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I am confused....
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Daemeon Kado
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-10-20 01:23:59 UTC
So there is a lot of grumbling about the proposed idea of selling SP packs created by other players to other players. It's being called pay to win and it seems to be thought of a a Bad Idea(TM).


I am confused though. I was told numerous times that skill points do not matter and that newer players can be just as effective as older players so do not complain about them having millions of SP more than you. But NOW if I DO get those same SP.... I'm paying to win?

Please help me figure out what fine line is being pushed here?


(Side note) I don't care either way about the skill point selling... just find the logic... odd.
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#2 - 2015-10-20 01:45:08 UTC
The idea is that new players can be just as skilled at very narrow skillsets in a relatively shore time. They can quickly be just as "skilled" because skill level tops out eventually. Lvl 5 is it.

However, they will in no way have the experience.

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
Paranoid Loyd
#3 - 2015-10-20 01:48:03 UTC
Yeah, at first I was in rage mode (well as rage mode as I get when it comes to video games), then I came to the realization, that bad players will be bad no matter how many skill points they have, so whatever.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Daemeon Kado
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2015-10-20 01:48:48 UTC
MeestaPenni wrote:
The idea is that new players can be just as skilled at very narrow skillsets in a relatively shore time. They can quickly be just as "skilled" because skill level tops out eventually. Lvl 5 is it.

However, they will in no way have the experience.


I understand that. I do.

Don't quite agree with it but understand it.

However by that logic it should not matter how much and how fast a player gets their SP as that is not what matters but the play experience. This is what I'm trying to figure out. On one hand we tell new players not to worry about SP as it "does not matter" and then on the other hand we call any acceleration of those SP as "pay to win".

It cannot be both.
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#5 - 2015-10-20 01:54:18 UTC
Pay to win . . .

I feel this has been taking away from the game. There are many of us "bitter" vets, who have been around for a long time, many much longer than I. We fought, earned and learned our way thru EVE to be in the positions we are at now.

Pay to win just didn't start recently, it started quite a while ago. A new player, lets say a rich new player, can buy all the ISK or Aurem that they want. Instead of taking the time to train a character, they can and could go out and buy one. With more money, they can buy all the shiney ships and mods.

IMHO a player who buys their way into and thru a game will not have the longevity to become a "bitter" vet. They will quickly burn out, they will be flash in the pan, a meteor in the sky, they will not last, etc. etc.

CCP wants to make money in the short term, only to lose it later.

-Kirst






Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-10-20 01:57:02 UTC
Consider how many players are in eve and what percentage will spend the high dollars to get a high level skill loadout. Very rare any will power play and not likely to approach vet levels. considering that a three month equal sp would be ten packs. How much would that be in isk or dollars? I think it will be majority of people will just to it to grab that level five when they want that upgrade.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#7 - 2015-10-20 02:51:15 UTC
Daemeon Kado wrote:
(Side note) {snip} just find the logic... odd.


Welcome to EVE!

New Eden's Logic Fairy has new credit card and has taken the Troll of Reason and the Common Sense Dragon out to lunch. They went to a Jovian restaurant and are halfway through their third bottle of Te'Quafe'ila, so it may be a while before they're back on deck.

In the meantime, some members of the player community will froth at the mouth as they vomit a myriad of curses and poorly conceived objections towards pretty much any changes CCP talks about.

I'm sure it's referred to as 'business as usual' in Reykjavik.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Memphis Baas
#8 - 2015-10-20 02:54:11 UTC
Grab it from where? There's not gonna be any for sale. Nobody's gonna take out their level 5 skills so you can have yours.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#9 - 2015-10-20 02:57:52 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Grab it from where? There's not gonna be any for sale. Nobody's gonna take out their level 5 skills so you can have yours.


Wait for off-grid links nerfs.
THEN there'll be some SP for sale!

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-10-20 03:02:06 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:

Wait for off-grid links nerfs.
THEN there'll be some SP for sale!


I absolutely cannot wait for that day. On grid boosting is the only way to be. What part of off grid is eve? Oops, off topic...

