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Unbiased Criticisms for the Game
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Bobb Bobbington
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#201 - 2015-10-24 23:08:55 UTC
Dror wrote:
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
Can I just point out, again, how us simply being here refutes your point? If they're design was a bad idea there's no way they'd have made it 11 (12?) years

Yet, probably a huge percentage of the forums would criticize some design crux of WoW's popularity.. It says nothing.


Lul, so if we don't like WoW somehow that refutes my point?

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2015-10-24 23:12:07 UTC
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
Dror wrote:
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
Can I just point out, again, how us simply being here refutes your point? If they're design was a bad idea there's no way they'd have made it 11 (12?) years

Yet, probably a huge percentage of the forums would criticize some design crux of WoW's popularity.. It says nothing.


Lul, so if we don't like WoW somehow that refutes my point?

If you support SP, that somehow makes subs come? ..Gives the company enough money (TM)?

If the PCU vs. previous earnings reports are any tell, the game has probably less than 300k subs.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#203 - 2015-10-24 23:25:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Dror wrote:
... Here's a blog post about SWG's design.
That explains WoW's sub trends perfectly!
EVE is not the hero's journey. Start by looking at the correct sector of game design.


As to Waste of Web, it was the first MMO that could be played on almost any machine by any idiot.
Suddenly, half the people excluded by their failures had a place to build their black hole of a community.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#204 - 2015-10-24 23:27:52 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dror wrote:
... Here's a blog post about SWG's design.
That explains WoW's sub trends perfectly!
EVE is not the hero's journey. Start by looking at the correct sector of game design.

How about suggesting an alternative to "lack of content" for the genre's sub issues?

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#205 - 2015-10-24 23:29:41 UTC
Dror wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dror wrote:
... Here's a blog post about SWG's design.
That explains WoW's sub trends perfectly!
EVE is not the hero's journey. Start by looking at the correct sector of game design.

How about suggesting an alternative to "lack of content" for the genre's sub issues?

My post history is only a few clicks away. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#206 - 2015-10-24 23:32:24 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dror wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dror wrote:
... Here's a blog post about SWG's design.
That explains WoW's sub trends perfectly!
EVE is not the hero's journey. Start by looking at the correct sector of game design.

How about suggesting an alternative to "lack of content" for the genre's sub issues?

My post history is only a few clicks away. Blink

That's still putting character progression, character ownership, and social identity on SP.. Have you read about that?

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#207 - 2015-10-24 23:34:12 UTC
Dror wrote:
.... SP.. Have you read about that?
I like SP, it works as a filter to help remove some of the more demanding, entitled and short sighted players. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Odie McCracken
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2015-10-24 23:35:12 UTC
I get it now, this link explains the OP.

Chewbaca Defense
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#209 - 2015-10-24 23:38:24 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dror wrote:
.... SP.. Have you read about that?
I like SP, it works as a filter to help remove some of the more demanding, entitled and short sighted players. Blink


CCP doesn't do motivation anyway, it's the abusive drunk dad of video game companies. CCP have the stick ready if you slip up, and if you mess up real bad they've got a bigger stick round the corner.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#210 - 2015-10-24 23:43:19 UTC
Dror wrote:

They can't learn enough to outplay T3s in their T1s, and they can't outplay carriers or titans in their T3s.


well they can if they find the right area of space, develop tactics and diplomacy

not every game boils down to running across the table and rolling dice
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#211 - 2015-10-24 23:46:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Dror
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dror wrote:
.... SP.. Have you read about that?
I like SP, it works as a filter to help remove some of the more demanding, entitled and short sighted players. Blink


CCP doesn't do motivation anyway, it's the abusive drunk dad of video game companies. CCP have the stick ready if you slip up, and if you mess up real bad they've got a bigger stick round the corner.

https://youtu.be/sbHqFgn4SOw?t=10m43s

Paul Pohl wrote:
Dror wrote:

They can't learn enough to outplay T3s in their T1s, and they can't outplay carriers or titans in their T3s.


well they can if they find the right area of space, develop tactics and diplomacy

not every game boils down to running across the table and rolling dice

You seem to be missing the point where T1s don't outplay T3s at all.

Edit:
Jenshae Chiroptera says:
"The biggest problem I find with EVE is that it feels quite stale to me."

Wouldn't be stale if newbies could hop in capitals.

^_^

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#212 - 2015-10-24 23:50:39 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dror wrote:
.... SP.. Have you read about that?
I like SP, it works as a filter to help remove some of the more demanding, entitled and short sighted players. Blink
CCP doesn't do motivation anyway, it's the abusive drunk dad of video game companies. CCP have the stick ready if you slip up, and if you mess up real bad they've got a bigger stick round the corner.
I think that is fantastic.

