These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Replace learning implants with the new Blood Raider sites

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#41 - 2015-10-24 01:14:28 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Except it's not the 'base rate'.
Right now the base rate is with a booster. Because the sites are common.

But this is not true. Base rate is unmodified training rate. If you choose to accelerate it, whether this be with easy sites or expensive purchases, this is no longer base rate. I see no problem with having sites which are easy to run. Better that noobs can access without paying vets I think.


I agree that during the promotion the event should be open to as many people as possible. CCP did a pretty decent job with this - the only thing they should have done differently is have the BC spawn in the final cruiser wave, not the first one. Having people spend those extra few minutes in the celestial beacon opens them up to more interaction with other players.

Some people with lots of time on their hands will make a lot of ISK off this promotion. Others will gain some extra SP. I don't really worry about what other people can do in Eve, so long as it's all theoretically available to everyone else.

As long as whatever CCP implements is equally available to all players, I don't really care what they do with the character bazaar, selling SP, purchasing SP, etc. I would simply like to see attribute implants gone, because I want to see them replaced with more implants that benefit the player in space, right now. Not with, "sit in your +5's in safe station/space and avoid risk."

I made a choice long ago that I was not ever going to purchase another character - I would make all my own. I do not care if others want to spend a few hundred dollars catching up with me by purchasing another 2007 character. I do not care if someone else grinds Incursions for 16 hours a day and then buys a new character with his hard earned ISK. By the same token, I do not care if someone sells all those "extra" SP they never use any more. It makes no difference to FT Diomedes. He is who he is.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Lodestone Toyee
Foxholers
Outfoxed
#42 - 2015-10-24 04:41:03 UTC
They just need to nerf offgrid skill training boosts, and the problem is solved.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2015-10-24 05:55:39 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Except it's not the 'base rate'.
Right now the base rate is with a booster. Because the sites are common.

But this is not true. Base rate is unmodified training rate. If you choose to accelerate it, whether this be with easy sites or expensive purchases, this is no longer base rate. I see no problem with having sites which are easy to run. Better that noobs can access without paying vets I think.


I agree that during the promotion the event should be open to as many people as possible. CCP did a pretty decent job with this - the only thing they should have done differently is have the BC spawn in the final cruiser wave, not the first one. Having people spend those extra few minutes in the celestial beacon opens them up to more interaction with other players.

Some people with lots of time on their hands will make a lot of ISK off this promotion. Others will gain some extra SP. I don't really worry about what other people can do in Eve, so long as it's all theoretically available to everyone else.

As long as whatever CCP implements is equally available to all players, I don't really care what they do with the character bazaar, selling SP, purchasing SP, etc. I would simply like to see attribute implants gone, because I want to see them replaced with more implants that benefit the player in space, right now. Not with, "sit in your +5's in safe station/space and avoid risk."

I made a choice long ago that I was not ever going to purchase another character - I would make all my own. I do not care if others want to spend a few hundred dollars catching up with me by purchasing another 2007 character. I do not care if someone else grinds Incursions for 16 hours a day and then buys a new character with his hard earned ISK. By the same token, I do not care if someone sells all those "extra" SP they never use any more. It makes no difference to FT Diomedes. He is who he is.



where are these sites anyway?
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#44 - 2015-10-24 09:14:33 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Whether you work that out a bit to being about "grinding" or "risk aversion" the fundamental issue always boils down to their ability to be lost and having an associated cost for replacement.

So using your logic once we buy a ship (let us say a thorax) then when you lose that thorax you should respawn back in your station with a new thorax..

The concept of eve has always been about everything being destructible (unless it involves micro-transaction more recently). So I don't need to take anything up with CCP as that is their clear position since day one. So I have no idea where you got it into your head that CCP doesn't want implants or anything else to be destructible (care to link source?), and where you feel entitled to respawn back in your base without losing anything.

So hence when I said are you sure you are playing the right game it was incredibly apt.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2015-10-24 10:19:03 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Zappity wrote:
This builds upon the assumption that learning implants will be removed as per CCP Rise’s post (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5859807#post5859807). I would like the current Blood Raider sites to be left in place, perhaps slightly modified. I love them.

