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Ideas to balance carebears and non-combat ships.
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Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-01-05 18:11:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington
Quote:
Face it, it will make your ganking harder,

Ganking is only as easy as the one flying the industrial makes it. The tools to prevent or mitigate losses already exist, and don't need buffing - especially not to the utterly ludicrous levels proposed in the OP.

Inb4 "OMGZZZZ YOU DISAGREE SO YOU MUST BE A PIRATE TEARS LOLOL"

But hey, I can make groundless inferences instead of legitimate points as well, so I'm gonna say that you're likely a carebear who got repeatedly ganked due to not having a clue about this game.
Viceran Phaedra
Instar Heavy Industries
#22 - 2012-01-05 18:22:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Viceran Phaedra
In defence of decent PvE pilots everywhere, Atticus, your contribution to this thread is no longer constructive. Your suggestions would destroy the current balance. Learn to fly smarter, and you will lose fewer assets.

You are encouraging PvP pilots to tar us all with your brush.

Be quiet.

Chief Executive Officer

Instar Heavy Industries
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#23 - 2012-01-05 19:28:08 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
1. Micro warp jump: an emergency feature that will "micro-jump" you 100m in some random direction. It will allow you to disappear and reappear buying you some time to get away from a gang The risk is that it may jump you closer to them since it's random. Comes with a 30 sec cooldown before it can be used again.

2. Pre-jump gate scanner: a glimpse at what waits for you on the other side of a gate. It would be an anti-gate camp feature. Licensed for use only in low/null sec. Inoperable in hi-sec.

3. Auto warp-to-gate compressor mod: something like auto-WTZ but not quite. Available only to freighters and non-cloak enabled transports and exhumers. Different Tech level mods that allow for a closer jump to a gate without coming to full WTZ ability.

4. Anti-cargo scan mod: Remove the temptation by blinding them to your cargo.

5. Doomsday self destruct: This is my favorite and it comes at a high price. It's basically a smartbomb on steroids. This mod will destroy your ship, your pod (you will be podding yourself) as well as all ships currently targeting you (without podding them) within a 100m range. It would only affect targeting ships so it's more akin to a smart grenade. Licensed only for use in low/null sec (like bubbles). Inoperable in high-sec. The self-podding price will hopefully prevent abuse of this mod but if you are in defenseless freighter and you are going to go down, may as well take the attackers with you.

Note: I am a carebear (well, HS dweller who runs missions... some call that a carebear).

1) To make this not overpowered, it should only work if you are not scrammed. Perhaps make it require only 25% speed, so it is useful, but not broken. Means you can still be attacked, and if you get scrammed your SOL (unless fit right), but a smart enough player should be fine unless faced with insane odds.
However, I could live without it.

2) Bad idea simply for the server calls needed. Also either has no effect as people sit outside of intel range or eliminates one of the most fun low sec activity (breaking gate camps and listening to their whines).

3) Freighters can't fit mods. Also I am against autopilot personally (and afk mining) because I feel that people should actually play the game. But I don't try to force my personal play choices on others... usually. Also, this won't help, as they will either still kill you or still leave you alone.

4) I would love a smuggling cargo hold (as described by someone early in the thread). Pretty much, smaller than the main hold, and its contents cannot be scanned. However its existence could be. Would be fun having people gank me only to find I was empty with no mods other than that one. However, I am against a simple anticargo scan device. Just jump through the gate and don't autopilot.

5) NO! This is a broken idea. How the Hell does it only effect those that targetted the ship? Also AOE is notorious for server problems. This would be used to ridiculous effects in null and low whenever anyone is dying.


In short, I am against all of your ideas as written as they do not bring balance, but create imbalance (or are cruel to the hamsters).

A lot of these "piwates" are not pirates, griefers or whatever you want to call them. Just players who don't want the game broken.

