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Crime & Punishment

 
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Hyperdunking nerf on sisi, to the battlements!

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Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#461 - 2015-10-19 12:30:30 UTC
Game adapts to make "criminal" actually carry more consequence. Not seeing a problem with this.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#462 - 2015-10-19 12:32:22 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
The numbers don't lie. Red Frog Freight completes 99.89% of all their contracts. How much more "balanced" do you want freighters to be? 99.99% safe? Maybe 99.9999% safe?


So Red Frog are representative of freighters in hisec, they have some interesting tricks that make them a lot safer then people can possibly imagine. Sadly Black Pedro has no idea what it is, but I do and I am not telling...


maybe educate other freighters instead of crying about balance?


Red Frog are not representative of hisec freighters, X-FEANOR is...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#463 - 2015-10-19 12:42:21 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
I talked about AI CONCORD hunter killers that are not god like and their status enabling them to be shot
We already have this, they're called the Faction Police.

Concord are godlike, period. At one time they were not and much mayhem happened. Arbitrarily changing even one Concord ship to suit your purpose of them being attackable would backfire hilariously.

Quote:
and forcing them to use bigger ships by having freighters be fitted with a target spectrum breaker forcing them away from massive numbers of catalysts.
They'll bring something else, and people still won't shoot at it.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#464 - 2015-10-19 12:43:20 UTC
well you basically just said there is ways to be safe, not gankers fault that pilots fly around in solo capital ships with out a care in the world.

You know if i ever have to safe logoff a faction battleship after a fight, my corp wont let me log on till a support fleet is available to get it home safely, i wont undock a marauder or a blops unless i have a support fleet, i decide to do pve then my scout sits on the acceleration gate watching while im dscanning for probes

If i move my capitals and my route involves an sov system, ill take an alternative route regardless of the amount of fatigue i gain, because fck jumping a capital into a system i cant dock in,. not to mention anything expensive i move has a scout with a cyno ready.

I take these precautions because i value my assets

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#465 - 2015-10-19 12:45:32 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Hi. You must be new here.

You are correct, a fleet of gankers does everything it can to tip the scales to their advantage. However you missed one key point.

1) Freighter pilot is in a fleet (just like the gankers) and has a scout. Freighter never lands on grid because scout sees the gankers in local and the known bump alt on gate. Absolute advantage, freighter pilot.

2) Freighter pilot is in a fleet (just like the gankers) and has a logistics cruiser or two. Gank fleet doesn't engage because they know the next idiot won't have reps. Absolute advantage, freighter pilot.

See how easy it is?


1. Scout sees multiple Macherials hanging at the choke point gates, only option is to log, try later, use a low sec system, not a good idea or take a risk. if player has a second account then get that into hisec and use that to web freighter need to be in same corp or do a duel, having the skill to fly a specialised web ship is needed with faction webs for range, I use twin faction webs on a Loki and works very well. Freighter needs to train something like that to be sure, take special care around regional gates.

Note that the ganker made it seem so easy.

2. Oh dear hisec is mainly a one man corp or NPC corp setup due to scatter gun war decs, so join up a corp to have friends and then find a war dec, chances of doing this fairly remote unless you are a small corp who does not do stuff in hisec that often.

See how difficult it is?


No, I don't see the difficulty. For number one, you avoided certain death. Logging out intact is your WIN. Dock up and use a DST with MWD/cloak to finish hauling.

For point 2, you could... I don't know... Grow a pair and fight? You will lose some... But you'll win some too.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#466 - 2015-10-19 12:45:45 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Eve is more of a hunter killer or camp pipes gates or undocks game, it is not a convoy protection game
One implies the other, I even have a real world example for you.

During WW2 the Kriegsmarine operated the U-Boat in a solo hunter killer role for lone targets and upon finding a convoy switching to a Wolfpack tactic where the solo hunter acted as a "warpin" for all the other solo hunters. The counter to which was convoy escorts, often with air combat support (scouts) and fire fighting (logi) capabilities.


Are we talking about a game or real life, massive differences in terms of participation makes your comparison utterly irrelevant, go and ask Marmite POH, and BAW whether they would do convoy protection in hisec, they would qoute you 10 times their normal cost...
Sorry, it's an apt comparison in that the tactics used are broadly the same, as are the counters.

