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200mill/h+ Lv4s, typical 3h run breakdown
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Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#61 - 2015-10-21 13:28:28 UTC
To people saying thermodynamics 5 is not needed. It is not required, but having it can really be the difference between a loss and win.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#62 - 2015-10-21 19:46:49 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
To people saying thermodynamics 5 is not needed. It is not required, but having it can really be the difference between a loss and win.

probably some it depends on ship, fit, and other skills. Anything with a daredevil, probably not going to make a difference, at least not on the guns. The one that mostly concerns me is vs the burner daredevil. my rockets are usually pretty close to where I want to stop heating when it goes down. not sure what the result would be if I stopped heating sooner. I have burned out my ECM on my kite garmur when on an unlucky streak, although with 20s cycles it takes a while to burn out, not sure what effect thermo4 would have. and on the serpentis base I've come close to burning out my MWD, but that isn't a condition for success just something that helps you finish a little faster. either have one less heated mwd cycle or need to spread them out more.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#63 - 2015-10-24 20:35:36 UTC
So I did say I was going to do another 3h run this week so here's the data. This time I ran fewer normal blitzable lv4s (So skipped some assault/attack of drones/etc.) and I managed to not lose a ship. On the downside I got absolutely garbage for drops, total of 16mill with half of that from the one Blood base. I got some faction stuff derping around during the week but I just cant seem to get any good stuff when I'm actually doing a 3h run. The burners themselves is a bit of a mixed bag, some nice ones and some crappy ones and I think 3 of them was 4 jumps out but acceptable.

I also paid attention to my faction and agent standings. Agent standings pretty much stayed in the positive for the most part, ending up at 2.77 effective (around what I started with) and faction standings went from 8.04 to 7.94 effective. I declined 2 storyline missions. Didn't feel like running any and want to keep the agent available in case I get a Materials for War.

Time starts: 17:00
Time end: 20:00

Same thing as last time, taken from accepting first mission to docking and completing last mission.

Isk Start: 215 936 581 isk
Isk End: 495 510 940 isk

Isk Tot : 279 574 359 isk


LP Start: 56 547
LP End: 324 209

LP Tot: 267662

Just under 20mill and 15k LP better than last try. Getting in an extra burner base pretty much covers the difference.

No changes regarding skills except for getting cal cruiser 5 so the one blood base I ran went a lot easier than usual.

LP Exchange rate I will use the same as my last example. Currently there is an upwards spike in LP value but I'm pretty sure it's temporary so we'll go with 1 679isk/LP.

Other income/expense: 16.5mill This is mostly scrap modules and burner loot. half of it is from the guaranteed loot from the Ashimu burner. The rest is meta modules and faction ammo. Knock off 5.5mill from the isk/h if you feel it shouldn't be included.

Isk/h comes out to 248 507 822. Total worth 745 523 467 Isk.

Burners    Normal    

Angel Base     -    17:00
 -    The assault    
 -    Recon 1    
Serpentis Base     -    
Jaguar     -    
Hawk     -    
Curor     -    
Enyo     -    

Jaguar     -    18:02
Vengeance     -    
Serpentis Base     -    
Dramiel     -    
Dramiel     -    
 -    Recon 1    
 -    Attack of the drones    
Enyo     -    

Angel Base     -    19:02
Daredevil     -    
Jaguar     -    
Blood Base     -    
Worm     -    
 -    The Assault    
Daredevil     -    
 -     -    20:00

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#64 - 2015-10-25 20:04:40 UTC
So the only real question is... When are Burner missions getting nerfed?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#65 - 2015-10-25 20:14:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
So the only real question is... When are Burner missions getting nerfed?

It's self regulating. if enough people run them properly then SOE LP value will automatically go down. So far Stratios prices have been rock solid stable since they were introduced (Except for the current price spike).

Why do you feel it needs to be nerfed? Keep in mind that burners don't inject much isk into the economy, compared to nullsec ratting for example.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#66 - 2015-10-25 20:30:18 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
So the only real question is... When are Burner missions getting nerfed?

It's self regulating. if enough people run them properly then SOE LP value will automatically go down. So far Stratios prices have been rock solid stable since they were introduced (Except for the current price spike).

Why do you feel it needs to be nerfed? Keep in mind that burners don't inject much isk into the economy, compared to nullsec ratting for example.



Why do you keep saying there is a Stratios price spike?

You don't have a clue do you? Stratios is 271mil in Jita, 276mil in Amarr and the price never changed in Dodixie or Hek.

And yes, SoE LP is getting nerfed. CCP is partnering to do a quasi folding@home type thing where they are going to reward us with SoE lp for using our computers through their game.

