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[Help and Support] Ability to notify CCP in event of a RL emergency.

Author
Anise Tig'res
Doomheim
#21 - 2015-10-16 19:57:59 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
CCP cannot manage this.
It is not about 'this is not CCP job' - simply to many players, situations - and all possible help that CCP could provide ends the moment player log off.
CCP cannot pass personal information to any one, and it cannot be used in this way as depending on the country player is from , we have different law regulations.

This is not the way to manage this kind of issues!


Wrong actually, CCP has a duty of care to inform the authorities if a persons life is in danger and they're notified.
Anise Tig'res
Doomheim
#22 - 2015-10-16 20:02:49 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Johann Rascali wrote:
It's kinda entertaining to me that the argument of "the authorities won't act on such little information" can hold any water while SWAT teams bust down doors of online streamers.

How long have the police been working on the case BEFORE the swat team was sent in? days? weeks? months?

Teckos Pech wrote:
Considering a SWAT team will deploy with far, far less information in the US (often with tragic consequences--i.e. killing the wrong person)...that conversation probably wont go like that.

Ever been a 911 operator, or an emergency services dispatcher? because the types of questions I posted are asked frequently at least by the 911 operators I know especially if the calls are coming from or they suspect the calls are coming from a cell phone.

Do you really think that the police / fire / ambulance here in the US are going to dispatch units based on a phone call they receive from a game company in Iceland without asking a few questions first?

This whole idea is filed with so many potential problem areas that it is really not feasible, I mean really what could possibly go wrong.

You have untrained people that are doing the initial evaluation of the situation often based on nothing more than a comment made in a chat channel somewhere on the internet.

Other than your shared gaming experiences do you know anything about the person who you are concerned about, what do you know about their life as a whole.

Do you fully understand the local customs, language and dialect they are speaking, this is compounded when you consider that there is likely a large percentage of the players that are not native English speakers. And while we are on the topic of languages which language does CCP use for this system, or would they need to keep people on staff 24 / 365 that speak all languages possible based on their subscribers.

Given that words often have opposite meanings are you really hearing what you think you are, or just a local slang variant definition. As an example we went through that whole phase some time back were "bad" did not always mean bad, sometimes it meant really good

So a player in US pushes the panic button and reports a corp member that lives in Australia to a game company in Iceland.
The game company looks up information on the players address which takes a few seconds but then what do they do? How do they know the proper emergency contact phone number to call, do they have it on file with the account info?

And yet this brings us back to perhaps one of the biggest problems, does the player still live at that address, or did they move and forgot to update CCP with their new address? What happens if the player you are reporting is on a trip out of their home country using a laptop to log in how can CCP know this information, do you even know they are away from their home address?

While this idea seems good at the basic level when it comes down to working around the potential problems associated with it there is just no practical way to make it work. We as players getting to know each other, where we live, what we do for a job is the ultimate answer to this situation


Whatever they do, they've managed to stop 2 Australians I've informed CCP about, which resulted in them getting the help they needed to deal with their issues. CCP are already doing this, CCP have already done all this ****.

Let them make it simpler.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2015-10-16 23:15:27 UTC
I can appreciate the work these people do in the channel. Really, I do. I've considered poking my head in there and asking for a chat myself on occasion. But to put it very bluntly, this is not CCP's job. They can not be expected to act as some sort of suicide hotline and give out addresses and names and call local police departments every time someone says they're going to kill themselves.

Please keep in mind that the Broadcast4Reps channel is only a voluntary measure. There may be professionals in there but it is not a professional institution, nor should it act as one. Suicidal individuals need real specialized help.

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Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#24 - 2015-10-17 09:05:52 UTC
I would take this farther - CCP could spear head a join project of game companies and countries to create a system that allows for better reporting (finding a point were it can be reported to local groups)

Speaking on condition of the topic with my boss / in the USA, we have the privacy laws that would interfere, unless CCP and other companies made it so they could provide our personal information to the local agencies.

Though there would be a lot of work needed to set something like this up - even if all it saved was one person in every 5 or 10, it would be worth it. A human life is priceless!!!!

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

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Lucy Alfrir
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#25 - 2015-10-17 10:51:34 UTC
I'm really glad that the location infos CCP have on me is hopelessly out of date.