If I was in the business of flying freighters I wouldn't be asking Marmite, PoH or BAW for escort duties, it's not what they do, which is why they'd either laugh and turn down the contract or charge an extortionate amount for it. I'd be using a couple of alts or friends in corp with web bonussed ships (escort ships) to slingshot my way across the universe in short order.


Yes which is what I do and what you would do, however not everyone is to our level in this game...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Aoife Fraoch
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#467 - 2015-10-19 12:47:25 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I talked about AI CONCORD hunter killers that are not god like and their status enabling them to be shot
We already have this, they're called the Faction Police.

Concord are godlike, period. At one time they were not and much mayhem happened. Arbitrarily changing even one Concord ship to suit your purpose of them being attackable would backfire hilariously.

Quote:
and forcing them to use bigger ships by having freighters be fitted with a target spectrum breaker forcing them away from massive numbers of catalysts.
They'll bring something else, and people still won't shoot at it.


You are probably right.

By all accounts EVE used to allow criminals more time on grid and let them be more exposed to other players actions. And so now we have concord in it's current form.

The changes needed to let players have a more meaningful role against high sec criminals would be called nerfs to high sec and massive buffs to gankers.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#468 - 2015-10-19 12:47:57 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Hi. You must be new here.

You are correct, a fleet of gankers does everything it can to tip the scales to their advantage. However you missed one key point.

1) Freighter pilot is in a fleet (just like the gankers) and has a scout. Freighter never lands on grid because scout sees the gankers in local and the known bump alt on gate. Absolute advantage, freighter pilot.

2) Freighter pilot is in a fleet (just like the gankers) and has a logistics cruiser or two. Gank fleet doesn't engage because they know the next idiot won't have reps. Absolute advantage, freighter pilot.

See how easy it is?


1. Scout sees multiple Macherials hanging at the choke point gates, only option is to log, try later, use a low sec system, not a good idea or take a risk. if player has a second account then get that into hisec and use that to web freighter need to be in same corp or do a duel, having the skill to fly a specialised web ship is needed with faction webs for range, I use twin faction webs on a Loki and works very well. Freighter needs to train something like that to be sure, take special care around regional gates.

Note that the ganker made it seem so easy.

2. Oh dear hisec is mainly a one man corp or NPC corp setup due to scatter gun war decs, so join up a corp to have friends and then find a war dec, chances of doing this fairly remote unless you are a small corp who does not do stuff in hisec that often.

See how difficult it is?


No, I don't see the difficulty. For number one, you avoided certain death. Logging out intact is your WIN. Dock up and use a DST with MWD/cloak to finish hauling.

For point 2, you could... I don't know... Grow a pair and fight? You will lose some... But you'll win some too.


Point 1, yes an option, one I also use myself...

Point 2, have a look at that RvB Ferox fleet of 50 taking on a BAW fleet, the RvB FC said they would not be able to beat a 50 man Ferox fleet, and you can guess what happened, now say that again?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#469 - 2015-10-19 12:49:37 UTC
Aoife Fraoch wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I talked about AI CONCORD hunter killers that are not god like and their status enabling them to be shot
We already have this, they're called the Faction Police.

Concord are godlike, period. At one time they were not and much mayhem happened. Arbitrarily changing even one Concord ship to suit your purpose of them being attackable would backfire hilariously.

Quote:
and forcing them to use bigger ships by having freighters be fitted with a target spectrum breaker forcing them away from massive numbers of catalysts.
They'll bring something else, and people still won't shoot at it.


You are probably right.

By all accounts EVE used to allow criminals more time on grid and let them be more exposed to other players actions. And so now we have concord in it's current form.

The changes needed to let players have a more meaningful role against high sec criminals would be called nerfs to high sec and massive buffs to gankers.


Jonah is resistant to change, or even trying something that could create better content, they just want their easy kills.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#470 - 2015-10-19 12:50:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Dracvlad wrote:
Yes which is what I do and what you would do, however not everyone is to our level in this game...
That is their problem, I certainly don't care that other people don't value their stuff enough to take steps to protect it.

Quote:
Jonah is resistant to change, or even trying something that could create better content, they just want their easy kills.
Wrong on all counts.

I'm open to change, it's that my definition of good and bad changes differs from yours.

I welcome most things that create content, unless it involves getting NPC's to do stuff that has always been in the hands of the players.

Their kills are easy because for the most part their victims make it so.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#471 - 2015-10-19 12:52:30 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
well you basically just said there is ways to be safe, not gankers fault that pilots fly around in solo capital ships with out a care in the world.