Also ganking is only easy when the ganked one makes it so. Fly smarter (and not afk) and 90% of ganks would fail... until gankers started using the expensive stuff.
If you want to know these methods, EVE mail me and I would be glad to lay them out for you.



And I would quit if this was implemented, because overall it would make it safe to "play" afk and/or stupidly.
Bischopt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-01-05 20:26:22 UTC
Either the OP is trolling or just doesnt realize how ridiculous this all is.

1) 100m or 100 000m, either way it wont save you if you're in a freighter. 30 sec cooldown is way too little.

2) Every single person running a gate camp would have one of these with them and they would know when you're there ready to jump and they would come to you and kill you instead of waiting for you to come to them.

3) what is this i dont even...

4) creating a mod to make an existing mod useless.

5) This would absolutely 100% surely be abused and is insanely overpowerd anyway. It's practically an I-win-button.

I know you're complaining about these ship types being powerless and weak but that's the way they're supposed to be. They have their place. They're vulnerable but they can also do things no other class can do.

They're not broken, you are.
Atticus Fynch
#25 - 2012-01-05 23:23:42 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:

But hey, I can make groundless inferences instead of legitimate points as well, so I'm gonna say that you're likely a carebear who got repeatedly ganked due to not having a clue about this game.


Viceran Phaedra wrote:

You are encouraging PvP pilots to tar us all with your brush.

Be quiet.


Corina Jarr wrote:

And I would quit if this was implemented, because overall it would make it safe to "play" afk and/or stupidly.


Bischopt wrote:

They're not broken, you are.


When you get down to it, EVE is fundamentally a Predator vs Prey game. Looks like the Predators will be upset if the Prey got even footing.

Unless there is proper balance, carbearing in EVE will remain a losing game. These comments show that Predators are afraid of having to put up a fight for change instead of beating up the defenseless toon for his lunch money.

[b]★★★Cargo Pilots Unite!!!★★★ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132[/b]
Test Character PleaseIgnore
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-01-05 23:34:26 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:


When you get down to it, EVE is fundamentally a Predator vs Prey game. Looks like the Predators will be upset if the Prey got even footing.

Unless there is proper balance, carbearing in EVE will remain a losing game. These comments show that Predators are afraid of having to put up a fight for change instead of beating up the defenseless toon for his lunch money.



Your main problem here is that you have this conception that industrial ships are defenseless. You, and publords like you, need to understand that there are game mechanics (instant-undocks, tacticals, safes, d-scans, probes, intel channels) that contribute significantly to ANY ship's survival. Additionally, please try to understand that the price of combat inability is not paid for nothing. Industrials gain things like bonuses to warp core stability, the ability to fit cloaks, massive cargoholds, the ability to use gates and cynos.

It's pubbies like you why risk/reward is all ******.
Kotorii
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-01-05 23:38:35 UTC
Why don't you just round off all your wants to a module that makes you unkillable in hisec!
Fras Siabi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-01-06 00:48:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Fras Siabi
Atticus Fynch wrote:


When you get down to it, EVE is fundamentally a Predator vs Prey game. Looks like the Predators will be upset if the Prey got even footing.

Unless there is proper balance, carbearing in EVE will remain a losing game. These comments show that Predators are afraid of having to put up a fight for change instead of beating up the defenseless toon for his lunch money.



I agree that fundamentally, Eve is a Predator vs Prey style of game at times. Its also a risk vs. reward game. If you want to go out and mine or haul things through space, you are taking a great risk, which is being ganked. Of course, you can make a large amount of profit doing so. Alternatively, you can haul things in a blockade runner which is almost impossible to catch unless you don't know what you're doing, but you can't haul as much, so as you've lowered the risk, you've lowered the reward. If you want to get an even footing, try to make friends who will protect you, join a corp to help you move things, or simply don't move large amounts of junk at a time.

Carebearing in Eve will never be "balanced" because there is nothing to balance. You aren't safe anywhere in New Eden regardless of what you are doing. You can always be wardec'ed, unless you're in an NPC corp.

