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Akidagi and the Dust-EVE link; Changes need to be made.

First post
Author
Ghost Kiasar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2015-10-26 19:28:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ghost Kiasar
So, for those who don't know, THIS happened during the assault on Akidagi. Dust514 mercs had an effect on the overall conquer percentage and managed to invul the iHub mid fight.

Now, I'm personally tickled pink that we Dust mercs had an effect on the EVE world that was totally tangible. However, /u/AnurenDark from Reddit and others voiced some valid complaints about the system in general.

They mentioned that such effects feel like "RNG" due to the nature of how Dust514 FW works. We can't decide on where we want to fight, we just get sent places. However, where we get sent depends on system activity, so we normally end up in that system if enough is going on. The big problem is that we CAN'T CONTROL IT. It's all a matter of whim.

I have posted something similar to the Dust514 CPM as well. From what I gathered in the reddit thread, everyone was happy that Dust514 got involved with the fight, albeit in a rather frustrating way.

I would like to ask the CSM to work with CCP on making FW easier to co-ordinate with both sides.

We want to be able to choose to attack or defend where the militia needs help. We want to work together with the militias to be able to systematically push our influence farther.

To couple that, /u/SpikeinLocal, a member of PFR, also had something to say on the matter. Summed up, he wanted a tab or menu so that both sides could see Dust514 district activity so that they knew where to go for bonuses or LP, opening up more room for content as both sides race to grab these benefits.

In Summary; For a game that is all about player content and freedom, we can't believe that such an important choice is left out of the players control. We want to be able to co-ordinate with capsuleers and fight with them. Capsuleers also want to make finding and helping dust mercenaries easier as well.

We want to help you guys out in space, all we need are the tools to do so.

Thanks for your time.

Director of Fatal Absolution || Matari Loyalist

#PortDust514, don't let things like this become a memory.

Shaun Iwaira
Dropbear Preservation Society
#2 - 2015-10-26 22:04:14 UTC
+1 This could use some visibility.
Kinera Anurin
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3 - 2015-10-26 23:08:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Kinera Anurin
+1

In Akidagi we had a hint of how good Dust-Eve interaction could be while we had a Dust player on our comms with us. He was so excited with every OB that came in, and was really calling for them, saying things about how they were getting torn up "down there". It made you feel bad when we couldn't keep the system secure enough to allow our OB guys to fire down to help. Plus, because he was playing on console every time he spoke up we could hear the sounds of fighting in the background which added some pretty cool immersion.

At the same time, we also experienced the most frustrating side of the relationship. Whilst in Eve we poured over 50 dudes into the system to help capture it, holding control of both the iHub and the plexes, our Dust bros didn't have the same choice. Without any firm control over where their matches take place, they were unable to bring the fight as well as we would have liked them to in Akidagi. This, combined with the fact that Eve players cannot see the results and locations of ongoing Dust matches , makes the Dust modifier feel more like a random swing than something that can be consciously altered by the efforts of players.

There really ought to be some form of mechanic by which a system can be prioritised for a "push", forcing the other side to respond in Dust or lose system percentage. Whether it's by EVE players creating mercenary contracts that pay out for every victory in a certain system, or Dust players voting/highlighting the system is not important. The important thing is that the option exists in order to create a more meaningful link between Dust and Eve in Faction Warfare. Increased visibility of ongoing Dust matches in EVE would also be good.
MidnightWyvern
The Bosena Accords
Round Table Assembly
#4 - 2015-10-27 00:43:34 UTC
Kinera Anurin wrote:
+1

In Akidagi we had a hint of how good Dust-Eve interaction could be while we had a Dust player on our comms with us. He was so excited with every OB that came in, and was really calling for them, saying things about how they were getting torn up "down there". It made you feel bad when we couldn't keep the system secure enough to allow our OB guys to fire down to help. Plus, because he was playing on console every time he spoke up we could hear the sounds of fighting in the background which added some pretty cool immersion.

At the same time, we also experienced the most frustrating side of the relationship. Whilst in Eve we poured over 50 dudes into the system to help capture it, holding control of both the iHub and the plexes, our Dust bros didn't have the same choice. Without any firm control over where their matches take place, they were unable to bring the fight as well as we would have liked them to in Akidagi. This, combined with the fact that Eve players cannot see the results and locations of ongoing Dust matches , makes the Dust modifier feel more like a random swing than something that can be consciously altered by the efforts of players.

There really ought to be some form of mechanic by which a system can be prioritised for a "push", forcing the other side to respond in Dust or lose system percentage. Whether it's by EVE players creating mercenary contracts that pay out for every victory in a certain system, or Dust players voting/highlighting the system is not important. The important thing is that the option exists in order to create a more meaningful link between Dust and Eve in Faction Warfare. Increased visibility of ongoing Dust matches in EVE would also be good.

Yes, absolutely! We've actually been asking CCP for a mechanic to choose battle locations for players who pledge loyalty to a faction for years at this point.

The old Corp Battle system that existed before Planetary Conquest was released actually listed every single Faction Warfare District and allowed the Corporation creating the battle to choose from any of them. As soon as that was done that battle would show up to all directors of every other Corporation, and they could jump on as the Defender.