Everyone seems to be thinking making it red and promising "serious consequences" will mean that no-one will prank with this.

Do me a lemonI The lulz!!! I'm already considering building a chain of fake email addressen to register the character with whom I'll SWAT all me "mates".
Coffee Rocks
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2015-10-20 03:06:05 UTC
Lucy Alfrir wrote:
I'm really glad that the location infos CCP have on me is hopelessly out of date.

Everyone seems to be thinking making it red and promising "serious consequences" will mean that no-one will prank with this.


Of course that's always a possibility, and I don't think anyone that is discussing this hasn't thought of that. It's part of why I brought up to be discussed.

We all know security is an illusion - if someone truly and determinedly wants to be a bastard for bastard's sake by exploiting the noble intent of something and twisting it to cause harm, there is always a way around the fail-safes to do so. But if that truly was a reasonable excuse to do nothing, then life would be a remarkably darker place wouldn't it?

Quote:

Do me a lemonI The lulz!!! I'm already considering building a chain of fake email addressen to register the character with whom I'll SWAT all me "mates".


Which, of course, will be investigated to the extent of your country's laws should you do so. I assume you are being facetious, but in the case you are not, I'd seriously urge you to reach down between your legs, insert a crowbar deep, and do your very best to pry your head out of your ***. Swatting is a hot button issue right now, and a lot of laws are being reworked (or written for the first time) in quick order to enact serious measures for those that commit this malicious act.

tl;dr - I responded to a post in order to spell out things that are common sense to the rest of world. The end.
Coffee Rocks
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2015-10-20 03:19:53 UTC
Anise Tig'res wrote:


Whatever they do, they've managed to stop 2 Australians I've informed CCP about, which resulted in them getting the help they needed to deal with their issues. CCP are already doing this, CCP have already done all this ****.

Let them make it simpler.


I don't recognize your name, so I'm assuming either this was separate from the channel, or I simply haven't met you much due to TZ conflict. Either way, thank you for looking out for your fellow players and I'd love to shoot the **** with you sometime in the B4R channel. If we have (which is totally possible - I'm tired and brain is fuzzy tonight!), I apologize for not recognizing your name atm!

Yes, what some of the e-lawyers and trolls that are here fail to realize is that I didn't create this question to debate the merits of whether "people should bother themselves to notify emergency services" or not. I'll try one more time to spell it out for those of you who do not seem to understand:

1. No one runs off to CCP or emergency dispatch at the drop of a hat. Contacting emergency services is only done when a player has made it reasonably obvious self-harm is imminent. Sadly, even then it's not always fast enough and we still lose fellow capsuleers. But, we have saved a few by being proactive and attentive. Some of them are now volunteers in the channel, actually.

2. Let me be clear - CCP already does investigate and act on threats of suicide. And they are not unique - every game company I'm aware of does. I really don't understand why some of you are arguing about whether or not they should? You can stop arguing - they do.

Through discussions with folks like myself, Devs and CSM, response time is getting better and better, but what I'm attempting to toy with here is making a standard process that will work best for both CCP and players. Some of the concerns that go through my mind are reflected in some of your posts. The fact that manchildren may attempt to abuse the system "for lulz" is enough to make me feel defeated, considering how much good is done already. If you are one of those, do us a favor and focus that type of energy on something more constructive, like spamming the governments for better healthcare for veterans.
Chritons Ghost
Angels Of Mordus
#28 - 2015-10-20 16:30:55 UTC
Coffee Rocks wrote:
Anise Tig'res wrote:


Whatever they do, they've managed to stop 2 Australians I've informed CCP about, which resulted in them getting the help they needed to deal with their issues. CCP are already doing this, CCP have already done all this ****.

Let them make it simpler.


I don't recognize your name, so I'm assuming either this was separate from the channel, or I simply haven't met you much due to TZ conflict. Either way, thank you for looking out for your fellow players and I'd love to shoot the **** with you sometime in the B4R channel. If we have (which is totally possible - I'm tired and brain is fuzzy tonight!), I apologize for not recognizing your name atm!

