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Lv4s 100-150mil/h+: Breakdown

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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1 - 2015-10-27 21:37:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
First and foremost, check this thread out. I can't hold a candle to Anize, so kudos. This is pretty much the gold standard for blitzing L4s...

This is what is achievable running standard Lv4 missions (no Burners) in a 0.6 system through a non-SoE Faction. All missions were accepted (none were declined except Enemy). Minimal salvage (basically any juicy implant that drops, which didn't happen). The results were based on a runtime of 1:22 with three characters all running Faction battleships and Ascendancy implants (so there was a few billion ISK invested to be certain). Security V and Negotiation IV. I started the clock from the time all three characters were logged in, so this includes time to form-up as well as any prep such as loading ammunition, accepting the first mission, etc.

Yes, I do realize that I'm not "doing it right". Not everyone likes Burner missions, not everyone runs in true 0.5 systems and not everyone runs for SoE (again, see above link). And I do realize I'm using three characters, but that's kind of the point - since dredging through standard Lv4s in a single character is rather monotonous.
.....

ISK total: 99,377,780 (after a few million ISK in repairs because I was lazy). This includes a 20m ISK implant (single Storyline less the 2.5m ISK for the Kernite) and a chance Crimson Harvest where I sold a Blood Raider Abaddon SKIN for 2m ISK. I sold the salvage for market value @Jita (again, because I was lazy). Munitions costs were negligible (maybe 1-2m ISK).

LP total: ~40,000 (approximate). Conversion rate with the Faction I'm using is about 1200 ISK/LP, so definitely on the low side although not abysmally low like some Factions. I'm fairly sure I could play around with various LP rewards to get this higher, but I'm erring on the side of what is easily achievable. Moving to a 0.5 system would bump up the LP rewards probably ~10%.

Grand Total: 147m ISK / 1:22 or 108m ISK/hour.

This is a list of missions (12) I was able to complete in the 1:22 timeframe. I should note that I made a point of killing everything (even when the mission objectives may have been achieved slightly earlier):
• Pirate Invasion
• The Anomaly 1/2/3
• Unauthorized Military Presence
• Gone Beserk
• Worlds Collide
• Pirate Invasion
• The Rogue Slave Trader
• Downing The Slavers
• Materials For War Preparation (Storyline)
• Blood Raiders Beacon (Crimson Harvest)

I'm going to keep running this over the course of the evening to see if I can improve upon it. I know if I take a few MTUs along and come back later (provided they survive) I'll easily add another 25-50m ISK in salvage.

Addendum: The last post contains an updated breakdown for non-Burner SoE missions.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#2 - 2015-10-27 22:30:07 UTC
I will be the first to admit that I blatantly cheat by running burners Blink

But this is good, more numbers gives a lot of context to what is possible in Hi-Sec. Especially useful to show people that want to blanket nerf Hi-Sec what's actually possible with the different HS income streams. Interested to see more numbers definitely!

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#3 - 2015-10-27 23:29:42 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
I will be the first to admit that I blatantly cheat by running burners Blink

It's not cheating if you're doing it right. Twisted

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#4 - 2015-10-27 23:56:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Here is an addition update based on an extended run of 1:53. A few caveats: First, I made a few dumb mistakes by going after the wrong mission objective in one mission and had a few unfortunate incidents where I bounced one or more ships off the acceleration gates (it happens). Second, I got rid of my light drones because I wasn't sure if they were having much of an impact due to lengthy lock times on frigates (turns out it did have a minor effect). Third, I didn't have optimal ammunition for the last mission but decided to grind through anyway (that probably extended it more than normal considering it was 5 rooms).

Mission list:
• Duo of Death (this is where I screwed up the objective)
• Stop The Thief
• The Guristas Spies
• Worlds Collide (I didn't actually go back and clear one of the second rooms)
• The Rogue Slave Trader
• Downing The Slavers
• The Wildcat Strike (didn't clear the second room as there's not really much point)
• Cargo Delivery (just got the Quafe)
• The Assault
• Angel Extravaganza (not the optimal ammo type; didn't do the bonus room)
• Evolution (Storyline, and drones are a b*tch on this one)
• Blood Raiders Beacon (Crimson Harvest)

Loot consisted of a crappy implant in Angels (not really sure why I bother; they're almost always crappy implants), another Blood Raider Abaddon SKIN and an Admiral tag from the destroyed carrier in Evolution. No repair costs this time (I decided to spring for a pair of cheap inefficient large armor repairers) and minimal ammunition costs (<2m ISK).

