Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Eve is marketed as a hard core pvp game. It stands to reason that new folk who come to eve are frequently looking for a pvp experience. But as a new player - what sort of pvp experience is there? The short answer is literally none. There is simply no direction to new players as to how to engage in or find pvp. At best a new player is smart enough to ask other players how to find pvp and they are usually told to go to lowsec and lose 10 rifters, or join fw or the recently closed rvb. At worst, the new player doesnt ask and never learns about the different options that exist for pvp out there. Either the new player is left with an ill formed view of eve as being nothing but a boring pvp game - or they are directed to be punching bags for players vastly more skilled then they are. Either way, New players are largely cut off from what makes eve fun, i.e. pvp. In a worst case scenario, we have new players who advance in the game not understanding the open world nature of pvp in eve - these folk buy a plex, bling out a ship and then wander into lowsec or null where it is promptly lost. Typically these players then rage and quit because they have no experience with pvp up until that point in eve.

What can be done? Its simple - new players need to be directed to engage in pvp. The npe needs npc agents directing new players to engage in missions where pvp is the point of the mission (e.g bring me the corpse of 5 players). Of course these missions have to be structured in such a way that new players have a shot at learning something and succeeding in order for the mission to be fun. Hence, if an npe pvp experience is to be worthwhile vets need to be limited from participating. How can these goals be achieved? Simple - a new 3 planet constellation is created - the first planet is a hs system where all new players start as default, this system has gates to the other 2 systems which are low sec and npc null respectively. The new players that start in the hs system conduct all their basic pve training in the hs system. After a suitable amount of time/experience, the new players are directed to go to the lowsec and then the null system where they are progressively directed to engage in both pvp and pve missions suitable to each system.

The kicker is that this new player constellation ( i envision it as being owned/controlled by soe for lore purposes) is connected by a one way gate to the rest of eve - once the new player feels they have completed enough of the pvp missions or are otherwise ready - they leave the constellation and go on out to the rest of the universe, never to return.

The end result is that new players are left with a new player playground where they can engage in pvp in their ibis and other new player ships without much interference from vets. Hopefully new players who go through this experience will have a better idea of what makes eve great and will no longer be left wondering what hit them when their shiny new toy is assploded the first time they wander into lowsec.

Ofc I would include an opt out screen at the player creation menu so that if you are a vet you can start in any of the traditional npe systems. Also, I would make it so if a player overstays their welcome that they can be automatically ejected by the npc soe agents after a certain period of time. Finally as for the market - new players dont require much - the market can be simply kept stocked by npc agents.

Sadly, this is correct. NPE as part of its mission should be given prefitted T1 frigate by mission agents and sent to one of the lowsec systems, e.g, Tama, Rancer, etc. This will improve new players engagement into the game (I read somewhere that if new players are ganked or shot at, they are more likely to continue to sub). Preferably it is the same lowsec system. This is a win-win scenario. New players becoming more engaged and pvp-ers have more targe... err, I mean recruits.

The end result is that they learn that everyone is just as bad as them when they go into a certain area of space and that you can PVP in noobships and kill other people and that agents hand you ships to PVP in. 3 points that convey a completely wrong image of what EVE PVP is really like.

