Intergalactic Summit

The State has just now begun to recover from Heth's disastrous rule and you're still defending him? Kim-hanni what is in your tea?

I believe you are selling short the billions of Caldari State baseliner citizens that still refuse the Gallente hegemony.

Actually, the propaganda is so effective, that millions of State citizens leave their homes and corporations behind to join the Federation in search for a better life. Oh wait, those aren't actually State citizens, rather, they are Minamatar tribals that are flocking past the Federation borders. Unfortunate creatures, trading one slaver for another, only to become low paid serfs of the Federation, with no rights of their own. How many sweatshops are hidden beneath the clean streets of the Federation, I wonder?

If you measure your social victories only by the amount of Caldari capsuleers that you "brainwash" to your side, it says much about the Federation's priorities.

Tibus Heth, in all his faults, did once fought for the common man. For the miners that slaved toxic substances to feed the roaring engines of Caldari industry. And his legacy remains, with an overall improvement of the working conditions of the members of the lower echelons of Caldari society. This is what I choose to remember of him, and in that aspect, he was a hero.

But what do I know? I'm just a sock puppet. With no personality of my own.

See all those Matari people moving to the Federation? See them looking back at the home world their own people control and they can return to at any time? Wow that reminds me, I should go visit Matar. I haven't gone in a few months. Whens the last time you set foot on Caldari Prime Ms. Ruil?

See what I highlighted there? Like most tyrannical leaders he did at one time do a lot of good. He wouldn't have remained in power without actually being seen as doing some good. If you wish to remember him for that, who could argue? If your going to ignore all his misgivings to just focus on one aspect of his reign that's where you see half of the opposition to it.

Point taken.

Do you know what's worse? It's when some of the State's most vocal warriors display themselves to be so weak of mind, that they feel the need to bleat on public forums like a child because someone said something that upset them, instead of handling it as any proper Caldari would.

Seriously, with the way you act in this forum it would be remiss to suspect that you weren't actually a Gallentean or Minmatar yourself.

Ya!

The fact that pilot Tuulinen is one of the few people not taking this bait speaks more to his character than whatever we can bring to his defense.

It's speaks volumes, really.

Up until he decided he was bigger than the CEP and the Megacorps and started doing whatever he pleased without consulting with any of them. Then he got suspicious of the Caldari organisations he was leading and started putting his Provist supporters in every level of Caldari State society, using them as some kind of secret police.

Then he embezzled Kaalakiota funds to continue what was turning into an unprofitable war and could had doomed its employees (how many of them?) to ruination.

Finally, the final nails in his coffin, he ordered the Shiigeru to commit what was essentially mass murder of civilians and possible planeticide. When Admiral Visera Yanala, the pilot of the Shiigeru, refused and opted to crash the dying Leviathan-class titan into the Kaalakiota Peaks instead, sparing the planet and the city of Arcurio from certain destruction, Tibus Heth had her executed.

Heroes are like coins. All people are. They all have two sides. One must never just look at one side and ignore the other, else we are doomed to fall from grace like our heroes.

I don't know what is worse, Tuulinen-haan. That you have been referring to Tibus Heth's threat to dismantle corporate system (which should not be actually named just dimantling, but refactoring) with making up things about his supposed "self importance", which is rather insulting to every person, if spoken in such tone. And speaking with disrespect about fallen Caldari heroes is unbecoming for Caldari.

Or that you have allowed me to insult you without challenging me. Losing your pride like that is unbecoming of Caldari too. Well, unless you believe that what I have told about you is right and you accept it as a consequence or a requital.

In either case, I am utterly disappointed and have nothing else to add.

Actually, he handled himself in a most professional and honorable manner throughout this whole fiasco. If only we all could show that kind of restraint.....

I am not a 'girl', I am soldier of the State, Protectorate officer and former marine. Neither I am complete Achuran, but I won't get into details. What confrontations hold? They actually resolve conflicts. Instead of hours and months of screaming at each other just killing each other or having satisfaction without killing can stop the problem from the escalation. And in the Empire it is even used as a legal law enforcement and form of judgement. One of best solutions, if neither of sides want to bring apology to solve the conflict without actual confrontation. (Oh, by the way, maybe you would like to bring apology to Tibus Heth?..)


I am actually agree with his position, but not because "he would get power". It doesn't matter, who will get it, if it will be merited person. The problem is in uniting the State to fight the common enemy, to stop conflict between corporations and guide them, gather the State in one huge fist to crush the ancient enemy once and forever. A new Raata Empire... And as the enemy will be destroyed, new Raata empire will meet the fate of old Raata empire, it will dissipate again into separate corporations, who will continue competing each other. I am not calling for "ten thousands years of new empire", and against "ten thousand years of strict corporate regime of warring corporations". I am against stagnation and maintaining the regime. We, Caldari, have survived, because we can adapt and evolve. Between YC and YC110 separate corporations were the best solution, so we could compete, train ourselves, become better. But now we are at war. Now we need to apply what we have constructed during these years. Now we have to stop fighting and unite ourselves. Because our survival depends on it.

It is not just a question about the power and who will hold it. It is a question about the unification, evolution and adaptation to the threat from outside. Please don't forget that we have chosen to adopt corporations as the best possible system, not as 'eternal Caldari paradigm'. And in the current situation they have stopped being the best possible system. And the Caldari State isn't simple a set of megacorporations. It is people. Our people.


I am pretty much disagreement with his actions, or more, inactions at the end of the term as well. No, of course I am not talking about that 'murder' of Adm. Yanala, which actually wasn't murder. One have to be Caldari to understand... I was extremely disappointed we didn't strike back after that Highlander. Or that he didn't stop Reppola from humiliating Caldari spirit for begging access to the planet instead of taking it with power... He hasn't done what I have expected for the Hero like him to do.

Yet, whatever my opinion was, he still remains the Hero for what he has done as a person, and the reforms that he had conducted for the State easily outweigh his failures, putting him over any other CEO I have known. Besides, once I gave a promise and my honor demands I follow it.