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PIE and the 24th Imperial Crusade Threaten The Disciples of Ston

Author
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#141 - 2012-01-05 22:57:46 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:

The capsuleers of the DoS have declared themselves a sovereign nation?! A Muck-Raker would say, "Sen-Sational!"


The Disciples operate within the Republic (at least in part), which -- if I remember my political sciences training -- is a sovereign nation. Therefore, the Empire has no jurisdiction over its affairs or its facilities within Republic space.

If PIE wishes to inspect Republic-operated facilities, they are expected to conform to the proper legal and diplomatic channels. Making demands and issuing threats is not one of those channels, and they should not be surprised when we refuse to cooperate under such conditions.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#142 - 2012-01-05 22:57:57 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Arkady Sadik wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:
The capsuleers of the DoS have declared themselves a sovereign nation?! A Muck-Raker would say, "Sen-Sational!"
Let me guess - the "help" usually takes care of reading comprehension, too?


Clarify?


I think you'll need to get the help to politely do that for you.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#143 - 2012-01-05 23:04:27 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:

The capsuleers of the DoS have declared themselves a sovereign nation?! A Muck-Raker would say, "Sen-Sational!"


The Disciples operate within the Republic (at least in part), which -- if I remember my political sciences training -- is a sovereign nation. Therefore, the Empire has no jurisdiction over its affairs or its facilities within Republic space.

If PIE wishes to inspect Republic-operated facilities, they are expected to conform to the proper legal and diplomatic channels. Making demands and issuing threats is not one of those channels, and they should not be surprised when we refuse to cooperate under such conditions.


And the Disciples also operate within Imperial borders.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#144 - 2012-01-05 23:19:11 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:

And the Disciples also operate within Imperial borders.


And I have no problem with the Empire investigating such things -- within their own borders. That would fall under the category of 'internal matters'. When you come and demand -- again, not request, but demand -- that a facility in Republic space (such as the Disciples' local facilities) submit to an inspection, you cross a very thin line.

If you want us to respect your borders and policies, we expect you to honor ours in return.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#145 - 2012-01-05 23:33:09 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Arkady Sadik wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:
The capsuleers of the DoS have declared themselves a sovereign nation?! A Muck-Raker would say, "Sen-Sational!"
Let me guess - the "help" usually takes care of reading comprehension, too?


Clarify?


I think you'll need to get the help to politely do that for you.


No, my point remains valid. Some of you are confusing the DoS with the Republic. PIE requested a tour of a private capsuleer facility, not Republic Fleet Headquarters.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#146 - 2012-01-05 23:52:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Astrid Stjerna
Silas Vitalia wrote:

No, my point remains valid. Some of you are confusing the DoS with the Republic. PIE requested a tour of a private capsuleer facility, not Republic Fleet Headquarters.


And if the Empire wants to inspect facilities inside its own borders, they have every right to do so. inspection of facilities within Republic space, even if they're operated by an independent body, requires the proper diplomatic clearance and permission from our government.

Regardless of who owns or operates the facility, you will still have to enter Republic space to conduct the inspection. I would think that the Empire wants to avoid a diplomatic incident, rather than causing one.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#147 - 2012-01-06 00:14:57 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:

No, my point remains valid. Some of you are confusing the DoS with the Republic. PIE requested a tour of a private capsuleer facility, not Republic Fleet Headquarters.


And if the Empire wants to inspect facilities inside its own borders, they have every right to do so. inspection of facilities within Republic space, even if they're operated by an independent body, requires the proper diplomatic clearance and permission from our government.

Regardless of who owns or operates the facility, you will still have to enter Republic space to conduct the inspection. I would think that the Empire wants to avoid a diplomatic incident, rather than causing one.


The Empire intended to conduct this inspection? That's odd because i hadn't heard any official announcements.



Sabik now, Sabik forever

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#148 - 2012-01-06 00:17:38 UTC
Oh and I'm aware Goldcore invoked the name of the 24th in her initial letter, but I think we can assume this was more to lend an air of authority in order to see the request honored.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#149 - 2012-01-06 00:31:52 UTC
The idea of having the groups in which I am accusing D-ston to working with accompany me with the investigations is insane. Arguments to the contrary are designed simply to be contrary, nothing more.

Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#150 - 2012-01-06 00:39:25 UTC
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
The idea of having the groups in which I am accusing D-ston to working with accompany me with the investigations is insane. Arguments to the contrary are designed simply to be contrary, nothing more.



Caellach Marellus wrote:
Note: Demands in general through negotiation aren't unreasonable by default. Don't just say "You shouldn't get to ask anything of me, this is unreasonable!"


Care to state what's so "insane" about it?

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Conventia Underking
Underking Family
Khimi Harar
#151 - 2012-01-06 00:46:11 UTC
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
The idea of having the groups in which I am accusing D-ston to working with accompany me with the investigations is insane. Arguments to the contrary are designed simply to be contrary, nothing more.


Are you suggesting that the Minmatar Militia pilot who publicly accepts Slavery as a means to bring God's Salvation to people is planning to hinder your investigation with regard to ensuring that slaves are appropriately handled? I would simply be there to ensure the safety and good behavior of all involved.

"All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all;
When thine heart shines with the Light, thou shalt know no hardship;
When thine actions are in Light's name, thou art immortal.’"
- The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:1

Your dislke of me for having left PIE would seem to be overshadowing your duty to God to bring Salvation to people. My heart shines with the Light and my actions are in Light's name, are yours, Divine Commodore?

For God; Salvation is Imperative, but not at the cost of our Humanity!

The Vitoc Problem - Conventia Underking

Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#152 - 2012-01-06 01:13:41 UTC
Underking, this matter has absolutely no baring on slaves, slave treatment, or slave's freedom. This matter is PURELY a military one. You are a hostile military agent. Your presence would contaminate all levels of the investigation and would destroy its validity. My record should show that I conduct myself with honor, You of all people understand this Underking.

God stands with the Empire. To stand against the Empire is to stand against God.

Conventia Underking
Underking Family
Khimi Harar
#153 - 2012-01-06 01:19:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Conventia Underking
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
God stands with the Empire. To stand against the Empire is to stand against God.


Perhaps if you read the first line of the scripture I quoted above, things may make more sense, Divine Commodore?

For God; Salvation is Imperative, but not at the cost of our Humanity!

The Vitoc Problem - Conventia Underking

Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#154 - 2012-01-06 01:29:26 UTC
Your scripture refers to that those who are faithful will know peace and all men have ability to know god. It does not reach to mean that those who are not faithful will know peace. Moreover the scriptures clearly state in the divinity of the Amarr empire and Emperor. God guided the Amarr people to share his light upon the universe. All who follow God, follow the Amarr people.

If your arguing that part of one line of one scripture backs up your point, ignoring the rest of the entire sentence, the passage, and the book itself. You'll find yourself with a very flimsy argument.
Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#155 - 2012-01-06 01:32:07 UTC
I don't feel compelled to take advice on scripture from someone who believes the best way to make a point they NEVER communicated before was to kill Amarrian citizens anyway.
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#156 - 2012-01-06 02:10:48 UTC
Conventia Underking wrote:
Perhaps f you read the first line of the scripture I quoted above, things may make more sense, Divine Commodore?


Don't bother, they're just looking for an easy fight and will do anything to justify it. Words are cheap.
Kazzzi
Heathen Legion
Iron Men of the Hood
#157 - 2012-01-06 03:34:05 UTC
Due to my status as an impartial observer, I can confirm that I have been tasked by each party to arbitrate this situation. In order to preserve the integrity of the procedings however, I have instructed everyone to either remain silent about my involvement, deny it completely or respond in cryptic riddles or rhetorical questions.

Once I have issued my verdict, every member of the losing faction will receive a tramp-stamp tattoo featuring the slogan "Kazzzi Waz Here"
Verone
Veto Corp
#158 - 2012-01-06 04:48:45 UTC

When are you guys gonna stop blabbering and declare war on each other so that there's some entertainment comes out of this?

Honestly, there are people who want put money on this stuff. Get over the chest beating and start killing eachother so the rest of us can watch and laugh.

Verone CEO & Executor Veto Corp WWW.VETO-CORP.COM

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#159 - 2012-01-06 12:31:02 UTC
Verone wrote:

When are you guys gonna stop blabbering and declare war on each other so that there's some entertainment comes out of this?

Honestly, there are people who want put money on this stuff. Get over the chest beating and start killing eachother so the rest of us can watch and laugh.


I'm afraid there won't be any entertainment at all. PIE is a military corporation. DoS is a semi-criminal organization that acts in shadows. I doubt there ever will be something like 'killing each other' and absolutely nothing to watch at.

Well, once we had a similar situation, but with an entity a bit stronger than DoS, I can even name it, they were alliance Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive. This alliance was pretending to fight pirates in Caldari-Gallente warzone, but in fact made blue pact with gallente militia and was declaring wars on caldari corporations. In the first battle after wardec all their alliance forces were scattered by one corporation. After that we haven't seen them much. There were a couple of skirmishes, but nothing compared to daily battles with real enemies. They didn't even come to defend their tower. This was a very dull war.

And what about DoS? In this case there won't be even a single battle. I never saw their battle formations neither in Amarr, nor in Caldari space. IF there will be war, I see only two possible incomes, first: DoS suicide their ships one by one, second: they just hide and run.

Unfortunately, CONCORD regulations won't allow us to completely get rid of organizations like I-RED or DoS and there's little we can do.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Manwe Todako
Disciples of Ston
#160 - 2012-01-06 15:02:22 UTC
A Response to the speculation.

The Disciples of Ston are dedicated pacifists.

While we have been attacked many times, podded many times, damaged many times, we have never fired back. It is not our way. Everyone can expect this: The Disciples of Ston will continue to rescue people who are in danger. We will continue to offer sanctuary to former slaves. We will continue to do our very best to maintain and operate our Matriculation Centers.

If watching a DSTON rescue vessel explode in space is entertaining to you, then I hope you will enjoy the show.

We also have a strict policy not to fleet up with anyone who will fire a weapon. Our defenses consist of shields, cloaking, and escape.

SANKOFA