That the game allows you to fail.
These other games, that hold your hand, lead you by the nose from quest to quest, where if you apply time and grind them out you will automatically succeed and get that artificial statisfaction of being a hero; are so very shallow.

I sincerely hope that CCP ignores the OP.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#213 - 2015-10-24 23:52:29 UTC
Dror wrote:

How is "class" more relevant than "equal opportunity to win"?


probably because in other mmo's there are 'classes' - that for whatever reason - deemed harder to play/win with

but that said - eve doesn't have classes - in the sense that the article you quote refers to
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#214 - 2015-10-24 23:52:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Dror
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dror wrote:
.... SP.. Have you read about that?
I like SP, it works as a filter to help remove some of the more demanding, entitled and short sighted players. Blink
CCP doesn't do motivation anyway, it's the abusive drunk dad of video game companies. CCP have the stick ready if you slip up, and if you mess up real bad they've got a bigger stick round the corner.
I think that is fantastic.

That the game allows you to fail.
These other games, that hold your hand, lead you by the nose from quest to quest, where if you apply time and grind them out you will automatically succeed and get that artificial statisfaction of being a hero; are so very shallow.

I sincerely hope that CCP ignores the OP.


Dror wrote:
I find it odd, the idea to come up that no-SP "dumbs down the game"; yet, SP actively preventing learning, play, and depth.


Edit:
@Paul Pohl
You seem to completely overlook the whole point of that study and the quotes from it.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#215 - 2015-10-24 23:56:12 UTC
Dror wrote:
Edit:
Jenshae Chiroptera says:
"The biggest problem I find with EVE is that it feels quite stale to me."

Wouldn't be stale if newbies could hop in capitals.

^_^
Go play on the test server and get back to me on that one. Roll
That you even leap to capitals like that tells me you are probably a new player, who is trying to push forward changes fundimental to the foundations of this game, because you are suffering from some dilusions about what the game would be like if you could just jump into a capital at a moment's notice.

N00b in a capital is 10x as silly as n00b in a battleship with T1 mods and no idea how to fly it.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#216 - 2015-10-25 00:01:32 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dror wrote:
Edit:
Jenshae Chiroptera says:
"The biggest problem I find with EVE is that it feels quite stale to me."

Wouldn't be stale if newbies could hop in capitals.

^_^
Go play on the test server and get back to me on that one. Roll
That you even leap to capitals like that tells me you are probably a new player, who is trying to push forward changes fundimental to the foundations of this game, because you are suffering from some dilusions about what the game would be like if you could just jump into a capital at a moment's notice.

N00b in a capital is 10x as silly as n00b in a battleship with T1 mods and no idea how to fly it.

Why?

How about zooming out from the sentence that's supposed to explain innovation and content trends with a single statement? Why is a character playing what and how he likes silly? This is where that whole question about reading social identity theory and character ownership theory is relevant.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#217 - 2015-10-25 00:03:59 UTC
Dror wrote:


Paul Pohl wrote:
Dror wrote:

They can't learn enough to outplay T3s in their T1s, and they can't outplay carriers or titans in their T3s.


well they can if they find the right area of space, develop tactics and diplomacy

not every game boils down to running across the table and rolling dice

You seem to be missing the point where T1s don't outplay T3s at all.


and you seem to have missed the point that not every game boils down to running across the table

perhaps you should consider that a game of strategy and tactics - might actually require strategy and tactics
Leeluvv
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#218 - 2015-10-25 00:04:18 UTC
You seem to use too many words to put across your point and invent false arguments to justify your opinion. Let me use one of your comments to demonstrate:

Dror wrote:

If you would say removing SP is stupid, then you would say the game with SP is stupid.


Let's take your bizarre assumption and replace SP with 'your genitals', as it is a noun so the context of the statement has not been changed.

Dror wrote:

If you would say removing your genitals is stupid, then you would say the game with your genitals is stupid.


tl/dr Idiot.
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#219 - 2015-10-25 00:05:37 UTC
Dror wrote:

Edit:
@Paul Pohl
You seem to completely overlook the whole point of that study and the quotes from it.


the mere mention of 'classes' makes it invalid in eve
Jenshae Chiroptera
#220 - 2015-10-25 00:08:06 UTC
Dror wrote:
... Why is a character playing what and how he likes silly? ....
You really do want us to do your thinking for you, don't you?
- Eggs in one basket; large loss and frequently a subsequent quitting of the game.
- The losses incurred by their alliance / friends when they do something stupid like jump a Titan into enemy space.

There are more but my bath is getting cold.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.