There was a surprising amount of satisfaction in consuming a booster than I had just looted from a wreck and seeing the booster timer flash up on the screen. My reward! The little lightning icon in the skill queue is great, too.

Importantly, the site can be run in PvP ships. They are therefore very tempting when you are roaming around looking for a fight. They are generating LOTS of content.

I would suggest a couple of tweaks, namely more variants with longer training times and strengths. Also, please make them available on the market rather than contract only.

I don’t know what to do with learning implants. But I do know that this is just better. This is hopefully a redundant post owing to CCP already have decided that this is the way to go.


What's wrong with an "as well as" solution rather than an "instead of"?



This - the market for these is (largely) mutually exclusive from implants.

And as discussed people on deployment etc should not lose out.

Boosters would feed the bubble space crowd, implants everywhere else.

It should come as an addition, not a replacement.

The content would still be generated, there are a LOT of people in null/WH space who would give their right arm for these boosters, but will never buy implants. The two markets can cheerfully coexist, imo.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#46 - 2015-10-24 10:29:41 UTC
The two could still exist, so long as the boosters and implants provide the same training time boost, and cannot be used together. So, if the best booster was a +5 that lasted a week and cost 50m, that would be very attractive to players who die a lot.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#47 - 2015-10-24 10:52:53 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
where are these sites anyway?

Everywhere. There is a lot of competition for them in heavily populated space, though.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#48 - 2015-10-24 11:16:53 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
where are these sites anyway?

Everywhere. There is a lot of competition for them in heavily populated space, though.


Sad note to self: don't run the sites without a point.. Had some noob steal my booster last night and I didn't have a point on so he warped in low structure..

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#49 - 2015-10-24 20:14:08 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:

So using your logic once we buy a ship (let us say a thorax) then when you lose that thorax you should respawn back in your station with a new thorax..

The concept of eve has always been about everything being destructible (unless it involves micro-transaction more recently). So I don't need to take anything up with CCP as that is their clear position since day one. So I have no idea where you got it into your head that CCP doesn't want implants or anything else to be destructible (care to link source?), and where you feel entitled to respawn back in your base without losing anything.

So hence when I said are you sure you are playing the right game it was incredibly apt.

Except the difference is the Thorax only benefits you while in space.
The learning Implants benefit you while you are docked.

Having to grind for things that benefit you while you are docked and offline (Corp structures such as POS's are not included in this statement for obvious reasons) is a bad thing.
Hence why learning implants should be removed, and they should not be replaced by anything.
The entire attribute system should be removed.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2015-10-24 20:42:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Moac Tor wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Whether you work that out a bit to being about "grinding" or "risk aversion" the fundamental issue always boils down to their ability to be lost and having an associated cost for replacement.

So using your logic once we buy a ship (let us say a thorax) then when you lose that thorax you should respawn back in your station with a new thorax..

The concept of eve has always been about everything being destructible (unless it involves micro-transaction more recently). So I don't need to take anything up with CCP as that is their clear position since day one. So I have no idea where you got it into your head that CCP doesn't want implants or anything else to be destructible (care to link source?), and where you feel entitled to respawn back in your base without losing anything.

So hence when I said are you sure you are playing the right game it was incredibly apt.

As stated, you have an issue with the reasoning, take it up qith ccp where it originated. Aguing with me as if it were my reasoning after i already pointed you at the source isn't too bright an argument.

Read the csm minutes btw. If you did then youd know exactly why I'm pointing this back at ccp. Their "clear position" isn't so clear for those of us that bother to stay informed.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#51 - 2015-10-25 00:19:46 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Whether you work that out a bit to being about "grinding" or "risk aversion" the fundamental issue always boils down to their ability to be lost and having an associated cost for replacement.

So using your logic once we buy a ship (let us say a thorax) then when you lose that thorax you should respawn back in your station with a new thorax..

The concept of eve has always been about everything being destructible (unless it involves micro-transaction more recently). So I don't need to take anything up with CCP as that is their clear position since day one. So I have no idea where you got it into your head that CCP doesn't want implants or anything else to be destructible (care to link source?), and where you feel entitled to respawn back in your base without losing anything.