But that nerf isn't even needed since don't look now, probes and probe launchers have dropped below 1600isk/lp barrier.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#67 - 2015-10-25 20:38:16 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
So the only real question is... When are Burner missions getting nerfed?

It's self regulating. if enough people run them properly then SOE LP value will automatically go down. So far Stratios prices have been rock solid stable since they were introduced (Except for the current price spike).

Why do you feel it needs to be nerfed? Keep in mind that burners don't inject much isk into the economy, compared to nullsec ratting for example.



Why do you keep saying there is a Stratios price spike?

You don't have a clue do you? Stratios is 271mil in Jita, 276mil in Amarr and the price never changed in Dodixie or Hek.

And yes, SoE LP is getting nerfed. CCP is partnering to do a quasi folding@home type thing where they are going to reward us with SoE lp for using our computers through their game.

But that nerf isn't even needed since don't look now, probes and probe launchers have dropped below 1600isk/lp barrier.

Sold multiple stratios BPCs for 275mill this weekend: over 2k isk/lp
Sold stacks of probe launchers this weekend (to buy orders) for 36mill each: over 1800isk/lp
Buy orders for probe launchers are CURRENTLY at 35mill each, in Jita: 1762 isk/lp

See, I told you you were going to hurt yourself.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#68 - 2015-10-25 21:06:04 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
So the only real question is... When are Burner missions getting nerfed?

It's self regulating. if enough people run them properly then SOE LP value will automatically go down. So far Stratios prices have been rock solid stable since they were introduced (Except for the current price spike).

Why do you feel it needs to be nerfed? Keep in mind that burners don't inject much isk into the economy, compared to nullsec ratting for example.



Why do you keep saying there is a Stratios price spike?

You don't have a clue do you? Stratios is 271mil in Jita, 276mil in Amarr and the price never changed in Dodixie or Hek.

And yes, SoE LP is getting nerfed. CCP is partnering to do a quasi folding@home type thing where they are going to reward us with SoE lp for using our computers through their game.

But that nerf isn't even needed since don't look now, probes and probe launchers have dropped below 1600isk/lp barrier.

Sold multiple stratios BPCs for 275mill this weekend: over 2k isk/lp
Sold stacks of probe launchers this weekend (to buy orders) for 36mill each: over 1800isk/lp
Buy orders for probe launchers are CURRENTLY at 35mill each, in Jita: 1762 isk/lp

See, I told you you were going to hurt yourself.



You are confusing the price YOU got for an item and market price. I can sell a plex for 10bil isk if someone isn't paying attention. But I wouldn't go on the forums trying to convince people everyone else could too.

And at 36mil isk, a probe launcher from Sister's of Eve actually doesn't get more than 1800isk/lp
Take out the 9.6mil you pay CCP, the 14.4k in LP and the cost of the launcher you need to turn, then your market costs... and this is at your fake price, 34.5mil is where I see the SELL orders at.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#69 - 2015-10-25 21:14:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
At 36mill
36 000 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000
= 26 375 000

26 375 000 isk / 14 400 LP
= 1 832isk/lp

At 34.5mill
34 500 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000
= 25 375 000

25 375 000 isk / 14400 LP
= 1 727 isk/lp

Having some trouble with math are we?

Also, putting up a contract with a BPC in it at a stated price and someone buying it on their own (no sitting in jita spamming contracts for me) because it's the cheapest offer available is suddenly not the market anymore. Good to know.

That said Stratios BPCs are settling down now it seems. Still made a good amount of profit.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#70 - 2015-10-25 21:16:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Market McSelling Alt
Anize Oramara wrote:
At 36mill
36 000 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000
= 26 375 000

26 375 000 isk / 14 400 LP
= 1 832isk/lp

At 34.5mill
34 500 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000
= 25 375 000

25 375 000 isk / 14400 LP
= 1 727 isk/lp

Having some trouble with math are we?


No, but you are. Taxes + original item that needs converting puts you under 1800 at 36mil

Having trouble reading what is required to MAKE AND SELL a SoE Launcher?

Also, I said 34.5mil was the SELL orders. You gonna let it sit there .01 gaming all day?

Oooo I see the price is going up as I was typing. So I would advise anyone who has em to sell em, because looks like you could dump them above the 1800 mark for a short while.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#71 - 2015-10-25 21:19:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
At 36mill
36 000 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000
= 26 375 000

26 375 000 isk / 14 400 LP
= 1 832isk/lp

At 34.5mill
34 500 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000
= 25 375 000

25 375 000 isk / 14400 LP
= 1 727 isk/lp

Having some trouble with math are we?