ISK total: 142,776,735
LP total: ~45,000 (1200 ISK/LP conversion)
Grand total: 196.8m ISK / 1:53 or 104.5m ISK/hour

So even with a few screw-ups 100m ISK/hour is still attainable. I'm averaging a warp speed of 3.83 AU/s. Would more inertia and a slightly faster align at the expense of 2.5% DPS and slightly less damage application for higher warp speed make a difference? Hard to say (maybe). How much ISK/hour that could translate into is probably negligible. Re-establishing a flight of light drones would probably net a few million more ISK/hour simply in accelerated completion time (I'll probably try some Integrated Acolytes).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#5 - 2015-10-28 02:12:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Made a few tweaks to two of the ships in my fleet to have a bit less tank/damage and more damage application overall. Also added a flight of light drones to each (minimal use in 1 or 2 missions). Running time was 1:03 (the shortest segment) but the most profitable of the group. Finally got some decent implant drops in this one. Mission list (7):
• The Assaut
• Cargo Delivery (did kill everything this time)
• Dread Pirate Scarlet (killed absolutely everything, including Scarlet twice)
• The Rogue Slave Trader
• Downing the Slavers
• Massive Attack
• The Damsel In Distress (only looted 70m Zor implant; worth it chasing after this chick occasionally...)

ISK total: 78,498,606
Loot: 80,300,000
LP total: ~32,500 (1200 ISK/LP conversion)
Grand total: 197,798,606 ISK / 1:03 or 188.3m ISK/hour

Taking the average of the last three sessions:
• 539.6m ISK total (197.8m ISK, 147.0m ISK and 194.8m ISK)
• 258 minutes total (1:22, 1:53 and 1:03)
• 2.09m ISK/minute or 125.5m ISK/hour

This is running straight Lv4s and only declining Burner and Faction-averse standing missions. Kill everything and minimal salvage (mission objectives and implants). For those that think the Zor implant is a fluke, you have two chances to drop it: Damsel and Zazzmatazz. On average I seem to drop it once per session (and on the really rare occasion two). Scarlet implants are pretty much a guaranteed 8m ISK hike. And while I was lucky to snag a pair of Crimson Harvest sites, I didn't get any of the accelerator drops, either.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2015-10-28 16:47:44 UTC
Thank you for posting this info.

I agree, not everyone runs missions for SOE in 0.5 systems, declining a majority of missions in order to get Burner missions. Also not everybody does mission blitzing.

In my opinion what you posted is much more feasible, basically the normal average for most players who run level 4 missions.

Thanks again.



DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#7 - 2015-10-28 17:18:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Choosing to do it this way is one thing, and that's down to how you want to play. More power to you for making an informed decision.

However denial that a certain something is even possible is something completely different.

You are free to choose what is 'normal', within the realm of possibility and nothing and no one is stopping you, only yourself. Pirate

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#8 - 2015-10-28 20:07:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Are the gates more golden on the other (SoE) side? I was understandably curious, so I ran a little experiment. I choose a 0.5 SoE hub way out in the middle of nowhere (or at least it sure felt like it) and spent the next hour ferrying various assets to their new forward operating base. Here were the results in a rather short running time of 0:41.

Total ISK: 51,118,687
Total Salvage: 8,330,000 (one implant)
Total LP: ~23,000 (1400 ISK/LP conversion)
Grand Total: 91,648,687 / 0:41 or 134.1m ISK/hour

All missions were within 1-4 jumps of port with the same "shoot everything" premise. Here was the short list:
• Dread Pirate Scarlet (looted implant)
• Stop The Thief
• Vengeance (this one took forever and probably skewed the results)

Why the small list? Two words: travel time (I was almost starting to nod off in warp)... Even with a warp speed that exceeded 4.0 AU/s and a 6-second align time, I spent what felt like an eternity travelling (even to the 1-jump missions). From what I recall about the main SoE hub that most players frequent, the one I settled on offers missions with fewer jumps on average. Unless you have a very fast ship (minimum warp speed of 4.0 AU/s) - you're going to find these results hard to obtain.