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Pryde Anneto
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-10-20 03:16:53 UTC
I played in 2003, actually have a box copy of eve, which is rare, and played for a loooooong time. Ex Votf, Ex Curse Alliance old and new. Moo was something to be feared when I played. Thought I was done with the game, and was for a period of about 7 years. Sold my character because what the hell I didn't need him anymore (sold it legally through the forums) but now I have that Eve itch again. Ok, i start a character, at 2.3 mil sp's and try to talk my new non eve friends to play. BAHAHAHAHAHA. Thats what I got, I know the depth and wonderful part of Eve that most gamers don't know, but the new kids need a boost, if it doesn't happen, Eve will keep slowly declining. Just my input. Love the game, I have a renewed want to play the game, but honestly a little boost to those new players hurts no one that has 80+ mil sp's (which i once was). o7

Pryde
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#12 - 2015-10-20 03:40:32 UTC
A lot of people complaining are not doing it because it's 'pay 2 win'.
They are complaining because of all the other abuses possible, and the instant gratification element being introduced with this.

Also, go whinge in the correct thread, you are not a special snowflake.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#13 - 2015-10-20 03:44:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
Quote:
I am confused....
Me too.

It confuses me that everyone knows there is a thread created specifically for this feature and all others are being locked, yet they keep starting them anyway.

Mr Epeen Cool
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#14 - 2015-10-20 03:54:09 UTC
MeestaPenni wrote:
The idea is that new players can be just as skilled at very narrow skillsets in a relatively shore time. They can quickly be just as "skilled" because skill level tops out eventually. Lvl 5 is it.

However, they will in no way have the experience.


Or the assets unless they purchased Plex to buy those too, when they purchased Plex to buy their SP packets.

Either way it's a pay to lose ploy, masked as pay to win, something EVE has tried in the past with limited success.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-10-20 04:22:53 UTC
Meh, some people take video games too seriously. Moment anything gets near their virtual bubble, it's hell on earth (or... space in this game).

After being around for over 10 years, i have seen it all. At the end of the day... it doesn't matter. CCP has and will do w/e the frack they want, only difference is the past few years they know what they are doing.

Been around since the beginning.
Ravaging Lust
Doomheim
#16 - 2015-10-20 04:25:15 UTC
It should be implemented. People just seem to be grumpy about it for some reason.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#17 - 2015-10-20 04:32:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Markus Reese wrote:
Mephiztopheleze wrote:

Wait for off-grid links nerfs.
THEN there'll be some SP for sale!


I absolutely cannot wait for that day. On grid boosting is the only way to be. What part of off grid is eve? Oops, off topic...

On grid won't be any better than off grid in many situations. There's a lot more creative a effective solutions than just bringing links on grid.

But as to the topic. There's no one logic in the community. There's lots of different views on things and it isn't as black and white as "player skill is more important than skills", but "selling skills is bad because it's important for character progression". Those are not necessarily mutually exclusive ideas and not necessarily shared by the same people.
Yusef Brion
Big Yellow Pidgeon Inc.
#18 - 2015-10-20 04:49:41 UTC
MeestaPenni wrote:
The idea is that new players can be just as skilled at very narrow skillsets in a relatively shore time. They can quickly be just as "skilled" because skill level tops out eventually. Lvl 5 is it.

However, they will in no way have the experience.


Yep.

The more I read the forums over the years, the more I swear. To god. That the typos are intentional mistakes. Part o f the encryption.
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-10-20 04:59:35 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Yeah, at first I was in rage mode (well as rage mode as I get when it comes to video games), then I came to the realization, that bad players will be bad no matter how many skill points they have, so whatever.

Man i wish you gave in to the RAGE more
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-10-20 05:00:37 UTC
Ioci wrote:
MeestaPenni wrote:
The idea is that new players can be just as skilled at very narrow skillsets in a relatively shore time. They can quickly be just as "skilled" because skill level tops out eventually. Lvl 5 is it.

However, they will in no way have the experience.


Or the assets unless they purchased Plex to buy those too, when they purchased Plex to buy their SP packets.

Either way it's a pay to lose ploy, masked as pay to win, something EVE has tried in the past with limited success.

Do you look like that irl?
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