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Dev blog: Building your Citadel, one block at a time

First post First post
Author
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#21 - 2015-10-26 16:27:34 UTC
Aryth wrote:
These seem awfully cheap at the medium level given their really small vulnerability window. Is there a concern we end up with a very spammable and essentially throwaway level of citadels?


They are destructible, so the smaller sizes should be relatively spammable. Also remember 600m ISK it the base hull price.
Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2015-10-26 16:28:25 UTC
We want to point out that anyone buying the BPO with these stats would need to be ********.

Imagine 6 are bought day one. How many BPCs in 1 year? Heh. Yeah....

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.

Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#23 - 2015-10-26 16:29:14 UTC
Saede Riordan wrote:

CCPlease. Give us low-class wormholers so sort of break here. You're essentially saying that we'll need to build an otherwise completely useless freighter

The more interesting question is, how to build a freighter when there are no more towers.

Also it also means that if you are invaded, the enemy has to build a freighter before he can build a citadel.
Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2015-10-26 16:30:57 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Aryth wrote:
These seem awfully cheap at the medium level given their really small vulnerability window. Is there a concern we end up with a very spammable and essentially throwaway level of citadels?


They are destructible, so the smaller sizes should be relatively spammable. Also remember 600m ISK it the base hull price.


I think the greater concern is the cheap cost with the very tiny vuln window per week. You can effectively make these stagers that are immune to being blown up. POS today are attackable anytime and you can eliminate hostile stagers. These things will have some tiny window in the middle of a week night and immune the rest of the week. A bit overpowered. Even at 3x the cost shown it would be overpowered.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.

CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#25 - 2015-10-26 16:31:35 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
What bonus is outpost construction V going to give people if I is all you need to build an XL citadel?


That is a good point, thanks for bringing it out. We should probably have a bonus tied to it. No promises though.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#26 - 2015-10-26 16:34:06 UTC
Querns wrote:
I'm glad to see citadels moving forward. The market speculation should be very nice, as a bonus.

I, of course, have to ask again -- has there been any discussion on how legacy outposts will be handled at their end of life? It would be nice to know, so we can act in the short term.


So far, the plan is the same that the one shown during the first dev blog on structures.

The interesting part however is that Outposts can be depreciated faster than Starbases, since they don't offer reactions. More details as we get them.
Azahar Ortenegro
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2015-10-26 16:34:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Azahar Ortenegro
So you're entirely removing Small and Medium POSes. Bad move, small corps won't be able to settle as easily as before. And you're putting the BPO price at 6B instead of 500 millions for a Large POS (250 for a Medium, 125 for a Small.)

Nice way to tell part of the players "Get the **** out.", taking what we already have and demanding 6B (plus the prod cost \o/) to get it back.
M3phistopheles
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#28 - 2015-10-26 16:34:20 UTC
Quote:
A Medium structure hull may be deployed from an Industrial, Large and X-Large require a freighter. Yes, we do are aware this make things more complicated to deploy a Large or X-Large structure in low class wormhole space. This is intended.


Why is it intended?
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#29 - 2015-10-26 16:36:33 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Are those research/copy times in minutes or in seconds? Can't seem to find anything online to clarify those units.


Seconds. If those were in minutes you would be waiting 1805 days to manufacture a X-L Citadel Twisted.
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#30 - 2015-10-26 16:36:38 UTC
Torgeir Hekard wrote:
Saede Riordan wrote:

CCPlease. Give us low-class wormholers so sort of break here. You're essentially saying that we'll need to build an otherwise completely useless freighter

The more interesting question is, how to build a freighter when there are no more towers.

Also it also means that if you are invaded, the enemy has to build a freighter before he can build a citadel.


This is for larges specifically which is only important for the larger low class groups that have dozens of capitals needing to be stored. Mediums will be able to be brought in with transports, so an attacking group can just use medium citadels.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2015-10-26 16:37:28 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Querns wrote:
I'm glad to see citadels moving forward. The market speculation should be very nice, as a bonus.

I, of course, have to ask again -- has there been any discussion on how legacy outposts will be handled at their end of life? It would be nice to know, so we can act in the short term.


So far, the plan is the same that the one shown during the first dev blog on structures.

The interesting part however is that Outposts can be depreciated faster than Starbases, since they don't offer reactions. More details as we get them.

Any idea on how reimbursement for outposts and upgrades will occur?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Eodp Ellecon
Air
The Initiative.
#32 - 2015-10-26 16:40:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Eodp Ellecon
"You know that to build really tall buildings and such, cranes are built on site and taken down when the building is done. Sacrificing a freighter to get that medium structure seems like small potatoes when it comes to wormholes"


"A Medium structure hull may be deployed from an Industrial, Large and X-Large require a freighter" Dev Blog

So a Medium can be done from a DST.
Freighter does Large (and then can dock)

Reading w/o panic is hard.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#33 - 2015-10-26 16:42:08 UTC
Aryth wrote:
What are the units per run of the fuel block bpo?