So are the SoE gates really more golden? Yes, it would seem that you can earn at least an additional 10-25m ISK/hour more in SoE space (provided you can meet the travel component). There is a trade-off, of course - namely that you'll be sacrificing damage application, tank and capacitor (among others) for warp speed. And you'll be quite a ways off the major trading hubs, which means you'll need a relatively fast transport to ferry your munitions and loot. As SoE systems are substantially more populated, there is a higher risk of ganking if you're running any blingy fits. And "shoot and loot" scenarios will find that there are more than a few players who have made a career of actively scanning down stray MTUs and killing them.

Addendum: What's the definition of insanity? Watching 100+ pilots in a SoE system all vie for the same Crimson Harvest site...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#9 - 2015-10-29 01:04:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Sacrificed some damage and damage application for a 20% boost in warp speed and inertia. Despite getting four (4) Zazzmatazz and Damsel missions I didn't get the juicy implant. Sometimes you get Bob; sometimes Bob gets you...

Mission completion list (rounded up to nearest 30 seconds):
• 2x Zazzmatazz (0:04 and 0:4:30 to complete)
• Stop the Thief (0:05)
• Zazzmatazz (0:04:30)
• Attack of the Drones (0:07:30)
• Gurista Spies (0:07:00)
• Angel Extravaganza (0:19:00)
• Damsel (0:07:00)

ISK total: 59,553,186
Salvage total: 1,050,000
LP total: 39,467 (x1200 ISK/LP)
Grand total: 107.9m ISK/ 00:59 or 109.7m ISK/hour.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#10 - 2015-10-29 01:15:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Ion Kirst
So let me see if I got this right.

You used 3 players to make about 100M ISK/ hour?

It seems like to me each player, or character, earned about 33M ISK / hour.

That may be another way to look at it, but that's what I see.



-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#11 - 2015-10-29 02:15:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Ion Kirst wrote:
So let me see if I got this right.
You used 3 players to make about 100M ISK/ hour?
It seems like to me each player, or character, earned about 33M ISK / hour.
That may be another way to look at it, but that's what I see.

Correct. That's definitely one way to look at it. Another is that the other two characters boost your ISK/hour as you'd only be capable of achieving less than half this with a single character for this particular play style. Even with the loot and salvage route it's hard to break the 60m ISK/hour mark. Still another way is that if I play for an hour each day I'm able to easily PLEX the cost of the two additional characters.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Garrett Osinov
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-10-29 10:44:39 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Ion Kirst wrote:
So let me see if I got this right.
You used 3 players to make about 100M ISK/ hour?
It seems like to me each player, or character, earned about 33M ISK / hour.
That may be another way to look at it, but that's what I see.

Correct. That's definitely one way to look at it. Another is that the other two characters boost your ISK/hour as you'd only be capable of achieving less than half this with a single character for this particular play style. Even with the loot and salvage route it's hard to break the 60m ISK/hour mark. Still another way is that if I play for an hour each day I'm able to easily PLEX the cost of the two additional characters.


If you enjoy doing those missions, then I guess it is ok. But if you do those missions to make isk, this is completely wrong.

It is been said many many times: BLITZ and do burners. You can make way more then you do even in high sec.
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#13 - 2015-10-29 14:36:00 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Ion Kirst wrote:
So let me see if I got this right.
You used 3 players to make about 100M ISK/ hour?
It seems like to me each player, or character, earned about 33M ISK / hour.
That may be another way to look at it, but that's what I see.

Correct. That's definitely one way to look at it. Another is that the other two characters boost your ISK/hour as you'd only be capable of achieving less than half this with a single character for this particular play style. Even with the loot and salvage route it's hard to break the 60m ISK/hour mark. Still another way is that if I play for an hour each day I'm able to easily PLEX the cost of the two additional characters.



OK, I understand that those three characters are all yours, so you made about 100M ISK per hour.