You know if i ever have to safe logoff a faction battleship after a fight, my corp wont let me log on till a support fleet is available to get it home safely, i wont undock a marauder or a blops unless i have a support fleet, i decide to do pve then my scout sits on the acceleration gate watching while im dscanning for probes

If i move my capitals and my route involves an sov system, ill take an alternative route regardless of the amount of fatigue i gain, because fck jumping a capital into a system i cant dock in,. not to mention anything expensive i move has a scout with a cyno ready.

I take these precautions because i value my assets


You are talking about a completely different sandbox, I too have faction BS's, Marauders, BLOP's and I take care of them much like you do in low and null sec, in hisec I am also careful but the threat level is different, the best defence is actually to only fit T2 on my Marauder. Risk migration, why would that ganker go for me unless it was because I was a target they really wanted to kill, but a t2 Marauder has zero impact on me, I have 5...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#472 - 2015-10-19 12:54:04 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Yes which is what I do and what you would do, however not everyone is to our level in this game...
That is their problem, I certainly don't care that other people don't value their stuff enough to take steps to protect it.



But I am not a casual player, I play to be tough to kill, and enjoy the hardness of the game, not that many people are like me in hisec, after all I spend most of my time in null sec...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#473 - 2015-10-19 12:55:49 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
well you basically just said there is ways to be safe, not gankers fault that pilots fly around in solo capital ships with out a care in the world.

You know if i ever have to safe logoff a faction battleship after a fight, my corp wont let me log on till a support fleet is available to get it home safely, i wont undock a marauder or a blops unless i have a support fleet, i decide to do pve then my scout sits on the acceleration gate watching while im dscanning for probes

If i move my capitals and my route involves an sov system, ill take an alternative route regardless of the amount of fatigue i gain, because fck jumping a capital into a system i cant dock in,. not to mention anything expensive i move has a scout with a cyno ready.

I take these precautions because i value my assets


You are talking about a completely different sandbox, I too have faction BS's, Marauders, BLOP's and I take care of them much like you do in low and null sec, in hisec I am also careful but the threat level is different, the best defence is actually to only fit T2 on my Marauder. Risk migration, why would that ganker go for me unless it was because I was a target they really wanted to kill, but a t2 Marauder has zero impact on me, I have 5...


i would take the same precautions in highsec as i do in nullsec

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Black Pedro
Mine.
#474 - 2015-10-19 12:59:12 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
The numbers don't lie. Red Frog Freight completes 99.89% of all their contracts. How much more "balanced" do you want freighters to be? 99.99% safe? Maybe 99.9999% safe?


So Red Frog are representative of freighters in hisec, they have some interesting tricks that make them a lot safer then people can possibly imagine. Sadly Black Pedro has no idea what it is, but I do and I am not telling...

Great. So you agree that it is possible for freighter pilots to be nearly perfectly safe in highsec. Why is this thread still going on then?

You also said that freighter ganking had no significant economic impact on New Eden. If suicide ganking can almost be 100% avoided, and is having no real impact on New Eden, why would you think that CCP is going to change anything?

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#475 - 2015-10-19 13:00:43 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
well you basically just said there is ways to be safe, not gankers fault that pilots fly around in solo capital ships with out a care in the world.

You know if i ever have to safe logoff a faction battleship after a fight, my corp wont let me log on till a support fleet is available to get it home safely, i wont undock a marauder or a blops unless i have a support fleet, i decide to do pve then my scout sits on the acceleration gate watching while im dscanning for probes

If i move my capitals and my route involves an sov system, ill take an alternative route regardless of the amount of fatigue i gain, because fck jumping a capital into a system i cant dock in,. not to mention anything expensive i move has a scout with a cyno ready.

I take these precautions because i value my assets


You are talking about a completely different sandbox, I too have faction BS's, Marauders, BLOP's and I take care of them much like you do in low and null sec, in hisec I am also careful but the threat level is different, the best defence is actually to only fit T2 on my Marauder. Risk migration, why would that ganker go for me unless it was because I was a target they really wanted to kill, but a t2 Marauder has zero impact on me, I have 5...


i would take the same precautions in highsec as i do in nullsec


Are there bubbles in hisec, so you would still warp to a perch before warping to a gate, I think not, you take precautions, but they have different levels, its a different sandbox. The T2 fit is important because in null sec everyone will be after that Marauder, in hisec only people who want those shiny modules that you do not fit are after you, or a mission baiter and they rely on stupidity...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#476 - 2015-10-19 13:01:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Black Pedro wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
The numbers don't lie. Red Frog Freight completes 99.89% of all their contracts. How much more "balanced" do you want freighters to be? 99.99% safe? Maybe 99.9999% safe?


