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New Structures Devblog Out - Freighter Shenanigans
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Nox52
Pterygopalatine
#1 - 2015-10-26 23:33:26 UTC
So a new structure devblog came out - check it out here

The highlights:
- lots of info on build costs and bpo/bpc - very expensive
- medium can be deployed from any industrial, large and xl need a freighter
- you can't dock caps at a medium and I don't think you can leave them at the citadel floating without others just stealing them - ie you want caps in wh space you need a large at a minimum if you don't want space coffins.


So that kinda bones wh space in general and low class in particular. Want a large? Need to get a freighter somehow - high class you have the option to bring on in from low or null (gl finding a hs freighter connection) with the pain in the posterior that is.

Otherwise your typical deployment for a large will be put up medium, haul in materials, build freighter, build large, deploy large, **** around with now useless freighter.

I mean seriously, why the hell is the freighter necessary for a large, it's just needless complexion.

Discuss
Jack Hayson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2015-10-26 23:42:56 UTC
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2015-10-27 00:50:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
all it means is you cant dock your caps in a class 1.
if you bothered building caps in your c1? i mean, sure. feel free to get upset about it i guess.

Jack Hayson wrote:
80k m^3 fits in an Orca.

cmon man, cut him some slack. math is hard.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Aelyras Altol
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2015-10-27 01:00:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Aelyras Altol
Jack Hayson wrote:
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68671/1/Structurecompositioncomponent.png

80k m^3 fits in an Orca.


Pretty sure that's a oversight that will be fixed as the dev blog makes their intentions clear: "Large and X-Large require a freighter. Yes, we do are aware this make things more complicated to deploy a Large or X-Large structure in low class wormhole space. This is intended."
Nox52
Pterygopalatine
#5 - 2015-10-27 02:45:04 UTC
Jack Hayson wrote:
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68671/1/Structurecompositioncomponent.png

80k m^3 fits in an Orca.



Ah nice spotting I missed that column.


As one of the posters above said, the dev blog main text specifically said you'll need a freighter to anchor the large. So that's a bit confusing, which one is right?

Orca would be reasonable, tho I'd still prefer it to be a dst equivalent tbh.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-10-27 03:40:20 UTC
Given I know nothing about industry and don't want to learn it, i'll just ask here; can you build these at smaller POSs?
(ie: can you build them in a WH)

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Nox52
Pterygopalatine
#7 - 2015-10-27 04:04:08 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Given I know nothing about industry and don't want to learn it, i'll just ask here; can you build these at smaller POSs?
(ie: can you build them in a WH)



The issue is not building them but deploying them - ie you need to fit them into something - ie a ship with a cargo hold big enough and deploy it from that. That's the limiting step.


So assuming you can only deploy large citadels from freighters you'd have to set up a medium citadel, haul materials and build freighter, haul in materials and assemble large citadel, put it in freighter cargohold and then deploy for the low classes. For high classes you could fly a freighter in - somewhat easier but still harder to do.


Compare this with the current chuck the stick and some mods in a industrial - t1 or dst or w/e and go anchor.



I mean it won't stop anyone that wants one in a low class from getting one, it just makes it more convoluted for absolutely no gain other than it being annoying. I thought we were meant to be moving from bad gameplay for the sake of bad gameplay/complexity.
Braden Fanguard
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-10-27 05:52:34 UTC
Nox52 wrote:
I mean it won't stop anyone that wants one in a low class from getting one, it just makes it more convoluted for absolutely no gain other than it being annoying.


The fact that it's possible will mean that someone somewhere will be rich and bored enough to build and fully equipped an X-L Citadel in a C1. I give it less than 6 months after their release before there is an xl in a c1.
Nerapa
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-10-27 10:41:14 UTC
IF you went threw the trouble to build caps in low class wormholes go threw the trouble to build a freighter?

TDSIN C5/C5 Recruiting
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-10-27 11:04:35 UTC
Nox52 wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Given I know nothing about industry and don't want to learn it, i'll just ask here; can you build these at smaller POSs?
(ie: can you build them in a WH)



The issue is not building them but deploying them - ie you need to fit them into something - ie a ship with a cargo hold big enough and deploy it from that. That's the limiting step.


So assuming you can only deploy large citadels from freighters you'd have to set up a medium citadel, haul materials and build freighter, haul in materials and assemble large citadel, put it in freighter cargohold and then deploy for the low classes. For high classes you could fly a freighter in - somewhat easier but still harder to do.


Compare this with the current chuck the stick and some mods in a industrial - t1 or dst or w/e and go anchor.



I mean it won't stop anyone that wants one in a low class from getting one, it just makes it more convoluted for absolutely no gain other than it being annoying. I thought we were meant to be moving from bad gameplay for the sake of bad gameplay/complexity.

Ok cool, so you can do it, it's just a bit harder.
I am ok with this.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Gary Bell
Therapy.
Brave Collective
#11 - 2015-10-27 12:09:26 UTC
Honestly it should be harder.. This will make it much harder to build all this is a c1 meaning a c1 will be much easier to roll and troll.. Also look at it like this. You wont need 40 large towers anymore.. so the c5 and up holes will basically be able to have one main hub and say 2 or 3 smaller ones in there systems vs fueling 40 large towers..

It should be harder..

Its no harder then hauling in and setting up 40 large towers.. its just going to be a one time thing vs 30 runs..

tbh in my opinion a large should not be a thing in c1 holes.. It isnt worth it to come kick over your sandcastle cuz it takes 40 holes to get enough ships into it to do anything.. so unless your getting paid your pretty much perfectly safe..

So.. Honestly I get your point but your not looking at the bigger picture of the fact that you are not gonna need 40 of these anymore and the logistics of setting up say a 150 man corp in a c5 in towers vs 1 of these, it is actually gonna be much easier.
Borsek
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2015-10-27 13:39:08 UTC
Live in a c1 hole. Make many money from 'free' PI and invention. Buy frieghter in greensec. Fill freighter with freighter building components. Spend day freighting in components in the holeyest of the holey, the occator (500k hole, 40k per round trip, moving 65k worth of stuff, that is min 12 trips per hole, bringing in a total of 780k m^3). Use second or third hole for more transporting of goods into hole. Set freighter to building in space gulag. Set bigger slave camp to build in gulag. They are built. Time spent: 20h for transport. ISK spent: 6 months of glorious PI on one lazy character (2Bil). You now have glorious citadel in PI-land.

Make more PI then delete character and unsubscribe because C1 holes suck.
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#13 - 2015-10-27 14:50:26 UTC
man I never thought someone from trinket's corp would be whining

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#14 - 2015-10-27 15:17:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Well let's take it by wormhole class.

C1: large is undeployable. To deploy a large, you need to build a medium citadel (drop one), build the large in the medium, build a orca or freighter in the c1, then drop the large. Rinse and repeat for the xl. (If you can build the xl in a medium, bypass large)

Why you would want to drop a 70 billion xl in a c1, I have no clue.

C2: through c4. You'd have to drop a medium, or bring a large in a orca. Build a xl in the medium/large, build a freighter, then drop the xl.

Now if you are building a 70 billion plus another 30 to 50 billion in mods for it in a c2 through 4, you can afford to build a 2 Bil freighter.

C5-C6. Well you can use whatever. I expect transport will be risky for these, assuming the xl don't fit in a jump freighter.

There is little to zero need to build a xl in wspace except to show off epeen. With the upcoming unannounced but glimpsed at wspace changes, locking this giant thing in there would turn you into a very big loot piñata target.

If I had to guess, I think they might lock the xl to being a sovereign deployable only (forgive ignorance haven't kept up past week regarding their statistics).

This in a wormhole is mildly idiotic, but who knows, it'd make a interesting c5 Freeport.

Yaay!!!!
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#15 - 2015-10-27 15:19:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Kynric
Capitals are common enough in low class space that a POS replacement should accomodate them. Finding capitals in space has been a happy thing so lets not discourage that. The potental burden of building a landlocked freighter seems rather extreme as does forcing either a self destruct or a forever trapped pilot. Given that it would be great if the mass remains in the orca range or that some lower class holes are enlarged to fit freighters. There is no concern with them rolling holes (I mean please roll holes with freighters) and otherwise it just reduces bad gameplay (space trucking.) Catching an occasional freighter for me greatly outweighs the reduction in opportunities to shoot bestowers.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#16 - 2015-10-27 16:44:37 UTC
It's trivial to get an orca over 80km3
http://imgur.com/JbbMuNx

I'm right behind you
Aelyras Altol
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2015-10-27 20:05:45 UTC
Think CCP just confirmed the 80k m3 is a oversight: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6129071#post6129071
Nox52
Pterygopalatine
#18 - 2015-10-27 22:02:37 UTC
So there you go, dev confirmed orca being able to deploy them is an oversight.




Quote:
IF you went threw the trouble to build caps in low class wormholes go threw the trouble to build a freighter?


People go to the trouble to build a cap to use it down the road as something useful. WTF am I going to do with a freighter after the large is done? It's useless and adds no value whatsoever. Actually wait, no I know, BAIT FREIGHTER! best idea ever! Still ****** gameplay.

Quote:

So.. Honestly I get your point but your not looking at the bigger picture of the fact that you are not gonna need 40 of these anymore and the logistics of setting up say a 150 man corp in a c5 in towers vs 1 of these, it is actually gonna be much easier.


I don't care about it how easier or harder it is versus POSes, the freighter mechanic is just an extra complication that adds pretty much nothing to gameplay, At least in c5 and c6 you can drive the freighter out eventually, in low class you're stuck with a useless freighter. It's complexity for complexity's sake, ie not good. It doesn't stop anyone from putting the large/xl up and gl ganking that freighter when you can easily roll yourself in and go on your merry way deploying the structure.

Quote:
man I never thought someone from trinket's corp would be whining


Thanks Jester, I'll be whining in the future about bad gameplay like I have done about the scanning changes, poses in general and when they wanted to remove k space holes from c6s. Want to subscribe to my newsletter?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2015-10-27 22:37:51 UTC
TBH, i dont see why WHers are always so entitled to get everything NS gets. The space is different, get over it.
You can't have an outpost in wspace now and I don't see why you should be able to have an XL citadel in ANY class of wspace.
There's certainly no NEED for it past the usual d!ck measuring contest.

The real issue here is that the mechanics of mooring are bad and CCP should feel bad about them, but that's not really news.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#20 - 2015-10-28 00:08:07 UTC
Just confirming we will build a damn Large Citadel even if we have to have a bait freighter to run PI in after faffing about. I mean, what's the uninsured cost of a Freighter once it dies? 600M? It's a 600M ISK low-class wormhole tax. That's nothing compared to 3 large POSs worth of fuel for a month.

As i keep saying to the lads - "Don't be a poor."

Now I can add "Don't be a poor and don't make Jester sad."

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
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