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Make the Vagabond great again
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KitCat 01
Based And Redpilled.
Punishing Gray Raven
#1 - 2015-09-19 02:16:57 UTC
My vagabond makes me sad, each time I find it in my hangar, my reaction is:
"oh look the vaga is beautiful, maybe I can think of a fit that doesn't suck ... nope, there is not Sad"

There are a few problems with the vagabond
- the range is too short for kitting (kitting ACS are dead and buried)
- the tracking is weak for brawling since you can't fit a web,
- there can be no possible range control with 4 med slot as a shield tanked cruiserSad
- wait ACs are not everything in the game, what about artillerie? oh I can't even track a navy omen with arties
- the tank is pretty poor, no invul, only one large shield booster is fittable and barely does the trick (get a deimos)
- maybe you can passive tank? nope ...
- maybe you can pve in a vagabond ? nope ...
- maybe you can small gang in a vagabond? gila and orthrus say "nope"
- maybe you can blob in a vagabond? Straight

the only thing that doesn't suck with the vaga is it's speed, which is useless at range because you can't apply your dps ... and useless up close because you'll get scrammed and webbed while you have no range control of your own Cry


I would love to see the vagabond as a dual prop brawler or a beautiful artillerie platform or even as a crazy badass XLSB tanked ****** or a terror for all the kiters or a "i'm going to cut your logi in half" kind of ship ... etc
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#2 - 2015-09-19 06:15:00 UTC
Would this help the Vaga?

Adding an Additional mid slot

Replacing the shield boost bonus skill for 7.5 medium projectile turret tracking speed bonus skill.

Enough grid to be able to fit 720s or an XLSB with 220s.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#3 - 2015-09-19 07:52:08 UTC
all artillery needs someone to look at the fitting requirements and go "wait what" over at CCP:)
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#4 - 2015-09-19 13:55:18 UTC
It is an extremely good ship but to be effective solo it probably needs an extra mid.
Azazel The Misanthrope
Oblivion's Pendulum
Top Tier
#5 - 2015-09-19 15:33:00 UTC
Most Non-Cerberus, Non-Deimos HACs are in a bad place right now.
Thron Legacy
White Zulu
Scorpion Federation
#6 - 2015-09-19 16:50:30 UTC
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
Most Non-Cerberus, Non-Deimos HACs are in a bad place right now.

cough ishtard cough (except you mean bad as in balancing in general)
General Guardian
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-09-19 17:09:58 UTC
Asb Vagabond fits still work just fine and have huge tank thanks to the boost bonus.

Vaga is more for catching targets than running away (kiting) in my opinion.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2015-09-19 17:10:34 UTC
FireFrenzy wrote:
all artillery needs someone to look at the fitting requirements and go "wait what" over at CCP:)


Isn't the difference in fitting requirements what contributed to the winmatar getting nerfed?

They would take a ship with enough power grid to fit artillery, switch the guns out for auto cannons, and use the ridiculous different in grid to fit plates and turn the ship into a brawler? Or was that something that was specific to the hurricane?
General Guardian
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-09-19 17:17:36 UTC
Try fitting artillery to a panther lol. They don't even fit without any other modules on the ship...
KitCat 01
Based And Redpilled.
Punishing Gray Raven
#10 - 2015-09-19 23:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: KitCat 01
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
Most Non-Cerberus, Non-Deimos HACs are in a bad place right now.

Most HAC have their niche in the current meta:
the ishtard is a ****** drone ship
the cerb is a ****** shield missile boat
the zealot, eagle and muninn are in an ok place for damage projection
I have found the deimos and sacrilege extremely powerful in wh for their amazing tank

FireFrenzy wrote:
all artillery needs someone to look at the fitting requirements and go "wait what" over at CCP:)

true <3

General Guardian wrote:
Asb Vagabond fits still work just fine and have huge tank thanks to the boost bonus.

Vaga is more for catching targets than running away (kiting) in my opinion.


this is also true, however an autocannon scythe fleet performs, at least as well, for this role while keeping the cost far lower.

the vaga definitely need that fifth med slot to fit a web/invul/AB/cap booster
my opinion is to drop a low slot for 1 more mid slot
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#11 - 2015-09-20 01:34:29 UTC
more like drop a high for a mid, nerf the speed a little, a little more EHP.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
KitCat 01
Based And Redpilled.
Punishing Gray Raven
#12 - 2015-10-19 02:25:03 UTC
[ BUMP ]
My Vaga is getting depressed
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-10-19 04:33:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
KitCat 01 wrote:
with 4 med slot as a shield tanked cruiserSad

This is your problem. You have to stop treating your Vagabond as a tanking cruiser and start treating it as a speed demon. Tank it like you'd tank a shield Harbinger and now you can fit a web. Now put weapon mods in the lows.

I'm not saying Vaga is perfect (I wouldn't know), but I can say with certainly that it isn't useless and that furthermore kiting autocannons are not a thing of the past, even if they aren't popular in the current meta. It's all just part of cyclic balance.



edit: The Vagabond and the Sacrilege have the same slot layout but a fundamentally different defensive setup. Both have damage, rate of fire, and range bonuses and can shoot out to similar ranges with short range weaponry, though the Sacrilege is effective a bit farther away while the Vagabond instead has greater maneuverability. Ultimately, the best way to choose which to fly is to look at the slot layout. If that slot layout says "Armor Tank!" to you, then fly a Sacrilege. If that slot layout says "Shield Tank!" to you, then fly a Vagabond. Both viewpoints are common and correct for this particular slot layout.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
KitCat 01
Based And Redpilled.
Punishing Gray Raven
#14 - 2015-10-19 07:02:36 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
KitCat 01 wrote:
with 4 med slot as a shield tanked cruiserSad

This is your problem. You have to stop treating your Vagabond as a tanking cruiser and start treating it as a speed demon. Tank it like you'd tank a shield Harbinger and now you can fit a web. Now put weapon mods in the lows.

I'm not saying Vaga is perfect (I wouldn't know), but I can say with certainly that it isn't useless and that furthermore kiting autocannons are not a thing of the past, even if they aren't popular in the current meta. It's all just part of cyclic balance.



edit: The Vagabond and the Sacrilege have the same slot layout but a fundamentally different defensive setup. Both have damage, rate of fire, and range bonuses and can shoot out to similar ranges with short range weaponry, though the Sacrilege is effective a bit farther away while the Vagabond instead has greater maneuverability. Ultimately, the best way to choose which to fly is to look at the slot layout. If that slot layout says "Armor Tank!" to you, then fly a Sacrilege. If that slot layout says "Shield Tank!" to you, then fly a Vagabond. Both viewpoints are common and correct for this particular slot layout.


I never saw the vagabond as a tanky ship. Even though it has a shield booster bonus, you can only dedicate 2 slots for his tank at most.
Like many other minmatar ships, the Vaga is supposed to compensate lower general stats with a better general versatility. This is usually the challenge the minmatar race has to face and I embrace it. Minmatar ships have the lowest sig radius, usually a good speed and a very versatile weapon system.
The reason why the vagabond is struggling in today's meta is because of the lack of viable tactics it can use to overcome the enemy's strength. I want to see the vagabond as I see minmatar cruisers, as a versatile platform that can use a wide (and balanced) variety of quality to fight its enemies.

Today, the only way you can use the vagabond's speed is to run away