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Thoughts on PLEX prices and what can possibly be done.
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Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#21 - 2015-10-17 22:52:37 UTC
Back in my day the only way we could play MMOs was by paying for them with a subscription.

But ya know what? times change. We got gifted with PLEX and were able to use our play time to fund our play time.

Play 2 Play is what it's called.

Now you kids are crying about the change no longer being good enough?

To change it again?

Make it EASIER for you to play for free?

Then how come you all **** and moan about another change?

Another change that makes accessing the game easier?

Buying skill points?

Get good, bads.

#thebest
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#22 - 2015-10-17 23:03:13 UTC
moep wrote:
I am more concerned about the players not paying their sub fee or purchasing Plex for real money anymore.

So to answer your question: Plex price should increase, motivates the credit card and helps CCP.

Im starting to think you dont have the slightest grasp on the basics of economicsRoll

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
moep
Doomheim
#23 - 2015-10-17 23:12:13 UTC  |  Edited by: moep
ArmyOfMe wrote:
moep wrote:
I am more concerned about the players not paying their sub fee or purchasing Plex for real money anymore.

So to answer your question: Plex price should increase, motivates the credit card and helps CCP.

Im starting to think you dont have the slightest grasp on the basics of economicsRoll


Gave me a laugh for that one. Please explain me the market basics, Mr. economical expert. Really looking forward to your answer.

But to give you a small idea, in real life economy, CCP can't plex their server costs.


EDIT:
I'll give you a like for a funny troll attempt Lol
Hole Checker
Black Hole Navy
#24 - 2015-10-17 23:34:21 UTC
Anybody who cant afford to pay for at least one sub a month should probably consider getting a job instead of playing video games in the first place

If you have no job and play a lot then plex is still easily affordable if you work too much to get enough isk to buy plex then you pay a sub its really not that much money for the amount of entertainment you get outta it

I really don't see the problem
Niriel Greez
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2015-10-17 23:40:52 UTC
Plex prices aren't even much of a problem; players make a lot more ISK/hour than they did when plex was 400m.

Sure, if you were missioning in HS for 30m an hour years ago and haven't learned that there are more lucrative things you could do, your little Retriever might have trouble keeping up with plex prices.
Feledain
Elmsfeuer
#26 - 2015-10-17 23:49:42 UTC
Uh uh econ 101

I predict something and explain afterwards why it was right or wrong.

SP for isk will decrease Plex price!

Dumb rich guys allready buy officer mods, they will also buy SP to fly a Vindicator on day 1.
They will sell Plex on mass.

SP for isk will increase Plex price!

All those guys who skilled mining or that useless skill X will want to make some isk or transfer the SP to an alt.
They buy plex and convert it to aurum so they can make these pakets.

Quote:

Gave me a laugh for that one. Please explain me the market basics, Mr. economical expert. Really looking forward to your answer.

But to give you a small idea, in real life economy, CCP can't plex their server costs.


It helps CCP more when ppl buy plex, because gametime costs more $ via Plex.
Who gets the gametime in the end is irrelevant.
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#27 - 2015-10-17 23:54:01 UTC
moep wrote:


But to give you a small idea, in real life economy, CCP can't plex their server costs.

Where exactly do you think plexes come from? Roll
Its not like ppl get them out their ass by magic you know

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
moep
Doomheim
#28 - 2015-10-18 00:05:41 UTC
ArmyOfMe wrote:
moep wrote:


But to give you a small idea, in real life economy, CCP can't plex their server costs.

Where exactly do you think plexes come from? Roll
Its not like ppl get them out their ass by magic you know


You should really improve your reading and interpretation skills.

Plex price = price on the isk market in the context of this thread, maybe start at the beginning of a thread and not the end.

Well I do not know what you stick out of your ***, maybe your a magician.

But back to topic and to help you a bit: Credit card = real money, buy plex or sub. Quite easy, isn't it?

Jesus Christ, your telling me something about market principles Ugh
Adooni
H.O.M.E.W.O.R.L.D
#29 - 2015-10-18 00:15:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Adooni
I made similar post about PLEX and I proposed solution

PLEX

but I made similar error like you. I thoughts that player or CCP would liek to do something but honestly people that truly are impact by PLEX price are just to busy to farm in game trying to gather just enough ISK to play EVE one more week longer. And at forum are posting people that $20 are not money for them (for same countries is few % of salary) and they do not care if PLEX will be even 10B or people that manipulate PLEX price to earn even more money.

I would like for CCP to publish how many % of people subscribe EVE and how many is buying PLEX in game to play one more mount. Looking at about 200 of my colleagues I would say that about 90% is buying PLEX in game what will mean that soon game will die. As I post in my topic from 2014 more than 100 of my colleagues left game and main reason for this was that they need to farm quests for min 2 weeks just to get money for PLEX. I know that in LS is possible making same quests made 60M in 2-3 minutes but not every one got skills, fleet, knowledge to do that.