It is not CCP who needs to be adapting the game to you and making it easier for you to not ever have to worry about being ganked, but you who needs to be adapting to the way that people play the game, and realizing that Eve is a sandbox where you are never safe and that's what makes it great.


Atticus Fynch wrote:

So I present these ideas and features for CCP, and for all the griefers that feel this would change the game too much against them, let me just say....HTFU!!!Twisted


I think it is you, sir, that needs to HTFU!!! and stop thinking that you should have a super easy time playing this game.

Not all who wander are lost, but most of them are complete idiots.
HONSOU FERRIX
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-01-06 01:07:52 UTC  |  Edited by: HONSOU FERRIX
is this a joke?
you want to make it so you cant get tackled at all?, and so that when using autopilot you go straight to gate? AND just incase the worst happens some device to kill yourself and everyone targeting you!? WTF!
youre playin the wrong game


antiwarpdisruption would be warp core stabs
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#30 - 2012-01-06 01:43:47 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:

But hey, I can make groundless inferences instead of legitimate points as well, so I'm gonna say that you're likely a carebear who got repeatedly ganked due to not having a clue about this game.


Viceran Phaedra wrote:

You are encouraging PvP pilots to tar us all with your brush.

Be quiet.


Corina Jarr wrote:

And I would quit if this was implemented, because overall it would make it safe to "play" afk and/or stupidly.


Bischopt wrote:

They're not broken, you are.


When you get down to it, EVE is fundamentally a Predator vs Prey game. Looks like the Predators will be upset if the Prey got even footing.

Unless there is proper balance, carbearing in EVE will remain a losing game. These comments show that Predators are afraid of having to put up a fight for change instead of beating up the defenseless toon for his lunch money.


LolLolLolLolLolLolLol
I'm certainly not a predator. You want my API so you can see my 26 losses and 0 kills?

I'm just reasonable, and your suggestions are not.

Now I would never argue that mining ships and industrials are fine. They could certainly use some tweeking (especially the Amarr ones, lowest hauling capacity and lowest tankability). But I have yet to lose a non combat vessel (I spend a good portion of my life hauling PI goods from WHs) and have lost plenty of combat ones.


And while things may be inbalanced, changes like the ones you suggested do nothing to help bring things closer to center and instead push the balance out the window.
Embrace My Hate
Bitmap Brothers
#31 - 2012-01-06 03:59:50 UTC
10/10 op look at everybody that bit on this one.
Zenk Faswell
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-01-06 07:23:32 UTC
I support OP for his fantastic ideas and well-reasoned arguments.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-01-06 14:24:26 UTC
Quote:
When you get down to it, EVE is fundamentally a Predator vs Prey game. Looks like the Predators will be upset if the Prey got even footing.


The prey have an even footing. Just because you're too brainless to work around a problem doesn't mean everyone else is.
Atticus Fynch
#34 - 2012-01-06 17:25:13 UTC
Scenarios:

Battleship vs Battleship --->who wins? The better pilot.

Battleship vs Freighter ---> who wins? The battleship, because of the nature of the ships. Pilot skill does not come into play and if "running away" is a skill, the perhaps we should have a skillbook for it.

Battleship vs Exhumer ---> who wins? The battleship, because of the nature of the ships.

Battleship vs Transport ---> who wins? The battleship (if you are not fast enough with the cloak button or cant cloak due to 2000m limit like when undocking), because of the nature of the ships.


I am not asking for a free pass for non-combat ships as some of you seem to think.. I am asking for more varied and stronger defenses for them and perhaps exclusive to that class only. They would then become a challenging target instead of a pushover victory.

[b]★★★Cargo Pilots Unite!!!★★★ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132[/b]
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#35 - 2012-01-06 18:00:19 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Scenarios:

Battleship vs Battleship --->who wins? The better pilot.