As yes, forgot that. Same as existing fuel block blueprints.

You get 40 fuel blocks per manufacturing run. You have a maximum of 200 copy run.
Rek Seven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2015-10-26 16:43:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
I'm pretty disappointed with the list of fittings. I was hoping that we would be able to do something cool like cloak the structure or at least make it invisible to D-scan, so we could have a secret base somewhere... Cry

I may have missed it but will XL Citadels be deployable in wormhole space?
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#35 - 2015-10-26 16:43:50 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
So this is linked in the devblog:

CSM Citadel FAQ – A detailed FAQ covering all important aspects of the new structures. Compiled by the CSM in conjunction with CCP. Available in English only. - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mEbMx9xUXje3KH4AppvcjSSoALUVtVEaK6ZZ-zy2Lrs/edit?pli=1

Yet in this, there's such things as:

Quote:
How may I attack someone's Citadel?
Medium, Large and X-Large structures will use a version of the Sovereignty capture mechanic, which means they will only be attacked through the use of the Entosis module.


What information in here is reliable and what is not? Clearly it's not up to date.


Outdated. They use HP, pew pew and a maximum DPS cap.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2015-10-26 16:48:50 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Are those research/copy times in minutes or in seconds? Can't seem to find anything online to clarify those units.


Seconds. If those were in minutes you would be waiting 1805 days to manufacture a X-L Citadel Twisted.

As Aryth pointed out this basically means that when you buy a 700b bpo, you make copies every 5 days (before bonuses). That means a single BPO will effectively flood the market with copies. It means that anyone buying a bpo will have more copies than they can possibly use, which they'll sell in jita...driving down the cost of a bpc to miniscule prices on your 700b bpo. It means it's a really dumb purchase and it's hard to even justify as a means to ensure you always have the ability to build an XL, or to make a profit, or really any reason. Its especially odd how much less time it is to copy these things than a titan bpo, which requires copies to be usable, and which costs 1/10th of what this costs.

It puts these bpos in a really awkward spot for a 700b investment that just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. You don't get exclusivity, you don't have any hope of a profit, I'm not sure why anyone would buy one instead of waiting around for someone to not do the math.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#37 - 2015-10-26 16:53:47 UTC
Saede Riordan wrote:

This is for larges specifically which is only important for the larger low class groups that have dozens of capitals needing to be stored. Mediums will be able to be brought in with transports, so an attacking group can just use medium citadels.

If you've been building "dozens" of capitals you can build one more.
Chavez Domingo
Vision Inc
Hole Control
#38 - 2015-10-26 16:53:59 UTC
What about SMA*s? Do we get a Corporate Shiphangar or something like that? Many W-Space Corps are sharing their ships with their Corp
Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#39 - 2015-10-26 16:54:02 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Are those research/copy times in minutes or in seconds? Can't seem to find anything online to clarify those units.


Seconds. If those were in minutes you would be waiting 1805 days to manufacture a X-L Citadel Twisted.

As Aryth pointed out this basically means that when you buy a 700b bpo, you make copies every 5 days (before bonuses). That means a single BPO will effectively flood the market with copies. It means that anyone buying a bpo will have more copies than they can possibly use, which they'll sell in jita...driving down the cost of a bpc to miniscule prices on your 700b bpo. It means it's a really dumb purchase and it's hard to even justify as a means to ensure you always have the ability to build an XL, or to make a profit, or really any reason. Its especially odd how much less time it is to copy these things than a titan bpo, which requires copies to be usable, and which costs 1/10th of what this costs.

It puts these bpos in a really awkward spot for a 700b investment that just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. You don't get exclusivity, you don't have any hope of a profit, I'm not sure why anyone would buy one instead of waiting around for someone to not do the math.


I will point out we debated even mentioning this point. But as it stand I can see no one with any economic sense buying one of these BPOs. We plan to watch the market day 1 to see how many sold and forecast out.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.

CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#40 - 2015-10-26 16:57:50 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Are those research/copy times in minutes or in seconds? Can't seem to find anything online to clarify those units.


Seconds. If those were in minutes you would be waiting 1805 days to manufacture a X-L Citadel Twisted.

As Aryth pointed out this basically means that when you buy a 700b bpo, you make copies every 5 days (before bonuses). That means a single BPO will effectively flood the market with copies. It means that anyone buying a bpo will have more copies than they can possibly use, which they'll sell in jita...driving down the cost of a bpc to miniscule prices on your 700b bpo. It means it's a really dumb purchase and it's hard to even justify as a means to ensure you always have the ability to build an XL, or to make a profit, or really any reason. Its especially odd how much less time it is to copy these things than a titan bpo, which requires copies to be usable, and which costs 1/10th of what this costs.

It puts these bpos in a really awkward spot for a 700b investment that just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. You don't get exclusivity, you don't have any hope of a profit, I'm not sure why anyone would buy one instead of waiting around for someone to not do the math.


We can always tweak copy times around, those numbers aren't final, just a first draft. Which number would you have in mind?