No, but you are. Taxes + original item that needs converting puts you under 1800 at 36mil

Having trouble reading what is required to MAKE AND SELL a SoE Launcher?

Also, I said 34.5mil was the SELL orders. You gonna let it sit there .01 gaming all day?

Oooo I see the price is going up as I was typing. So I would advise anyone who has em to sell em, because looks like you could dump them above the 1800 mark for a short while.

Roll Finally bothered logging into eve and actually checking your facts?

Also my maths include the price of the launcher used to actually make the probe launchers.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#72 - 2015-10-25 21:21:43 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
At 36mill
36 000 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000
= 26 375 000

26 375 000 isk / 14 400 LP
= 1 832isk/lp

At 34.5mill
34 500 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000
= 25 375 000

25 375 000 isk / 14400 LP
= 1 727 isk/lp

Having some trouble with math are we?


No, but you are. Taxes + original item that needs converting puts you under 1800 at 36mil

Having trouble reading what is required to MAKE AND SELL a SoE Launcher?

Also, I said 34.5mil was the SELL orders. You gonna let it sit there .01 gaming all day?

Oooo I see the price is going up as I was typing. So I would advise anyone who has em to sell em, because looks like you could dump them above the 1800 mark for a short while.

Roll Finally bothered logging into eve and actually checking your facts?


Fact is you could be one of the very lucky people to get a bite at 36mil... but sell orders are at 34.1mil

And there isn't very many between 34mil and 33mil.

So if you have a lot of LP, you are going to run out of buyers before you drop below 1700isk/lp.

Again, you want to talk consistent and lucrative products, then give us a couple of one item sales as a poster child. ridiculous

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#73 - 2015-10-25 21:28:30 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
At 36mill
36 000 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000
= 26 375 000

26 375 000 isk / 14 400 LP
= 1 832isk/lp

At 34.5mill
34 500 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000
= 25 375 000

25 375 000 isk / 14400 LP
= 1 727 isk/lp

Having some trouble with math are we?


No, but you are. Taxes + original item that needs converting puts you under 1800 at 36mil

Having trouble reading what is required to MAKE AND SELL a SoE Launcher?

Also, I said 34.5mil was the SELL orders. You gonna let it sit there .01 gaming all day?

Oooo I see the price is going up as I was typing. So I would advise anyone who has em to sell em, because looks like you could dump them above the 1800 mark for a short while.

Roll Finally bothered logging into eve and actually checking your facts?


Fact is you could be one of the very lucky people to get a bite at 36mil... but sell orders are at 34.1mil

And there isn't very many between 34mil and 33mil.

So if you have a lot of LP, you are going to run out of buyers before you drop below 1700isk/lp.

Again, you want to talk consistent and lucrative products, then give us a couple of one item sales as a poster child. ridiculous

The price for all SOE items have been spiking this weekend, I said that multiple times, then you challange this statement, then you fall back on it yourself. I'm getting alittle dizzy here myself.

My calculations on isk/h are STILL BASED on my normal sub 1700isk/h LP rates. This has not changed even if I've been able to convert over a million LP at a much Higher rate over this weekend. You are desperately trying to build a strawman and it's getting a little sad.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2015-10-25 22:19:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
The point is simple really you have two main choices if you do not run a market alt:

a) try and optimize your time so you have as much as possible for mission running and dump to market buy or sell at the long term average. The time saved chasing market fluctuations can be used for running more missions. In many cases yu make more this way than wasting time chasing optimal market prices.

b) try and optimise your sales. For example SOE prices did spike over the weekend but erratically, I sold some 300 mill plus Stratios in Amarr and some expanded probe launchers for 44 mill in Rens. Do you make more than dumping to market and using the time to mission instead ? Sometimes. This weekend I made a few hundred mill extra for wasting maybe 40 minutes. Other times I would have been far better off with more missioning.

There is an opportunity cost in chasing market fluctuations - the ISK you would have otherwise generated missioning rather than transporting and mucking about.

The more ISK/hr you make missioning the less benefit you will get chasing market fluctuations.
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#75 - 2015-10-26 01:16:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ion Kirst
I like doing stuff like this, so I thought I’d post some numbers too.

These numbers are not as impressive. I tried to do some L4s as fast as I could, and using the luck of the draw in accepting missions. I did not salvage anything. It's hard to blitz in a brick.

I set out to do 3 hours of L4 missions. I stopped after 2 hours (119m39s), my head started to hurt. All missions were ran with a Golem, except for the recon missions where I used a Tengu. I turned down 3 burner missions and one story line.