I see several similar post about this subject and if CCP do not do something the best MMO game ever will die in 2016.
I remember that middle of 2013 60days GTC price was about 800M now after 2 years we need to play 1.2B just for 30 days subscription. We lost already about 50% of players and now is the last chance to change it.

Please remember that PLEX/GTC price rise is not just because inflation is because a lot of players that were buing PLEX left game when colleagues that used PLEX in game for subscribe left game. There is were sensitive balance between P2P players and F2P players and we are now in situation that will crush game soon.

PS. For me paying $20 for PLEX is not an issue but if my colleagues that buy PLEX in game will leave it is likely I will leave with them and will look for different game !!!
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2015-10-18 00:39:48 UTC
Shade Alidiana wrote:
I think we were having player numbers issue here. The fact that I'm posting on forums suggests that I'm holding a subscription and so am mostly ok with the price.

But we two (three, with the person that liked you) aren't alone in this world. I find the whole AUR thing disruptive to normal things' pace, so limiting PLEX to only being what it initially was (game time) and maybe way to pay for fanfest and similar tickets can do a little damage control.

I wouldn't care if CCP didn't try silly things again and again to bring more people in. I've suggested a possible way to do so, without disrupting gameplay and other stuff.

P. S. yes, I'm among those considering old EVE being better than current one. And it getting worse and worse with time (even thougs some features/changes are nice).


So what you are saying is people who used to pay for their sub with ISK/PLEX should have their game subsidized?

Yeah, thanks...but no.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2015-10-18 00:49:13 UTC
Rykuss wrote:
Here's a radical solution: Pay the sub.


What OMG no!!!!

When I mine minerals they are free...right?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2015-10-18 00:50:48 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Break the link between PLEX and Aurum.


Which will do nothing if both can be traded in the game. Roll

Markets are interconnected you know. What happens in 1 will affect 1 or more other markets.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2015-10-18 00:54:50 UTC
Deck Cadelanne wrote:
This is really simple:

1. In game PLEX price is a function of the market. Straight supply v. demand. Seeing as the number of player accounts has dropped and PLEX price has gone up, this suggests a drop in supply more than anything.

2. Has the recent PLEX sale increased supply and driven down the in game PLEX price? Market says no as in game PLEX price still going up. So why aren't players with jobs spending cash for PLEX? Perhaps because they already have enough ISK to do what they want?

3. Declining number of player accounts is not caused by in game PLEX price. It is caused by a lot of things but not that.

If your friends were driven out of the game by the in game price of PLEX, they ought to consider getting jobs and just paying a sub. EVE is far more entertaining that way.


1. Yes, probably correct. Fewer people buying PLEX means fewer people selling them in game.

2. Yes, the price dropped during the duration of the sale.

3. The only people who would leave due to PLEX prices would be those who could not afford to pay the monthly sub anyways, but then again how many such players are there.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#34 - 2015-10-18 03:48:46 UTC
Shade Alidiana wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
if they uncouple plex and aur people will just look to see what gets the most isk and buy that. Might get a slight decline in price as I assume people are lazy, and will probably just buy plex. Look at the difference between the multi-character training cert and PLEX. there is almost no difference, but the MPTC trades with far lower volume. Also there are so many skins and clothing items that trading in those would get rather complected and a pain in the arse fast. way, way easier to just buy a plex convert to aur and get the skins you want.

You can still buy aur and get the skins you want
Currently, PLEXes that were bought just to be converted to AUR don't ever hit market. With my suggestion, as I stated in the OP, any PLEX purchased will be either used for game time (I consider 2nd character actually more game time, because it's quite similar to 2nd account without multiboxing option) or sold.

People buy PLEX and turn it into AUR: Result: that PLEX does not enter the market.
CCP makes PLEX so it cannot be turned into AUR. So people buy AUR directly. Result: PLEX does not enter the market.

I don't see the difference.

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Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
#35 - 2015-10-18 04:36:50 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Shade Alidiana wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
if they uncouple plex and aur people will just look to see what gets the most isk and buy that. Might get a slight decline in price as I assume people are lazy, and will probably just buy plex. Look at the difference between the multi-character training cert and PLEX. there is almost no difference, but the MPTC trades with far lower volume. Also there are so many skins and clothing items that trading in those would get rather complected and a pain in the arse fast. way, way easier to just buy a plex convert to aur and get the skins you want.

You can still buy aur and get the skins you want
Currently, PLEXes that were bought just to be converted to AUR don't ever hit market. With my suggestion, as I stated in the OP, any PLEX purchased will be either used for game time (I consider 2nd character actually more game time, because it's quite similar to 2nd account without multiboxing option) or sold.

People buy PLEX and turn it into AUR: Result: that PLEX does not enter the market.
CCP makes PLEX so it cannot be turned into AUR. So people buy AUR directly. Result: PLEX does not enter the market.

I don't see the difference.


I've been told you get 6k AUR for 1 PLEX? For the same price game offered me 4k only. Since people will buy the things they want regardless(it's not that hard to spend a few $), this will actually get CCP more money than it would now.