Wondering what hit them is exactly what they need. They need to hit a wall and need to think about what happened, ask other people for advice and learn to use tools.
As I have suggested before, the Opportunities or tutorial of old should offer a mission that sends a new player to a random station low sec system with at least 2 entry points (one short route and one a little bit longer route). They are tasked with arriving at a station to talk to someone or get some sort of item.
The description is dynamic: The first try has no additional information available. It just offers them the mission telling them to go that system's station. If they succeed, that's fine and they get some valuable information like using killboards to check system kill stats (times, who kills there in what, etc., a link to dotlan to check more general stats about kill counts, when kills happen mostly and who lives there, to find different routes to the destination (no, no info about the ingame map as the ingame map is utterly impractical for these purposes), some advice about waiting for calmer times in case a system's gate is camped, etc. maybe fitting advices (MWD to burn back to a gate, some tank to survive some damage, a cloak maybe although this would require lengthy explanations, ...) -- in essence standard useful bits of basic PVP behavior tips.
If they fail, they get a second try and this time the information outlined before is given in the mission description to give them a direction on how to approach such a problem. If they succeed, that's fine and they have learned a lot from this endeavor about how to use tools to your advantage, check the geography of the area, check people and activity in the area, one way out of many on how to avoid choke points, use time to your advantage, and most importantly to think before you act.
If they fail, they get a voluntary third try. They can run it or not, it's up to them. Some people might just want to give up because their motivation or intelligence is lacking, others might want to try again to try out another approach or bring friends they made in the process (maybe they asked for advice/help in the rookie corp chat or other community chats they may be part of).
Failing is impossible as the mission will simply tell you that the matter has been resolved after the 2nd try (or how many more voluntary tries you want to run after the 3rd) as the agent then gives you the opportunity to abort the mission without severe consequences. Rewards for that mission could be ISK, skills or even some SP for those players who do not value knowledge as the most important reward for their activity in this stage of their gameplay.
This kind of experience might sound harsh and like an open invitation to camp low sec systems. But even if it does, new players learn a lot of things about the game, use of tools and mechanics/peculiarities of the area to their advantage, to think about how you do things and don't just mindlessly run into something and to socialize with others to overcome hurdles. For other players, who start camping gates or stations, they are at the very least drawn out of stations into space, where other people can engage them, ruin their camp, participate in their camp, replace their camp with their own, but most importantly make them available for in-space interaction.

There is no need for secluded constellations or systems, new players need to be introduced to what EVE is really like and the real EVE needs to be populated.

As another point, more reason in older players might be a good thing to reintroduce again as well. When I started, I accepted a mission in Mai once, back in 2012 when some then famous pirate gang lived there. They found me, but instead of mindlessly killing me, they gave me some advice, told me about the particularities of the area and this system, and let me go. This kind of reasonable behavior would also go a long way to introduce more people into PVP and to accustom them to what it's like. On the other hand, new players should also be coerced to realize that they are neither needed or craved for and that they are not the center of the universe. Some of them behave like idiots, spoiled brats with no manners, no reason and in ways that makes it very hard to be friendly and helpful to them. Instead, their disrespect and ignorance and subsequent lamenting just nurtures the urge in me to kill them repeatedly until they give up. So, in essence, people need to change as well. No secluded constellations or other shenanigans are necessary to take away from that necessity.

Having run a new-player-focused corporation in tha past, I can say that the sink-or-swim approach seldom works, because EVE is a game, and losing all the time makes people... play other games. Yes, I've seen some good pilots come out of it all bright-eyed over their first kill, but:

1. It wasn't the most common result.
2. It wasn't in Rancer :P

Most of the things that that Rivr mentioned above we taught as short courses on PvP and survival, maintained by all the older members of the corp and coupled with practical demonstrations. Newbs proved they learned how to MWD-cloak, or make an instawarp, or whatever and get a sticker/medal/newbie hangar access/promotion.

From my point of view, which may be wrong or right, the NPE needs more actual tactical lessons and a practical test and reward system for them. How well that could be automated using EVE's npc code, is a different matter altogether.

My 2 cents.

-1 to the OP separating the new players interested in PvP from the rest of the game would not solve the issues that cause them to quit it only delays their exposure to them.

Veteran players responses to these encounters in low sec are the key to keeping these new players engaged in my experiences.
If the vet blows them apart and warps off they are only rubbing salt into the open wounds they created. Like wise podding a new player is not helpful because it eliminates any chance the vet players have of talking to and helping those new players.

Helping the new players after an encounter is key, the low sec group my son flys with is an example of what I mean. When they encounter a new player or players in their area they engage these players but in a limited way. Instead of the whole group jumping they will only attack in equal numbers to balance the situation just a little. But what happens after they blow them up is the biggest part of it. They actually stay in the area and engage the new players in conversations about what happened, why and how. Another thing they do is to provide the new players with a replacement ship and then spend time right then and there teaching them in a controlled environment. This has been the single most effective recruiting tool they have ever found so it benefits both sides.