So after 2 hours I ran 10 missions. I made 41,444 in LPs. At 1500 ISK per LP, that is about equal to 62.2M ISK. The rewards and bounties equaled 51.7M ISK, for a grand total of 113.9M. Which is about 56.9M ISK per hour. (minus the cost of ammo.)

I could post the missions, but I don’t feel it’s necessary. This is just what could be expected at the lower end of the scale by not really blitzing or messing with Burners.

-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#76 - 2015-10-26 01:41:56 UTC
uuhhhmm.. do I need to mention there are 2 different sisters probe launchers?

the core ones are selling for 36m+ and buying at 35mil in jita right now. the expanded ones are 34.8/33.1. as they have slightly different uses, ie core are only useful for finding sites and have very low fitting costs, where the expanded ones can be used to probe out ships or sites but has very high cpu fitting cost.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#77 - 2015-10-26 01:52:41 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
uuhhhmm.. do I need to mention there are 2 different sisters probe launchers?

the core ones are selling for 36m+ and buying at 35mil in jita right now. the expanded ones are 34.8/33.1. as they have slightly different uses, ie core are only useful for finding sites and have very low fitting costs, where the expanded ones can be used to probe out ships or sites but has very high cpu fitting cost.



Yeah I know that. He claims to have sold Sisters Core Probe Launchers for over 36mil this weekend when the highest recorded sale price in Jita this weekend was 35,009,017

So my point, and the point of others still stand. Mission income is dependent on a market value which fluctuates and has recently been trending downwards. It is also not unlimited and if everyone was doing what is being proposed, the value of our efforts would be hardly worth it.

I guess it is best said that the numbers being presented are more of a potential than a hard rate. It is entirely possible that the ratios could go way up one day too, and all that LP some of us have stored in now worthless corps will be worth something too. But that has more to do with Market-Fu than missions.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2015-10-26 03:38:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
I do not think anyone is claiming one off prices are sustainable,

You can however do far better than average by watching the market.

Mission alt trading this morning.


However time spent finding best deals can often be better spent running more missions.

EDIT: Dates and times are Aussie TZ
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#79 - 2015-10-26 06:17:50 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

So my point, and the point of others still stand. Mission income is dependent on a market value which fluctuates and has recently been trending downwards. It is also not unlimited and if everyone was doing what is being proposed, the value of our efforts would be hardly worth it.

Emphasis mine.

I figured as much. The reason for the desperation at least now is confirmed.

Man you are going to hate what I'm putting together Pirate

Market McSelling Alt wrote:

I guess it is best said that the numbers being presented are more of a potential than a hard rate. It is entirely possible that the ratios could go way up one day too, and all that LP some of us have stored in now worthless corps will be worth something too. But that has more to do with Market-Fu than missions.

I can, and have been, dumping millions of LP at effectively over the rate that I use in my examples for almost three months now. The SOE market is far more robust than you think. Yes, it boggles the mind, but enjoy it and stop trying to spread misinformation just to keep your little isk fountain safe. It should be shared with everyone.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2015-10-26 13:32:20 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

So my point, and the point of others still stand. Mission income is dependent on a market value which fluctuates and has recently been trending downwards. It is also not unlimited and if everyone was doing what is being proposed, the value of our efforts would be hardly worth it.

Emphasis mine.

I figured as much. The reason for the desperation at least now is confirmed.

Man you are going to hate what I'm putting together Pirate

Market McSelling Alt wrote:

I guess it is best said that the numbers being presented are more of a potential than a hard rate. It is entirely possible that the ratios could go way up one day too, and all that LP some of us have stored in now worthless corps will be worth something too. But that has more to do with Market-Fu than missions.

I can, and have been, dumping millions of LP at effectively over the rate that I use in my examples for almost three months now. The SOE market is far more robust than you think. Yes, it boggles the mind, but enjoy it and stop trying to spread misinformation just to keep your little isk fountain safe. It should be shared with everyone.


I have not seen 36M buy orders in ages for launchers and never seen Stratios buys for above 280. The numbers you are throwing out are unrealistic unless one is playing serious market games with dedicated trade alts in multiple hubs, and doing things like sitting on the LP for long periods of time until an exploitable market fluctuation comes along. So yes you can get 2k ISK/LP but it requires a good deal of luck and patience, trade alts in all the major hubs and the ability to quickly move stock between them. I'm sure there are opportunities for even greater ROI moving stock to lowsec and nullsec markets but Johnny mission runner isn't getting 2k selling to buy orders on a daily basis. I sold a stack of launchers in Dodixie few weeks back for 31M apiece after fees and taxes.