So hence when I said are you sure you are playing the right game it was incredibly apt.

As stated, you have an issue with the reasoning, take it up qith ccp where it originated. Aguing with me as if it were my reasoning after i already pointed you at the source isn't too bright an argument.

Read the csm minutes btw. If you did then youd know exactly why I'm pointing this back at ccp. Their "clear position" isn't so clear for those of us that bother to stay informed.

CSM minutes are in no way a good indication of CCPs official position, it is simply a place where ideas are thrown around and much of it doesn't stick. And even then I still see no source to your wild claim that CCP don't like that implants are destructible.

So again, please link your source (I doubt that you can because what you wrote is not CCPs official or unofficial position and is basically nonsense to try and backup your own argument / desire).
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Stay Feral
#52 - 2015-10-25 01:08:33 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Zappity wrote:

Why? These sites are focus points for conflict and provide rewards for people willing to get out in space. I don't understand why training boosts are a bad thing.

Because it becomes grind for your Xp.
It's just a sneaky way to bring levels into EVE. Since if people have to grind for skills, then they are in space where you can shoot them, so xp grinding and levels should be introduced to EVE and the passive skill queue should be removed right?

One of the big unique draws of EVE is the passive SP gain, and the fact that everyone gains at (roughly) the same pace. Your progress is dictated by where you want to put that Sp.

If these Boosters become regular, then it becomes a grinding game instead.


Currently you have to grind for the SP implants. Or you can buy them and sit in station and still benefit
With the SP boosters you can grind for them, or buy them and sit in station and still benefit.

No difference.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Stay Feral
#53 - 2015-10-25 01:13:04 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
they got rid of clone cost. Just use whatever + stat implant you can afford without going over what a new clone would cost you.

It had nothing to do with cost.


It does for me, I live in nullsec. I'd have to be either idiotic or 2008 Tech Moon Rich™ to use +5 implants. Thus I use +4s and fall behind.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2015-10-25 01:50:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Moac Tor wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Whether you work that out a bit to being about "grinding" or "risk aversion" the fundamental issue always boils down to their ability to be lost and having an associated cost for replacement.

So using your logic once we buy a ship (let us say a thorax) then when you lose that thorax you should respawn back in your station with a new thorax..

The concept of eve has always been about everything being destructible (unless it involves micro-transaction more recently). So I don't need to take anything up with CCP as that is their clear position since day one. So I have no idea where you got it into your head that CCP doesn't want implants or anything else to be destructible (care to link source?), and where you feel entitled to respawn back in your base without losing anything.

So hence when I said are you sure you are playing the right game it was incredibly apt.

As stated, you have an issue with the reasoning, take it up qith ccp where it originated. Aguing with me as if it were my reasoning after i already pointed you at the source isn't too bright an argument.

Read the csm minutes btw. If you did then youd know exactly why I'm pointing this back at ccp. Their "clear position" isn't so clear for those of us that bother to stay informed.

CSM minutes are in no way a good indication of CCPs official position, it is simply a place where ideas are thrown around and much of it doesn't stick. And even then I still see no source to your wild claim that CCP don't like that implants are destructible.

So again, please link your source (I doubt that you can because what you wrote is not CCPs official or unofficial position and is basically nonsense to try and backup your own argument / desire).

My desire is that implants and attributes stay intact. Not sure what you're implying i need to justify. But I also know CCP proposed the removal of attributes and stated the major barrier was the learning implants and needing to replace them in some form.

Like i said, the reasoning isn'tmine and the conclusion isn't one i endorse, but I also know what's been written. I'm just not in denial about what the devs say is all.

Also: CSM 9 winter meeting minutes and thread stating the attribute were looking at being removed with learning implants as the major barrier.
Lara Sunji
Doomheim
#55 - 2015-10-25 10:01:59 UTC
lol as I suspected - Using a booster on a skill that takes 4 days will cut it down to 2 days while the booster is active. Once it's effect is gone, the training time returns to 3 days - So in effect, completely useless on anything that takes longer than 24 hours to train.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#56 - 2015-10-25 10:59:37 UTC
Lara Sunji wrote:
lol as I suspected - Using a booster on a skill that takes 4 days will cut it down to 2 days while the booster is active. Once it's effect is gone, the training time returns to 3 days - So in effect, completely useless on anything that takes longer than 24 hours to train.