I cannot find the topic just now but a player posted here about a weekly new players PvP fleet idea they were putting together. Getting that type of thing going and getting it known around the game would be another huge benefit to the new players so you PvP vets might think about something on those lines.

Ultimately getting new players engaged in PvP and keeping them engaged will fall on we they players and that is how it should be.

What is suitable pvp?


Been in a few homes in the past, doctrines change/fits/tactics change. One crews accepted and liked setup is another crews deemed crap setup. this one sticking point really....how can ccp determine a baseline pvp setup when it doesn't exist in eve for starters. Well beyond past viral setups like ishtard doctrine and such.

Also your mix bag of missions is mixed. As mentioned you have some smarty heavy systems really or just notorious cheap shot systems for even the wary. Some places I would not go with pvp experience. bubble city 23.5/7, smarty heavy, etc....not in a fleet capable of breaking whats on the side of the gate I'd just whip out the maps and found a different route. As well...avoiding (truly lost cause) pvp is as much a part of pvp as actual fighting aspects. Why die like a muppet when you don't have to?


All this fixed really by the advised get with established pvp'ers. Learn the ropes their way....like the home stay there. Or if not, leave and see how its done another way. Somewhere in this process you tend to find your own path.

It is the players' responsibility to take over the tasks of educating and directing people in the game that is done by the game or devs in other games. That players do this is the one of the unique features of EVE and that sets it apart from other games. If it is uneven and unreliable, people need to realize that and contribute to that purpose and not just consume what others provide and complain when others stop providing. RVB is closing because no other people stepped up to take over the torch from the veterans.

I also do not think that people need to be exposed to PVP early if players do not want to PVP primarily. They need to know about that it exists, what to expect from other people with regards to it and how to live with it if you do not want to be part of it. Exposing them to unrealistic PVP situations, such as the suggestion in this thread's first post, however are not a way to expose people to PVP. It will only teach them things that are simply wrong and hard to correct in the future.

Yes they do start in a simulator, or in a training aircraft but every single on of them has an experienced instructor pilot that works with them one on one. Even veteran Navy, Marine Corp, Air Force, Army and commercial airline pilots all have instructors that work with them during training sessions whether they are in a simulator or a real aircraft. Yet these experienced instructors are one of the many things you idea removes. I agree with you that the NPE needs work, but isolating new players into systems by themselves is not the answer since it cannot and will not eliminate many of the problems new players face it only delay their exposure to them.

I'd like to see a mission where total newbros warp in to a bubbled beacon and get smartbombed back to home base in a mission. I think it would be good for a couple of reasons. (Obviously make it a solo only mission to prevent gang warping noobs to their doom)

1. Players would learn early on that you actually get 2 new ships when you're podded (rookie + capsule).
2. Players would learn early on that being podded is a game featrue - not the end of the world or some immoral act.
3. Players would be able to practice the act of being podded, getting right back in a ship and going back to play.

Upon clone reactivation the Agent could then give a brief discussion of smartbombing - the hows, whys and wheres. This would certainly prevent some mistaken losses due to lack of information. I think it would certainly kindle the 'Someday I'm going to do that to someone!' fire in a few players.




I'd also like to see a mission where the agent has you meet up with another 'capsuleer' at the mission gate. You're instructed to fleet up with your new BFF and head in for honorable team combat against those nasty npc. Upon fleeting with this NPC buddy you get conned by the game into getting an agression timer (use mtu mechanics or something). Your new BFF then wonks you. (lock the mission gate and allow rookie ships only into the mission)

1. Player learns (by doing) what an agression timer is in a controlled environment.
2. Player learns how to deal with an agressin timer (wait it out seems like a good idea at this point in their career)
3. Player learns that not everyone that 'helps' them is actually there to help them.

Again upon return to station to reship your agent dusts you off and gives you a pep talk to get back in there. The newbro also gets a little history. Agent discusses who Lofty was, what he did, and how his innovative playstyle changed the game mechanics. Give the newbro info on suspect timers. Have the agent refer to the suspect timer from time to time as it counts down. (maybe have a level 3 mission very similar where the seasoned play has the option to undock immediatly while under the suspect timer for a bigger mission reward or play it safe, wait out the timer and get a lesser reward)