Battleship vs Freighter ---> who wins? The battleship, because of the nature of the ships. Pilot skill does not come into play and if "running away" is a skill, the perhaps we should have a skillbook for it.

Battleship vs Exhumer ---> who wins? The battleship, because of the nature of the ships.

Battleship vs Transport ---> who wins? The battleship (if you are not fast enough with the cloak button or cant cloak due to 2000m limit like when undocking), because of the nature of the ships.


I am not asking for a free pass for non-combat ships as some of you seem to think.. I am asking for more varied and stronger defenses for them and perhaps exclusive to that class only. They would then become a challenging target instead of a pushover victory.


Why? They're specifically designed as non combat ships. They are working entirely as intended. If you want to be safer, fly a transport. A blockade runner can cloak and hide from the big meanie pirates, and a deep space transport can fit a reasonable tank and with it's innate two warp stabs, isn't going to be hard to make uncatchable in highsec if you're not dumb.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#36 - 2012-01-06 18:04:44 UTC
When are you going to post your loss mail?
Terik Voth
Career Service Center
#37 - 2012-01-06 18:34:58 UTC
I too wish I could fly safely without having to worry about anything blowing up my precious ship in this game. It would make it so fun. And yes definately autopilot warp to 0 would be awesome because I'm lazy as **** and can't be arsed to fly my own ship that might get blown up because I carry **** in my t1 hauler that has no business being carried in a t1 hauler.
You know what makes haulers and miners a challenging target? Not being a lazy **** and using your brain. Try it sometime instead of asking to change the game to suit your stupidity.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#38 - 2012-01-06 18:52:39 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Scenarios:

Battleship vs Battleship --->who wins? The better pilot.

Agree

Atticus Fynch wrote:

Battleship vs Freighter ---> who wins? The battleship, because of the nature of the ships. Pilot skill does not come into play and if "running away" is a skill, the perhaps we should have a skillbook for it.

The freighter, because his support fleet jumps through a second later Twisted. Oh, you were flying alone during a war, or through lowsec/nullsec? well, you really shouldn't do that.

Atticus Fynch wrote:
Battleship vs Exhumer ---> who wins? The battleship, because of the nature of the ships.

The exhumer, because it's tanked well enough to live long enough for the support fleet to show up. If we're talking about hi-sec, and a gank, then the tank lasts long enough for CONCORD to show.

Atticus Fynch wrote:
Battleship vs Transport ---> who wins? The battleship (if you are not fast enough with the cloak button or cant cloak due to 2000m limit like when undocking), because of the nature of the ships.

Seeing as the transports have an inherent +2 warp strength, the transport. If you're talking about Blockade Runners ... then the BR, because they're nimble little bastards.

Now, if you have the misfortune to get shot at regardless, the DST can still fit a mean tank ... and has a fair chance of tanking said battleship until CONCORD (or the support fleet) shows up.

Atticus Fynch wrote:
I am not asking for a free pass for non-combat ships as some of you seem to think.. I am asking for more varied and stronger defenses for them and perhaps exclusive to that class only. They would then become a challenging target instead of a pushover victory.


TBH, it sounds like a free pass to me Ugh. There are already a number of ways to get these vessels safer -- it just means hurting your ISK/hour a bit. The crux of the problem is the mechanics of hisec, and the fact that they essentially foster the (incorrect) feeling that "hisec should be safe".

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Xolani1990
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-01-06 19:05:34 UTC
You make your own safety in EVE. If you can't be bothered to protect your expensive assets by having other pilots protect them with their combat ships then you deserve to lose them to a pirate or war target, and if you transport expensive cargo in a paper thin T1 industrial while autopiloting then you deserve to get suicide ganked.

Feature working as intended.
RomeoActual
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-01-06 20:25:25 UTC
For the low low price of 1BN isk/mo I will be your constant guardian. Fending off all enemies so that you can afk this game in peace.... money up front though.
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