You get an extra ~20 k sp per day of booster.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#57 - 2015-10-25 12:28:18 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Lara Sunji wrote:
lol as I suspected - Using a booster on a skill that takes 4 days will cut it down to 2 days while the booster is active. Once it's effect is gone, the training time returns to 3 days - So in effect, completely useless on anything that takes longer than 24 hours to train.

You get an extra ~20 k sp per day of booster.


Zappity, you are far more patient than I am. Additionally, if you trained Biology 5, the booster works for 48 hours. So, each time you inject one you are essentially getting 40k SP applied to whatever skill you are currently training.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#58 - 2015-10-25 16:41:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Whether you work that out a bit to being about "grinding" or "risk aversion" the fundamental issue always boils down to their ability to be lost and having an associated cost for replacement.

So using your logic once we buy a ship (let us say a thorax) then when you lose that thorax you should respawn back in your station with a new thorax..

The concept of eve has always been about everything being destructible (unless it involves micro-transaction more recently). So I don't need to take anything up with CCP as that is their clear position since day one. So I have no idea where you got it into your head that CCP doesn't want implants or anything else to be destructible (care to link source?), and where you feel entitled to respawn back in your base without losing anything.

So hence when I said are you sure you are playing the right game it was incredibly apt.

As stated, you have an issue with the reasoning, take it up qith ccp where it originated. Aguing with me as if it were my reasoning after i already pointed you at the source isn't too bright an argument.

Read the csm minutes btw. If you did then youd know exactly why I'm pointing this back at ccp. Their "clear position" isn't so clear for those of us that bother to stay informed.

CSM minutes are in no way a good indication of CCPs official position, it is simply a place where ideas are thrown around and much of it doesn't stick. And even then I still see no source to your wild claim that CCP don't like that implants are destructible.

So again, please link your source (I doubt that you can because what you wrote is not CCPs official or unofficial position and is basically nonsense to try and backup your own argument / desire).

My desire is that implants and attributes stay intact. Not sure what you're implying i need to justify. But I also know CCP proposed the removal of attributes and stated the major barrier was the learning implants and needing to replace them in some form.

Like i said, the reasoning isn'tmine and the conclusion isn't one i endorse, but I also know what's been written. I'm just not in denial about what the devs say is all.

Also: CSM 9 winter meeting minutes and thread stating the attribute were looking at being removed with learning implants as the major barrier.

Again there is nothing in the sources which you linked to back up your claim that CCP dislikes implants because they are destructible.

It seems you may be confusing / conflating things as you seem to agree with me that implants are a valued addition to the game. I think you have misunderstood CCPs position, CCP have never said (AFAIK) that they dislike implants because they are destructible. They have mentioned they are unhappy with attributes due to the fact they are confusing for new players, but again nothing about implants being destructible.
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#59 - 2015-10-29 16:32:56 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Importantly, the site can be run in PvP ships. They are therefore very tempting when you are roaming around looking for a fight. They are generating LOTS of content.

I like this part a lot. I have one major complaint though. Those OP webs are ruining my fights. I keep getting webbed down and losing my target because he just burns out of range while I'm going 50 m/s. Bonused webs don't even fit with the lore, they really should be ranged webs. I hate when npcs interfere with a good fight.

And while we're at it, the whole npc AI could use some work. Why are they webbing me when I came to help them against their attacker? Roll That's a whole other thing though...

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#60 - 2015-10-29 19:47:44 UTC
I rarely log into the forums, but when I do, its to point out absurd poasts like this.

Not everyone wants to GRIND THEIR EYES OUT getting SP. Eve Online was originally built so you could 'get ahead' at a constant rate. It is baked into the original design document. It should never change. If you want to remove all learning implants, fine...but having to go grind blood raiders to get a boost in per hour skillpoints is about the worst thing you can do.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka