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Intergalactic Summit

 
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"Heir" Khanid selects Sani Sabik champion

Author
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#21 - 2015-10-17 21:35:46 UTC
Thank you Ms Priano for your timely post.

I hope we can have productive debates on matters like these in the future with civility and a mutual understanding, taking in to account that we might not ultimately agree but must respect each other's position. That was the point on respect that I was implying in my previous posting.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Goldfinch
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-10-17 21:37:40 UTC

Xindi Kraid wrote:
Maybe I don't understand your religion
...
Or, more likely you need to outgrow such silly superstitions.
Perhaps it doesn't make any sense because it's a fairly tale.
...
I'm not an expert on your government

Quote:
you people would COMPLETELY ignore it because it doesn't fit your worldview rather than accepting maybe your worldview is what was flawed rather than the facts

Quote:
I also struggle to understand how everything could possibly be God's will, if you keep finding exceptions.


The only thing that is clear to us at this very moment is that you need to stop.

Have you ever heard the call to prayer? Have you ever kneeled in surrender to God? Do you know our Scriptures? Our edicts? Do you have Faith? Have you toiled and bled for Amarr? Would you die for God, die for Empire, die to defend your Faith?

What you know of our culture and our creed is not sufficient. We will not engage in a theological discussion with a person who has nothing vested in our religion. We Amarr have plenty of disagreements and we argue and debate with each other at every opportunity as a way to understand and strengthen our Faith and our communion with God. But we do not share a connection with you. By your own admission you do not understand our religion and our ways.

For the love of IKAME, if nothing else, please desist from your insulting rhetoric. We will not suffer through this parody of a discussion about the Amarr Faith and of the Empress. You are being disrespectful in the way you are choosing to assert your beliefs. You will not find a single insulting word we personally have cast against the Caldari or the State. We expect you to reciprocate in kind, because we think that on the inside you are a better person than you've made yourself out to be in this discussion.



Are we mistaken about you?

\J/

veiled and bound

my origin story (on eve-backstage)

Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#23 - 2015-10-17 21:46:57 UTC
Appeal to emotion harder. Maybe if you try again but are super serious this time for reals it might work on someone.
Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#24 - 2015-10-17 21:47:33 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
Thank you Ms Priano for your timely post.

I hope we can have productive debates on matters like these in the future with civility and a mutual understanding, taking in to account that we might not ultimately agree but must respect each other's position. That was the point on respect that I was implying in my previous posting.


Yes. This.
Ascentior
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#25 - 2015-10-17 21:54:16 UTC
Perhaps since Mr Kraid has been politely asked to stop, and seemingly has, it would be only fair that we cease the rebuttals.

To the topic at hand, I sincerely hope that the upcoming trials show the power of faith. May it be God's will.

Admiral of PIE Inc., Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris (See 'PIE Public' for recruitment)

Honorary Fabricator-General of the Imperial Navy

Chosen by God to serve the Empire.

Alizebeth Amalath
Doomheim
#26 - 2015-10-17 21:56:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Alizebeth Amalath
Between Mr. Onzo and Lady Rkard, I think everything that needs to be said has been.

I would advise my flock to follow the example of Her Majesty in cases like these:

When Mex the Heretic attacked Her Majesty in public and in the forums of New Eden, she ignored him, because he was insignificant. Max could no more harm or impinge the Empress than a single fly could bring down the golden towers of Dam-Torsad. A single Caldari or anyone else, for that matter, making such foolish and uneducated statements on the IGS is even less of a concern than Max is. Yes, they are our allies, for now, and we should expect some level of decency from the State, however, worry yourself not with the insignificant mewling of a single pilot.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#27 - 2015-10-17 21:56:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Xindi Kraid
I had a quoted out post, but it was lost to a communications error.

I would like to thank Onzo for actually bearing with me and explaining things. I think maybe I understand a bit more even if I still remain largely ignorant, and I appreciate him taking the time to explain where everyone else has just said I have no faith and I don't understand without bothering to educate me so that I might actually gain those things.

The God's will/plan/etc. makes a bit more sense now, and how it relates to things, though as an ignorant outside. I still must ask, though, don't you think, if this really was a bad choice, that Khanid will get exactly what he deserves?

Also, I wasn't trying to question your faith. In fact, I think faith is important, whether or not it is attached to a religion or the divine, since faith is little different than trust and we can't have a functioning society without that. What I take massive issue with is when people alter facts to support beliefs, when, as a scientist, the first duty is to let fact inform beliefs, and be prepared to let go of what you think is true in light of new data.

I will exit the discussion and apologize for a poor choice of words, but I won't apologize for sticking my nose in your business and asking about recent events in your politics. As is the way of the Summit, not so long ago you were discussing the politics of other nations even occasionally interjecting with regards to the turmoil the State endured in recent history.

edit:I would also like to note, my previous post was being written around the time Onzo's post had been recorded, so I didn't get the chance to read it before my own post had been recorded.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#28 - 2015-10-17 22:05:04 UTC
Thank you Mr Kraid. I hope we can both move on from this small spat on a simple forum, and as I posted earlier engage in more constructive debate in the future to each side's satisfaction.

While I have no doubts attempting to convert you would be quite the methaphorical mountain to climb, I hope that you won't be afraid to ask me in the future if you would like any other clarification and understanding on the way we see things and operate. I would naturally reciprocate on advice regarding the State, but as a former resident I think my bias and understanding there has already firmly been ingrained.

Perhaps a chat over tea about Drifters some time?

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Vollhov
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2015-10-17 22:09:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Vollhov
Del.
Here there was a text. Cry

End of Time. I'm not fanatic, I'm just a servant by Her Majesty the Empress Jamyl Sarum I. It's time to leave this world to me. YC111 to YC117.12.10 20:00

Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#30 - 2015-10-17 22:23:29 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
Thank you Mr Kraid. I hope we can both move on from this small spat on a simple forum, and as I posted earlier engage in more constructive debate in the future to each side's satisfaction.

While I have no doubts attempting to convert you would be quite the methaphorical mountain to climb, I hope that you won't be afraid to ask me in the future if you would like any other clarification and understanding on the way we see things and operate. I would naturally reciprocate on advice regarding the State, but as a former resident I think my bias and understanding there has already firmly been ingrained.

Perhaps a chat over tea about Drifters some time?

Of course, If you ever pass though Irjunen, feel free to stop by my office. I always appreciate a good discourse, especially when it is instructive. and again thank you for actually putting up with this idiot when it's far too easy to ignore a problem and hope it sorts itself out.
Ascentior
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#31 - 2015-10-17 22:23:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Ascentior
Xindi Kraid wrote:
The God's will/plan/etc. makes a bit more sense now, and how it relates to things, though as an ignorant outside. I still must ask, though, don't you think, if this really was a bad choice, that Khanid will get exactly what he deserves?

Good question.
It's important to note that is not simply enough to have faith. We must also act on our faith. Lest we all sit around the fire waiting for God to smite the enemy that has surrounded us.
It is every Amarrian's duty to act as the embodiment of God's plan. And it is plain to see that we are not given daily instructions, but must look to scripture, our past, our leaders, and the universe for guidance. And be prepared to have our faith tested, have our mistakes laid before us, only when it is all laid bare, can we hope to know God.

Quote:
"Which test reveals more of the soul, the test that a man will take to prove his faith, or the test that finds the man who believed his faith already proven? If you know this answer, then you also know which of these challenges bear the greatest penalty for failure. The gates of paradise will open for you one time only; woe to the soul who dares to knock twice." - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 5:14

Admiral of PIE Inc., Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris (See 'PIE Public' for recruitment)

Honorary Fabricator-General of the Imperial Navy

Chosen by God to serve the Empire.

Vollhov
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2015-10-17 22:47:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Vollhov
Del.
Here there was a text. Cry

End of Time. I'm not fanatic, I'm just a servant by Her Majesty the Empress Jamyl Sarum I. It's time to leave this world to me. YC111 to YC117.12.10 20:00

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#33 - 2015-10-18 01:07:21 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
In this instance, though, I will say this: I do find Lieutenant Kernher's reaction understandable in one part, and curious in another. On one hand, an imperial heir selecting an overt Blood Raider who has engaged in ritual sacrifice is something that warrants inquiry; on the other hand, her seeming refusal to accept the Theology Council's decision that King Khanid II is indeed an imperial heir seems curious.


No righteous Amarr will recognize Khanid as heir, nor as emperor. He is a traitor and heretic that has clearly used his time since Her Imperial Majesty's forgiveness to plant seeds of corruption in the Empire to try and validate his wickedness.

Khanid as heir, and Tetrimon suppression edict lifted? No one but the emperor of Amarr may order these things! There are demons infesting the highest levels of the Empire. It is the Red Chamberlain, all over again.
Alizebeth Amalath
Doomheim
#34 - 2015-10-18 01:57:51 UTC
We do not know what edicts the Empress issued in the event of her death, which she knew was coming.
Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#35 - 2015-10-18 02:40:10 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Makoto Priano wrote:
In this instance, though, I will say this: I do find Lieutenant Kernher's reaction understandable in one part, and curious in another. On one hand, an imperial heir selecting an overt Blood Raider who has engaged in ritual sacrifice is something that warrants inquiry; on the other hand, her seeming refusal to accept the Theology Council's decision that King Khanid II is indeed an imperial heir seems curious.


No righteous Amarr will recognize Khanid as heir, nor as emperor. He is a traitor and heretic that has clearly used his time since Her Imperial Majesty's forgiveness to plant seeds of corruption in the Empire to try and validate his wickedness.

Khanid as heir, and Tetrimon suppression edict lifted? No one but the emperor of Amarr may order these things! There are demons infesting the highest levels of the Empire. It is the Red Chamberlain, all over again.


Those are heavy accusations, Lieutenant, that should not be made lightly. I would suggest that we should adopt a bit more of a wait and see approach to these admittedly disturbing events. The right course for Amarr will make itself clear.

That said, the issue of Khanid having selected a heretic as a potential champion is cut and dry. Open supporters of heresy have no place in a Holy Rite such as the Succession Trials. I seriously hope that Khanid is unaware of Edeity's allegiance and that he immediately works to show that his selection of a heretic was not the insult to everything holy that it appears to be.

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#36 - 2015-10-18 03:06:55 UTC
As you say, my lord.
Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#37 - 2015-10-18 06:46:35 UTC
Let the boy keep whatever company he wishes. Our paths will eventually need to cross, and I assure you my twin swords of judgement will cut him down so thoroughly that all will mistake him for a beggar, crawling on his knees.

~

Anyanka Funk
Doomheim
#38 - 2015-10-18 08:52:45 UTC
I didn't even want to speak on this because really. There is a difference between Blood Raiders and Sani Sabik. This guy is a Blood Raider, loyal to Omir Sarikusa, like me. We live in Delve. We are in the boons out here. We are here to make isk and praise red god. You Amarrians are going to say you kicked Omir Sarikusa out of the bleak lands, but really? Really? The bleak lands don't have half as many resources as Delve. Elise and pl want to front like they run Delve. Ha! Please! Blood Raiders run Delve! And we kill and do more than any other faction out here. And we still find the time to do raids in Amarr, Domain, high security space... Next time you see a Blood Raider in space and you want to shoot, just remember we have our own space here in Delve. We don't even need Khanid. Khanid bows to us!
Anyanka Funk
Doomheim
#39 - 2015-10-18 08:54:35 UTC
Elise Randolph wrote:
Let the boy keep whatever company he wishes. Our paths will eventually need to cross, and I assure you my twin swords of judgement will cut him down so thoroughly that all will mistake him for a beggar, crawling on his knees.

STFU
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#40 - 2015-10-18 09:31:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Xindi Kraid wrote:
I had a quoted out post, but it was lost to a communications error.

I would like to thank Onzo for actually bearing with me and explaining things. I think maybe I understand a bit more even if I still remain largely ignorant, and I appreciate him taking the time to explain where everyone else has just said I have no faith and I don't understand without bothering to educate me so that I might actually gain those things.

The God's will/plan/etc. makes a bit more sense now, and how it relates to things, though as an ignorant outside. I still must ask, though, don't you think, if this really was a bad choice, that Khanid will get exactly what he deserves?


I do not... uh... personally subscribe to Mr Onzo intepretation of God.

There is Creation, and there is the Divine, or God. God is what the Amarr dogma makes it to be at any time. Finding God is a long and arduous process that is the root of every Amarr life. Finding God can only be accomplished through a better understanding of Creation.

God is not the same depending on every individual, or every heterodoxy. God is legion in every mind, an infinite of facets reflected in every individual. God though, eventually, is called to become one and a single one at the end of our journey.

It is not a matter of micromanagement and anthropomorphic sky idolatry that only belong to individual fatherly beliefs, but of theological essence.

For some that way, Khanid II being brought once again in the Succession Trials is righteous and part of God's plan. For some others, it is not. Eventually, it is a matter of dogma. What the TC says on the matter, is what God should be for Amarr at the time being, and what God's plan is. And it might change and be corrected at some point in the future, the same way Scripture is always kept in motion, and the same way any Emperor can undo what his predecessor did.

Justifications of 'resurrections', avoidance of Shatol'Syn, and all political related matters are eventually tied to the laws written by man in accordance to God's plan. Nobody ever claimed that men's struggles are immune to apparent hypocrisy. Even the Amarr are not exempt of sin and mistakes.

The Amarr remain pilgrims stumbling and getting back up on the road to the Divine.