____________________

Also, some people in the topic seem to forget two things.
1) "if you don't like it, don't play it" is not what's in CCP's interest. PLEX pay for their servers more than subs.
2) PLEX is 15-20$ depending on quantity, sub 11-15. Guess what would you like more, subscribers or "freebies"?
Maekchu
Doomheim
#36 - 2015-10-18 04:42:18 UTC
Shade Alidiana wrote:
I've been told you get 6k AUR for 1 PLEX?

One plex is 3500 AUR
Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
#37 - 2015-10-18 04:44:25 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
Shade Alidiana wrote:
I've been told you get 6k AUR for 1 PLEX?

One plex is 3500 AUR


Thanks. I then remove P.P.S. from the OP, my initial thoughts were right.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#38 - 2015-10-18 04:56:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Calum Raholan wrote:
Now lets take some facts into account shall we? Now I'm a British scrub so I'm not sure if this is just for us, but... Plex cost more than a subscription. Now can we think about this from CCP's point of view? CCP would, I assume, rather someone bought a plex and it was used rather than someone subscribing to the game for a month and then hitting cancel as many players do now the reoccurring payment system has been introduced. So in fact, its more beneficial to CCP if these players don't get a job and then purchase a plex off the market, removing it from circulation and allowing for its position as cheapest in the market to be taken by another plex which will then be sold and so on and so forth.

I'm not an accountant, so the following is not necessarily fact, just a layman's view.

While PLEX income is higher than subscription income on a per unit basis, it's not as stable a source of income and so may make business planning more difficult than the equivalent number of subscriptions.

For example, take 2 groups of 100 players. Group 1 pays subscription on an annual basis, while the other group uses PLEX on a monthly basis.

In the case of Group 1, CCP receive a full year of 100 subscriptions up front. That represents a real ~$10,000 in revenue to CCP that allows them to plan ahead for the coming year.

In the case of Group 2, it's not guaranteed that all 100 people will continue to purchase PLEX every month and the income only allows planning for a short period.

What would you rather have? A guaranteed $10,000 up front that is in your account, or the possibility of double that, but only receiving it in ~$2000 amounts per month, but not really knowing if that full revenue will arrive.

I'm sure there is a way that the average PLEX income helps CCP to make business plans, but I think there is something more stable/secure about income received 12 months in advance than there is about a variable, monthly approach to income.

So yeah, PLEX income represents a potential for higher income, but is much more volatile. So I think there are advantages and disadvantages to both that doesn't automatically make PLEX a better choice for CCP.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#39 - 2015-10-18 06:59:42 UTC
Grr

another combined plex / playercount thread.
this gets from boring to anoying.

plex Prices are playerdriven, life with it and keep your stoopid ideas for yorself.
players do leave, cause thy get pisssed and/or bored/anoyed/angry over playing the game.
for every incentive eve has, two or more reasons are there to dislike the game.
eve has to much real life attidues, to much work, for little fun.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#40 - 2015-10-18 07:25:04 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Calum Raholan wrote:
Now lets take some facts into account shall we? Now I'm a British scrub so I'm not sure if this is just for us, but... Plex cost more than a subscription. Now can we think about this from CCP's point of view? CCP would, I assume, rather someone bought a plex and it was used rather than someone subscribing to the game for a month and then hitting cancel as many players do now the reoccurring payment system has been introduced. So in fact, its more beneficial to CCP if these players don't get a job and then purchase a plex off the market, removing it from circulation and allowing for its position as cheapest in the market to be taken by another plex which will then be sold and so on and so forth.

I'm not an accountant, so the following is not necessarily fact, just a layman's view.

While PLEX income is higher than subscription income on a per unit basis, it's not as stable a source of income and so may make business planning more difficult than the equivalent number of subscriptions.

For example, take 2 groups of 100 players. Group 1 pays subscription on an annual basis, while the other group uses PLEX on a monthly basis.

In the case of Group 1, CCP receive a full year of 100 subscriptions up front. That represents a real ~$10,000 in revenue to CCP that allows them to plan ahead for the coming year.

In the case of Group 2, it's not guaranteed that all 100 people will continue to purchase PLEX every month and the income only allows planning for a short period.

What would you rather have? A guaranteed $10,000 up front that is in your account, or the possibility of double that, but only receiving it in ~$2000 amounts per month, but not really knowing if that full revenue will arrive.

I'm sure there is a way that the average PLEX income helps CCP to make business plans, but I think there is something more stable/secure about income received 12 months in advance than there is about a variable, monthly approach to income.

So yeah, PLEX income represents a potential for higher income, but is much more volatile. So I think there are advantages and disadvantages to both that doesn't automatically make PLEX a better choice for CCP.


Just to add, if only 25 of the sub playing group bought 1 plex each per month.the demand would be ridiculously high and prices astronomical high. Also leaving 75% non sub players either subbing or not playing. CCP needs sub paying players to drive plex sales. So more free to play players occasionally pay a sub, when demand gets too high.