Yes, what some of the e-lawyers and trolls that are here fail to realize is that I didn't create this question to debate the merits of whether "people should bother themselves to notify emergency services" or not. I'll try one more time to spell it out for those of you who do not seem to understand:

1. No one runs off to CCP or emergency dispatch at the drop of a hat. Contacting emergency services is only done when a player has made it reasonably obvious self-harm is imminent. Sadly, even then it's not always fast enough and we still lose fellow capsuleers. But, we have saved a few by being proactive and attentive. Some of them are now volunteers in the channel, actually.

2. Let me be clear - CCP already does investigate and act on threats of suicide. And they are not unique - every game company I'm aware of does. I really don't understand why some of you are arguing about whether or not they should? You can stop arguing - they do.

Through discussions with folks like myself, Devs and CSM, response time is getting better and better, but what I'm attempting to toy with here is making a standard process that will work best for both CCP and players. Some of the concerns that go through my mind are reflected in some of your posts. The fact that manchildren may attempt to abuse the system "for lulz" is enough to make me feel defeated, considering how much good is done already. If you are one of those, do us a favor and focus that type of energy on something more constructive, like spamming the governments for better healthcare for veterans.



Exactly this. I have worked for a gaming company, which shall remain nameless and we did, in fact, do these things. Any report of suicide or potential harm to a customer was investigated. Our ticketing system flagged any incoming tickets with keywords such as "suicide", "danger", "physical harm". "death threat(s)" etc. Support would immediately pull chat logs and contact the reporter, usually within minutes of the reported incident. If the logs and/or reporter provided sufficient evidence, support would attempt to contact the person in danger using contact information on file. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't, but they tried.
Anise Tig'res
Doomheim
#29 - 2015-10-22 15:00:13 UTC
Coffee Rocks wrote:
Anise Tig'res wrote:


Whatever they do, they've managed to stop 2 Australians I've informed CCP about, which resulted in them getting the help they needed to deal with their issues. CCP are already doing this, CCP have already done all this ****.

Let them make it simpler.


I don't recognize your name, so I'm assuming either this was separate from the channel, or I simply haven't met you much due to TZ conflict. Either way, thank you for looking out for your fellow players and I'd love to shoot the **** with you sometime in the B4R channel. If we have (which is totally possible - I'm tired and brain is fuzzy tonight!), I apologize for not recognizing your name atm!

Yes, what some of the e-lawyers and trolls that are here fail to realize is that I didn't create this question to debate the merits of whether "people should bother themselves to notify emergency services" or not. I'll try one more time to spell it out for those of you who do not seem to understand:

1. No one runs off to CCP or emergency dispatch at the drop of a hat. Contacting emergency services is only done when a player has made it reasonably obvious self-harm is imminent. Sadly, even then it's not always fast enough and we still lose fellow capsuleers. But, we have saved a few by being proactive and attentive. Some of them are now volunteers in the channel, actually.

2. Let me be clear - CCP already does investigate and act on threats of suicide. And they are not unique - every game company I'm aware of does. I really don't understand why some of you are arguing about whether or not they should? You can stop arguing - they do.

Through discussions with folks like myself, Devs and CSM, response time is getting better and better, but what I'm attempting to toy with here is making a standard process that will work best for both CCP and players. Some of the concerns that go through my mind are reflected in some of your posts. The fact that manchildren may attempt to abuse the system "for lulz" is enough to make me feel defeated, considering how much good is done already. If you are one of those, do us a favor and focus that type of energy on something more constructive, like spamming the governments for better healthcare for veterans.



Outside of the Broadcast for Reps channel. I've known about B4R for a while and tried to push people your direction, not sure if they ever looked you guys up though.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#30 - 2015-10-22 22:31:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
I'm not sure its a good idea to get ccp in the middle of this. They are not an international crisis hotline anymore than the players are. They should not make people think they are.

If there is a need for something like this it would be better if different online gaming companies contributed to some third party corporation that might do something like this. Then they could have a real system where the information would go to that third party. CCP could even put in the eula that they would send their contact information to this entity if in CCP's sole discretion they thought it was warranted.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2015-10-22 23:14:48 UTC
You might get more pull on reddit/slack with this idea.

And less trolls.
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