The mechanics to allow location selection were actually in the game back when it was on Singularity. They only need to bring them back such that we can work better with EVE players to fight over systems.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)

Juno Reborn
Obscure Reference
#5 - 2015-10-27 02:52:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Juno Reborn
+1

It would mean I don't have to jump around so much just to drop OBs
Omid Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2015-10-27 03:22:31 UTC
+1

I don't do FW but this seems really obvious as a thing that should be.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#7 - 2015-10-27 07:25:51 UTC
there is actually a fairly simple fix to mitigate the "RNG" issue which would avoid to make your 50 man fleet wait at the ihub because some random dust match changed the system vulnerability. (even if you have a dust team matches are still fairly random from eve perspective since a matchmaker is generating them, your team might not get picked for example)


currently, dust influence changes the total VP needed to make the system vulnerable. The proposed fix would keep the total VP needed fixed, but change how much each plex contributes to the VP pool based on dust influence. Once a system is vulnerable it would stay vulnerable until someone flips it or deplexes - no surprises at the ihub. The overall dust influence would be still identical to the current implementation and would influence how fast you can flip a system, just like it does now.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Dak Rattler
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2015-10-27 08:32:01 UTC
I would like to see more tangible links between EvE and DUST... I am not quite sure how but growing DUST 514's player base may be a good start.

More players=more content and I do not think CCP have done a great service to DUST in this regard. I love when the DUST modifier is in my favor but I would like to see maybe a little recap of battles that happened to give me that modifier. Something more than a notification and a little number in the upper left hand part of my screen.

Again I don't have the fix(es) but I know CCP is smart, and good at creating good games, they can think of something.
Ghost Kiasar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2015-10-27 12:14:48 UTC
Dust side at least got a response.

Hopefully we can see some progress towards this in the future!

Director of Fatal Absolution || Matari Loyalist

#PortDust514, don't let things like this become a memory.

Arkenai Wyrnspire
Incorruptibles
#10 - 2015-10-27 12:34:20 UTC
Been wanting this for years.

Someone.

Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#11 - 2015-10-27 19:41:46 UTC
The beacon in space for a district should become visible when a battle is taking place, not only when someone warps there.
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
#12 - 2015-10-27 20:00:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuronaga
According to multiple sources within CPM 1, including Soraya Xel who said as much publicly, EVE devs pretty much don't care about Dust integration. Some of this is due to perceived personal bias, some of this is because for a long time doing anything to support Dust was considered "lost development time" as they figured the game was dying (spoiler: it's not going anywhere). And some of it, I imagine, is simply because they don't know if there's any legitimate interest coming from the majority of EVE players/CSM.



I hope there is enough pull to show them the error of their ways on this particular topic.
Ghost Kiasar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2015-10-28 05:17:14 UTC
Kuronaga wrote:
According to multiple sources within CPM 1, including Soraya Xel who said as much publicly, EVE devs pretty much don't care about Dust integration. Some of this is due to perceived personal bias, some of this is because for a long time doing anything to support Dust was considered "lost development time" as they figured the game was dying (spoiler: it's not going anywhere). And some of it, I imagine, is simply because they don't know if there's any legitimate interest coming from the majority of EVE players/CSM.



I hope there is enough pull to show them the error of their ways on this particular topic.


I talked with Rattati today in the skype chat. Apparently they are both discussing changes to FW.

Not sure what changes, but he definitely looked at the thread when I asked him too. I hope they consider these changes.

As for the underlined, that is the point of these threads. If EVE and Dust want a better link, we need to let them know about it.

Director of Fatal Absolution || Matari Loyalist

#PortDust514, don't let things like this become a memory.

Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
#14 - 2015-10-29 00:00:26 UTC
Oh, Rattati has been all for it.

Unfortunately it's the EVE devs you gota win over :/
Ghost Kiasar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2015-10-29 20:23:33 UTC
Kuronaga wrote:
Oh, Rattati has been all for it.

Unfortunately it's the EVE devs you gota win over :/


Hence why this thread was made.

CCP listens to the CSM more than the Dust department.

Director of Fatal Absolution || Matari Loyalist

#PortDust514, don't let things like this become a memory.

Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#16 - 2015-10-30 19:31:46 UTC
A compelling case. I'll see if there is anything I can do, though I don't know much about faction warfare.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT

Ghost Kiasar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2015-11-01 01:36:12 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
A compelling case. I'll see if there is anything I can do, though I don't know much about faction warfare.


<3

Director of Fatal Absolution || Matari Loyalist

#PortDust514, don't let things like this become a memory.

Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
#18 - 2015-11-03 02:27:24 UTC
Happy to see some CSM love on the Link, even if its just one guy right now.

I don't think we've had that for two cycles.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2015-11-23 16:04:48 UTC
It's probably made that way so you can't "lose grind" your way to a victory by using "alts" in the opposing militia ground force.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#20 - 2015-11-23 20:04:00 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
A compelling case. I'll see if there is anything I can do, though I don't know much about faction warfare.



Dust has been made now. it exists. It must surely be obvious to everyone that the chance of any kind of ongoing success for it lies with following through on the vision of integration with the EVE universe. This is a life support issue for Dust, and a nice little quirk at least, an interesting addition of good complexity at best for EVE.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

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