend left you, and now you are depressed and play game in home and drink some beer, i bet you can not focus 100% on games or anything else because you are still recovering mentally. Couple weeks maybe and you have get over and you start to live your life again fully and get new girl friend etc...
Marduk Nibiru
Chaos Delivery Systems
#12 - 2012-01-06 19:07:11 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
My theory about people who plays computer games, more than casually, have some sort of phase in their life when they are not willing to face real world fully, maybe they have some problems in there.


My theory: most crack-pot, unfalsifiable theories about others are simply people expressing what scares them into denial when they look in the mirror.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#13 - 2012-01-06 19:29:49 UTC
Marduk Nibiru wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
My theory about people who plays computer games, more than casually, have some sort of phase in their life when they are not willing to face real world fully, maybe they have some problems in there.


My theory: most crack-pot, unfalsifiable theories about others are simply people expressing what scares them into denial when they look in the mirror.


I am sick man and never be able to do work etc anymore, there is nothing denial on that, i have lot of time to play when waiting my life to come to end.

Some other people maybe do not have so serious problems.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-01-06 20:34:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Marduk Nibiru wrote:
Pseudo-intellectualism. You should go **********. It's more productive.



Marduk Nibiru wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
My theory about people who plays computer games, more than casually, have some sort of phase in their life when they are not willing to face real world fully, maybe they have some problems in there.


My theory: most crack-pot, unfalsifiable theories about others are simply people expressing what scares them into denial when they look in the mirror.



People who respond like this to the idea of psychology, tend to not like what psychology has to say about them and so they get angry at the very idea of it. It's fairly common place, even though said individuals think themselves somehow unique and original in the world. Many are also on medication to correct certain special personality traits.

ADHD and depression, Marduk? That would be my first guess.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-01-06 20:39:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Bad Messenger wrote:


So basically if you try to achieve something in EVE you have to remember that people are

1. playing only game for fun and are not willing to use too much time on those.


Actually most people play eve because they are trying to reach a goal that they have set for themselves. It is not so much that playing is fun for long periods of time, it is that building an idea and aspiring to a set goal for the duration is fun and/or rewarding. This brings out qualities in said individuals that can be observed if you are paying close enough attention.



Bad Messenger wrote:

2. are people who have real life problems and are not possibly the best human material you can get, this is usually group who are willing to play a lot.


Funny, I seem to see allot of married folks with allot of time on their hands which directly contradicts your assertions.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Ahrieman
Codex Praedonum
Divine Damnation
#16 - 2012-01-06 21:18:49 UTC
Just what we needed, a "psychological" analysis of a game.

Marduk Nibiru wrote:
Pseudo-intellectualism. You should go **********. It's more productive.


I love how people try to bring their brand of pseudo-intellectualism into a video game.

Solo Rifter since 2009
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-01-06 21:34:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Smiling Menace
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:


So basically if you try to achieve something in EVE you have to remember that people are

1. playing only game for fun and are not willing to use too much time on those.


Actually most people play eve because they are trying to reach a goal that they have set for themselves. It is not so much that playing is fun for long periods of time, it is that building an idea and aspiring to a set goal for the duration is fun and/or rewarding. This brings out qualities in said individuals that can be observed if you are paying close enough attention.



Bad Messenger wrote:

2. are people who have real life problems and are not possibly the best human material you can get, this is usually group who are willing to play a lot.


Funny, I seem to see allot of married folks with allot of time on their hands which directly contradicts your assertions.


I have to 'lol' here, dude.

To try and work out why most people do what they do would take a lifetime and then some to work out. I bet if you did a straw poll on a random 200 people on the 4-4 undock in Jita and asked them why they play EVE, I will guess most do it because they can do things in EVE they couldn't do in real life.

You cannot in anyway shape or form look at a select group of people and from that determine why they do anything. It's just not possible.

Take myself for example, I play EVE for competition from others that doesn't require waking up a stupid times (Alliance CTA's don't count) or spending a million hours training (I have a job and a life God damn it!).