That is using 3 characters!

Sorry I'm kinda underwhelmed.

With only one character, I average about 56M ISK per hour. Which in itself is no big deal either.

What am I not seeing(?)

-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#14 - 2015-10-29 15:05:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
This is just information. Threads like these are there to inform, to say if you do X you get Y. That way newer players, or players who don't have that information can make an informed decision on what they want to do. Or even what's possible if you don't want to run burners/blitz/own a machariel, or if you have multiple characters, or if you don't want to run missions in certain areas etc.

That said if you don't agree with Y you can go try and do X and see if you get something different. "Put your time where your mouth is" so to speak Smile

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#15 - 2015-10-29 19:42:42 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
This is just information. Threads like these are there to inform, to say if you do X you get Y. That way newer players, or players who don't have that information can make an informed decision on what they want to do. Or even what's possible if you don't want to run burners/blitz/own a machariel, or if you have multiple characters, or if you don't want to run missions in certain areas etc.

Exactly this. In fact, I'd welcome and look forward to ways to improve upon any results.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#16 - 2015-11-11 00:56:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Updated this with a newer run. Here are the results:

Standard non-SOE L4 missions (0.6 system). No blitzing or Burners - kill everything (even turrets). Minimal looting (only where there's a chance to drop an implant). Triple Rattlesnake setup in mostly T2 fits (you need to be "Johnny on the Spot" in selecting targets and applying damage). Note that the total is a bit lower as two of the characters only had Security/Negotiation III.

ISK: 94.18m
Salvage: 85.2m
LP: 38,406 (1200 ISK/LP)
Grand total: 225.48m / 1:28 = 153.73m ISK/hour

Cons: Takes three characters.
Pros: You can make a lot more ISK/hour with three characters - period.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#17 - 2015-11-11 06:38:09 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
This is just information. Threads like these are there to inform, to say if you do X you get Y. That way newer players, or players who don't have that information can make an informed decision on what they want to do. Or even what's possible if you don't want to run burners/blitz/own a machariel, or if you have multiple characters, or if you don't want to run missions in certain areas etc.

Exactly this. In fact, I'd welcome and look forward to ways to improve upon any results.



What he's saying is that he can make that 100 mill an hour running anoms in null sec using only one Rattlesnake.

It's still good that high-sec does have a income stream. The cons are is that it requires multi-chars and not completely consistent unlike null sec that provides a constant isk faucet running anoms while making 100 mill isk an hour using only one char.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#18 - 2015-11-11 07:28:53 UTC
Well, it comes down to risk vs. reward.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2015-11-11 11:23:59 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:



What he's saying is that he can make that 100 mill an hour running anoms in null sec using only one Rattlesnake.

It's still good that high-sec does have a income stream. The cons are is that it requires multi-chars and not completely consistent unlike null sec that provides a constant isk faucet running anoms while making 100 mill isk an hour using only one char.


If you blitz highsec level 3 missions using a t2 fitted mach you can hit 80-90 mil an hour and you can do this all day every day without interruptions like you get in null. The best income right now via shooting comes from highsec, the only reason anoms are done is because you can run them afk although afk income will take a large hit when carriers lose their ability to use drones next year.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#20 - 2015-11-11 11:32:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:



What he's saying is that he can make that 100 mill an hour running anoms in null sec using only one Rattlesnake.

It's still good that high-sec does have a income stream. The cons are is that it requires multi-chars and not completely consistent unlike null sec that provides a constant isk faucet running anoms while making 100 mill isk an hour using only one char.


If you blitz highsec level 3 missions using a t2 fitted mach you can hit 80-90 mil an hour and you can do this all day every day without interruptions like you get in null. The best income right now via shooting comes from highsec, the only reason anoms are done is because you can run them afk although afk income will take a large hit when carriers lose their ability to use drones next year.

We've actually been having trouble hitting the 80-90mill mark with lv3s. Lv4s/burners can net you 200mill+ but requires about 3-4 times the initial isk capital that a carrier would and unless you want to replace ships regularly you can only run a single character. more and you'd end up exploding ships due to mistakes. The advantage in null is you can stack toons without much penalty.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
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