EVE General Discussion

Where there is no comparison, there is respect. If the argument was only based on other MMOs, there might be a point, but the only mention of other games has been for describing content problems and their sub effects. The description of "low value" making a character "valuable" is paradoxical at best, and completely inaccurate at worst. Training newbies could come as a much deeper process, and shallow is no complement for a sandbox game.


Feel free to list those. Beyond joining a corp, per se, orbiting beacons is much less enthralling than the average money-making experience with MMOs. That extends through many activities, which is mostly a diversity problem. There's no reason to claim that being locked out of a majority of the game is beneficial to subs, nor to gameplay, and this very argument shows the low quality of the whole claim. Anecdotally, newbies get bored of scanning-exploring as well.

Frankly? There are no counters for that the whole of the game is a huge bait-and-switch, with claims of a sandbox and gameplay-defined economy.. but with limited roles without setting up a sub plan. The idea that subs are interested in (or that the game is inherently worth) paying for lots of the game before playing how they initially fantasized ("Just $500 for a character!").. AKA experiencing a full sandbox.. is unrealistic.

Ask about motivation, design effects on game loyalty and microtransaction spending, fair opportunity, competitiveness, or just how humorous it seems implying that newbies should be scouts and tackles; but if this thread is any tell, you (all) wouldn't know or have anything to say about any of that.

Nor have they been shown to be informed.

Link please, because there's no way I'm reading through the reams of bollocks that you've posted so far.

You are quoting CCP Rise there totally out of context.

The context of what he was talking about was the older NPE which was based on setting tasks and then providing rewards for achieving those tasks. It set expectations that rewards were a normal part of the game and also created a very linear NPE where people completed steps in order to get more rewards.

Once the NPE was complete, the game is totally different to that.

In no way, shape or form was CCP Rise referring to skillpoints and it is not the same as extrinsic rewards achieved through completing a mission/agent task. They are a measure of progress, not an award for accomplishment.

The argument that skillpoints are extrinsic rewards is illogical.

Normally, I don't like to think of people who post here as trolls, but the only other option is idiot. Either way, discussing anything with an idiot or a troll is futile and makes me just as idiotic. My own fault in the end.

Who needs context when you can just quote mine?

Yes, and every online game is flawed in some way, especially these old ones that were conceived and built back in the days when there was literally nothing to model success or failure by. Despite the flaws that we can name in this game, however, the SP system works and works well, which is the point of discussion of the thread. There are 20+ MMOs of varying quality that our persistent OP can f off to to wallow in the more conventional linear leveling system.

So how does your idea of removing SP help with mastering the game? Mastery is learned over time, SP provides that time if you wish to use it. Having instant access to all ships and modules removes aspiration, is an unrealistic expectation in a persistent universe that's into its second decade, does anything but add depth and variety to experience, and it removes the rewards of success.

If what you're posting is what you truly believe, I must tell you that this is not the game you're looking for.

The game doesn't sit you in the corner, you do that for yourself.

The skill queue is a mechanism, the person who sets up the skill queue is in control. The game provides a variety of low level skills that can be trained in a very short time period to try out pretty much any activity you wish to, it encourages you to use a ship that is in-line with your ingame wallet, your experience and your game knowledge via the SP system.

You are not excluded from anything, if you want to fly a BS, or cap ships and the like as a newbie, then you have to pay for the privilege, and somebody else's time, via the character bazaar. It's not a good idea to do so though.

If CCP decide to change the SP/attributes mechanisms they're likely to replace it with something similar that allows people to fine tune their characters on the fly. SP packets are apparently a small step in this direction and a highly controversial one, what you're suggesting is a drastic change and one that could well kill Eve as a game.

Such a change would demotivate and alienate a large percentage of the loyal player base that have been playing Eve for years, the people who are proud of their achievements because they've had to work for them; those people also tend to be the ones that create content and headlines for CCP, losing them is hardly good for retention.

The more you carry on trying to push your agenda the more people will stand against it, it goes against everything Eve is. So please, do yourself, and the rest of us, a favour and start playing something else that is closer to what you desire.

There is literally nothing to refute.

You have a belief that no one else shares. Not the people who wrote the report you keep citing, not anyone here, not anyone else. You are claiming that the moon is made of blue cheese, misquoting a research study and replacing all instances of "rock" with "blue cheese" and suggesting that this somehow constitutes an argument.

That is not an argument. That is blind repetition of faith in yourself. You believe x. That's really great for you, pal. I'm happy for you. But that isn't an argument in a form that even can be refuted, so would you lay off that old saw already?

This is really awful.

Mastering is just another word for learning, yeah? There's no reason to say that a player can master the game if his ability to perform, whether industry or matching a toolset, is limited by something out of his control.

Aspiration? Success? How can there be competitiveness and strategy without the toolset? The very idea of "removing SP removes success and aspiration" is obviously shallow. SP is neither advertised, nor does it bring in large numbers of subs. That it's an extrinsic motivation should be plenty of evidence for its low level of helpfulness.

Then, the idea is that removing ship and stat availability adds depth and variety? Does it seem apparent how low quality these replies are?


Then show how they're misquoted. Neither asking questions nor contributing nor making a claim -- why post?

Here's a thing I want you to try. All of us know that you won't be able to do it. But I'm offering you a chance to try.

So the logic exercise works like this: try to phrase your idea in the form of a falsifiable hypothesis.

If you can't do that--and you definitely have not done that yet--you don't have anything even resembling an argument. You literally have nothing but opinions, beliefs, and insanity. Granted that those are powerful in modern U.S. politics, but we're a little bit better than that here on these beloved forums. At least, we were before you showed up.

Why do I post? Why in the world would anyone post without asking questions? Or making contributions? Or making a claim.

Oh. Oops. I made a claim. My claim is that you are mentally incompetent, that you are a pretentious prick, and you should rethink your life decisions.

Would you like to tell me if that is or is not a claim or a contribution? Holy shitsnacks, I think I just asked a question. Oops. My bad again.

Scary isn't it?

You know your thread is bad when people who almost invariably disagree with each other both agree on how terrible it is.