But I also play because I get to **** in someone's cheerios and ruin their day (Hi White Noise \o/ ).

I also set goals for myself from time to time (Capitals was my last goal).

However, the main reason I play EVE and the one thing you have totally overlooked? I have made friends here. I have my corp mates and alliance buddies that I think very highly of (even the damn Goat trolls Big smile ) and there have been a lot of times I've logged in, ship spun and just chatted for hours on TS/Mumble.

EVE has what I think just about every other game really lacks, a seriously kickass community. I love all EVE players from all corps/alliances for making this game so damn awesome every single day, in a strictly platonic, brosef kind of way.

TL;DR

People are people and there are a million different reasons why people do what people do, do, do....****, when does this stop? Twisted
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-01-06 21:39:48 UTC
Ummm.... everything you just said is also fairly commonplace.
It is more or less the normal average.


So...I don't know what you're getting at.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#19 - 2012-01-06 22:24:28 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:


So basically if you try to achieve something in EVE you have to remember that people are

1. playing only game for fun and are not willing to use too much time on those.


Actually most people play eve because they are trying to reach a goal that they have set for themselves. It is not so much that playing is fun for long periods of time, it is that building an idea and aspiring to a set goal for the duration is fun and/or rewarding. This brings out qualities in said individuals that can be observed if you are paying close enough attention.



Bad Messenger wrote:

2. are people who have real life problems and are not possibly the best human material you can get, this is usually group who are willing to play a lot.


Funny, I seem to see allot of married folks with allot of time on their hands which directly contradicts your assertions.


I have to 'lol' here, dude.

To try and work out why most people do what they do would take a lifetime and then some to work out. I bet if you did a straw poll on a random 200 people on the 4-4 undock in Jita and asked them why they play EVE, I will guess most do it because they can do things in EVE they couldn't do in real life.

You cannot in anyway shape or form look at a select group of people and from that determine why they do anything. It's just not possible.

Take myself for example, I play EVE for competition from others that doesn't require waking up a stupid times (Alliance CTA's don't count) or spending a million hours training (I have a job and a life God damn it!).

But I also play because I get to **** in someone's cheerios and ruin their day (Hi White Noise \o/ ).

I also set goals for myself from time to time (Capitals was my last goal).

However, the main reason I play EVE and the one thing you have totally overlooked? I have made friends here. I have my corp mates and alliance buddies that I think very highly of (even the damn Goat trolls Big smile ) and there have been a lot of times I've logged in, ship spun and just chatted for hours on TS/Mumble.

EVE has what I think just about every other game really lacks, a seriously kickass community. I love all EVE players from all corps/alliances for making this game so damn awesome every single day, in a strictly platonic, brosef kind of way.

TL;DR

People are people and there are a million different reasons why people do what people do, do, do....****, when does this stop? Twisted


My question now is, why you want to make new friends in internet games when there is real life too?

I've made couple friends in EVE too and meet those irl too but i still do not think those are same kind of friends than you make in irl. You can get rid of internet friend just by logging off, but doing that is much harder on real world.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#20 - 2012-01-06 22:37:53 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:


So basically if you try to achieve something in EVE you have to remember that people are

1. playing only game for fun and are not willing to use too much time on those.


Actually most people play eve because they are trying to reach a goal that they have set for themselves. It is not so much that playing is fun for long periods of time, it is that building an idea and aspiring to a set goal for the duration is fun and/or rewarding. This brings out qualities in said individuals that can be observed if you are paying close enough attention.



Bad Messenger wrote:

2. are people who have real life problems and are not possibly the best human material you can get, this is usually group who are willing to play a lot.


Funny, I seem to see allot of married folks with allot of time on their hands which directly contradicts your assertions.


Maybe it is their way to escape real life?

I understand that it is better to take couple beer at home and chat with EVE friends than go to pub and do the same. I bet your wife is more happier when you are at home.

Still it is phase on life where you are stuck in computer games, because it is just easier that way to ignore real world options.
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