So Red Frog are representative of freighters in hisec, they have some interesting tricks that make them a lot safer then people can possibly imagine. Sadly Black Pedro has no idea what it is, but I do and I am not telling...

Great. So you agree that it is possible for freighter pilots to be nearly perfectly safe in highsec. Why is this thread still going on then?

You also said that freighter ganking had no significant economic impact on New Eden. If suicide ganking can almost be 100% avoided, and is having no real impact on New Eden, why would you think that CCP is going to change anything?


X-FEANOR, go look at his killboard, I saved him once from a hyperdunk once by the way, he is representative of freighters in hisec not Red Frog.

EDIT: Nope I said I was worried about the impact of your ganking campaign in conjunction with the nerfs to hisec competitiveness and how that would impact hisec markets, yes there has been a reduction, but not enough to threaten the market and the people who are left are mainly so rich that they don't care. So at a strategic level I did not have to bother with the unappealing gameplay offered to AG players.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#477 - 2015-10-19 13:04:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Dracvlad wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
The numbers don't lie. Red Frog Freight completes 99.89% of all their contracts. How much more "balanced" do you want freighters to be? 99.99% safe? Maybe 99.9999% safe?


So Red Frog are representative of freighters in hisec, they have some interesting tricks that make them a lot safer then people can possibly imagine. Sadly Black Pedro has no idea what it is, but I do and I am not telling...

Great. So you agree that it is possible for freighter pilots to be nearly perfectly safe in highsec. Why is this thread still going on then?

You also said that freighter ganking had no significant economic impact on New Eden. If suicide ganking can almost be 100% avoided, and is having no real impact on New Eden, why would you think that CCP is going to change anything?


X-FEANOR, go look at his killboard, I saved him once from a hyperdunk once by the way, he is representative of freighters in hisec not Red Frog.

EDIT: Nope I said I was worried about the impact of your ganking campaign in conjunction with the nerfs to hisec competitiveness and how that would impact hisec markets, yes there has been a reduction, but not enough to threaten the market and the people who are left are mainly so rich that they don't care. So at a strategic level I did not have to bother with the unappealing gameplay offered to AG players.


are you saying all freighter pilots are this stupid? he must make so much isk being able to replace them freighters!

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#478 - 2015-10-19 13:06:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
The numbers don't lie. Red Frog Freight completes 99.89% of all their contracts. How much more "balanced" do you want freighters to be? 99.99% safe? Maybe 99.9999% safe?


So Red Frog are representative of freighters in hisec, they have some interesting tricks that make them a lot safer then people can possibly imagine. Sadly Black Pedro has no idea what it is, but I do and I am not telling...

Great. So you agree that it is possible for freighter pilots to be nearly perfectly safe in highsec. Why is this thread still going on then?

You also said that freighter ganking had no significant economic impact on New Eden. If suicide ganking can almost be 100% avoided, and is having no real impact on New Eden, why would you think that CCP is going to change anything?


X-FEANOR, go look at his killboard, I saved him once from a hyperdunk once by the way, he is representative of freighters in hisec not Red Frog.

EDIT: Nope I said I was worried about the impact of your ganking campaign in conjunction with the nerfs to hisec competitiveness and how that would impact hisec markets, yes there has been a reduction, but not enough to threaten the market and the people who are left are mainly so rich that they don't care. So at a strategic level I did not have to bother with the unappealing gameplay offered to AG players.


are you saying all freighter pilots are this stupid?


He is so much richer then you and me combined 20 times over, just the type of people that keep doing it regardless.

EDIT: That Providence fit is smart...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#479 - 2015-10-19 13:07:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
well you dont know how rich anyone is so you cant really comment that Cool however being rich is not an excuse for being stupid

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#480 - 2015-10-19 13:07:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Lan Wang wrote:
well you dont know how rich anyone is so you cant really comment that Cool


In game...

EDIT: The thing that some AG players get right on his last loss

https://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/2647/5607/original.jpg

Actually, do you have any idea what he actually does in game and who for?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp