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Self destruct disabled by warp disrupt/scram
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Xtover
Cold Moon Destruction.
#61 - 2012-01-05 17:31:59 UTC
Nestara Aldent wrote:

In recent PL vs -A- titan showdown two -A- titans were destroyed by PL and appeared on the killmail. Other six self-destructed.


Wait what?

-A- lost 2, but that was it.

What fantasy world did you conjure up 6 self destructing titans?
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2012-01-05 20:09:37 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
You're comparing situations that are, quite simply, not comparable. Or relevant.

No, you are just not getting it. Train Reading Comprehension to at least 2.

1. You can gank a hulk and win a KM. YOU WIN in this situation.

You can attack a carrier, but they self destruct before the final blow. YOU LOSE in this situation and rage.

2. You can attack another BC in a BC 1v1 fight. YOU WIN in this situation.

You attack a freighter, but they self destruct before the final blow. YOU LOSE in this situation.

See where its going? Doesn't matter what ships are involved, so long as in one situation you win and the other you lose because they opted for self destruction. Valid enough reason to leave SD as it is because nothing changes either way, in one situation a ship is destroyed and in the other...its destroyed by by the pilots own hand but it hits you right in the nuts and square in your pride that you failed.

Failure is something that makes any human upset, if you are upset you post about it and they suggest that it needs to be changed to CCP which is what this entire thread is about...because you are upset that someone won so easily over you (which you lose) just as easily as you can gank a hulk to feel like a winner Roll
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-01-05 20:30:48 UTC
Or you could be less of a spiteful child and try to look at what makes for good gameplay, i.e. give out killmail to the guy that has the highest damage and isn't an NPC. This'd incentivize people more to fight to the end in the hope of making their deaths just that little bit costlier.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#64 - 2012-01-05 22:54:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Covert Kitty
Quote:
If someone decides to self destruct to deny a killmail and loot it is valid tactic that encourages you to bring more DPS to do the job in time.

So in other words your saying that despite having tons of ways to avoid pvp, capital pilots should have the option to deny pvp'ers a record of their kill and any loot that might have been dropped. This, while encouraging blobbing, because apparently small gang pvp is something Eve has too much of.

I don't agree with those incentives.

Quote:
The scuttling of ships, has been a stead fast action by captains for hundreds of years. I see no reason that this action cannot be allowed in game

Scuttling of ships is not done *in the middle of combat*. A better comparison would be blowing ships up inside of a doomed POS to deny the enemy the ability to take and use those ships. Which I'm fine with, so yes, have SD disabled by targeted warp disruption, that seems like a good way of handling it, while still permitting it in logical cases.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#65 - 2012-01-06 05:42:21 UTC
How about changing the self-destruct so that the remaining EHP is divided equally among all pilots with aggression against the ship, so that the killmail puts all aggressors on it? Then have the ship drop or destroy modules and cargo just as if it had been popped properly. Basically renders self-destruct as a time and ammo saver for the aggressors. Also, still lets a pilot's pod get out before a bubble goes up.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Endeavour Starfleet
#66 - 2012-01-06 06:48:56 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
How about changing the self-destruct so that the remaining EHP is divided equally among all pilots with aggression against the ship, so that the killmail puts all aggressors on it? Then have the ship drop or destroy modules and cargo just as if it had been popped properly. Basically renders self-destruct as a time and ammo saver for the aggressors. Also, still lets a pilot's pod get out before a bubble goes up.


No no and no....

SD is a way to deny the enemy loot and a KM. If you cant kill it within the 2 min timer it is your own damn fault.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2012-01-06 08:07:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
No no and no....

SD is a way to deny the enemy loot and a KM. If you cant kill it within the 2 min timer it is your own damn fault.

Again with the shortsightedness.

Essentially, what you're advocating is a continuation of the mentality "oh, I might not survive this encounter, better selfdestruct my whole fleet like a ******* coward to 'save face' because of my precious, precious kill/death ratio". Do you not realize that what you're doing, is make his job even easier and cheaper? He's not having to expend the ammo to kill you, and his losses are also minimized, whereas your side still gets ****** in the ass, and for what? "To spite him"?

Making all kills, whether initiated through self destruct or through a player shooting the final shot, give out killmails, what you'd do is remove the incentive for people to do this, and maybe make them act more like they have a pair and trying to actually shoot their way out. Or at the very least go down fighting, and not acting like a bunch of girls bawling their eyes out just because they broke a nail.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#68 - 2012-01-06 08:23:33 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
You're comparing situations that are, quite simply, not comparable. Or relevant.

No, you are just not getting it. Train Reading Comprehension to at least 2.

1. You can gank a hulk and win a KM. YOU WIN in this situation.

You can attack a carrier, but they self destruct before the final blow. YOU LOSE in this situation and rage.

2. You can attack another BC in a BC 1v1 fight. YOU WIN in this situation.

You attack a freighter, but they self destruct before the final blow. YOU LOSE in this situation.

See where its going? Doesn't matter what ships are involved, so long as in one situation you win and the other you lose because they opted for self destruction. Valid enough reason to leave SD as it is because nothing changes either way, in one situation a ship is destroyed and in the other...its destroyed by by the pilots own hand but it hits you right in the nuts and square in your pride that you failed.

Failure is something that makes any human upset, if you are upset you post about it and they suggest that it needs to be changed to CCP which is what this entire thread is about...because you are upset that someone won so easily over you (which you lose) just as easily as you can gank a hulk to feel like a winner Roll

GG on not countering any of my points, and merely reiterating your own extremely poor arguments.

If this is the best anyone can come up with against lengthening capital ship SD timers then it should have been done two years ago, when this issue was first raised in the CSM.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2012-01-06 09:41:35 UTC
Xtover wrote:
Nestara Aldent wrote:

In recent PL vs -A- titan showdown two -A- titans were destroyed by PL and appeared on the killmail. Other six self-destructed.


Wait what?

-A- lost 2, but that was it.

What fantasy world did you conjure up 6 self destructing titans?



As far as YOU know
Dr Karsun
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
#70 - 2012-01-06 11:48:24 UTC
I don't see any point in disallowing self destructing. EVE is not about KMs, it's about the loss it self. It doesn't really matter if ther's a km or not, at least for me. The ship is destroyed, you can go hang out in a bar and drink some beers to it.

"Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363976#post363976
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-01-06 12:17:13 UTC
Who's talking about disallowing self destructing?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#72 - 2012-01-06 13:39:22 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Who's talking about disallowing self destructing?

The OP, talking about disabling SD when a scram is active.


I don't really care about KMs being provided for SD. My personal opinion though is that KMs shoudl be given to the one who laid the final blow, in the case of the SDer, him.

However, SD should take longer in a Cap than in a frigate...
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-01-06 13:47:38 UTC
Oh, that. I remember reading that somewhere and going "...well, that's illogical. *forgets about it*".

As to time to SD, I dunno. It could be argued that all ships are manufactured with a self destruct sequence in them, and once they go off, they go off.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lucjan
Deutzer Freiheit
#74 - 2012-01-06 17:42:49 UTC
-1
Viable tactic
The end.
CraftyCroc
Fraternity Alliance Please Ignore
#75 - 2012-01-12 00:15:59 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
leviticus ander wrote:
why not just get them to fix the kill mail system? if you would still get a KM for doing damage to a ship that self destructed, then I think a lot of this whining would be averted. make it so it just checks for who did the most damage, and give them the KM.


Because it encourages group play. Just bring enough DPS to kill the target before its timer runs out.


Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
No need to change the timers. The current system is working.

If you do not have the DPS to bring down the target in a few minutes the pilot deserves the chance to deny you loot and KM. So you need to drop him fast if you want that jucy loot and KM. Again it encourages group play.

And if someone is seriously passing up a chance to drop an enemy or neut capital because they wont get loot and KM.. That is well silly. Bring friends with enough DPS.



You clearly like to blob ?

The main point of this thread, and every other thread debating the SD mechanic is that it discourages small gang pvp and encourages blobs.

200man fleets are not the way to learn pvp. Anchor + shoot broadcasts....

Try flying in 4/5 man gangs... try taking on larger fleets.... try REAL pvp

(oh and I took a look on BC. I am aware your an alt but thats because hiding your main is probably best when trolling.)

FYI - I lol'd when I read your name...

Endeavour Starfleet... clearly your a ponce... perhaps you should focus a little more on RL then trolling threads on the EVE forums.