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The end of Hybrid buff
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#401 - 2012-01-05 18:15:18 UTC
Two Comments:
- Both Hungry Eyes and Tanya Powers just pulled No True Scottsman against ElCholo's fight. "Of course you killed them because they aren't really good PVPers!". Yet ElCholo himself says he's barely an average PVPer...
- Yes, Hungry Eyes: everyone in Eve is in 0.0 partaking in your "serious fleet fights". Roll

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#402 - 2012-01-05 18:21:35 UTC
just admit that medium rails need fixing. that's all i ask.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#403 - 2012-01-05 18:35:24 UTC
I can't comment on medium rails because I don't use them. I can say that I'm kicking ******* ass every day with small, medium, and large blasters though. I know that you guys are gonna say that its because everyone I play against is complete **** but I fraps most fights I'm in and I don't feel like I'm the most uber PVPer this game has ever seen...... so... many.. mistakes...

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
ElCholo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#404 - 2012-01-05 18:39:25 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:
just admit that medium rails need fixing. that's all i ask.


I've never used medium rails, so unlike ever forum whore on here who feel blasters need to be fixed because of eft numbers, I won't say they do or don't for lack of experience with them.
JusyFrut
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#405 - 2012-01-05 19:35:14 UTC
gallente and hybrids suck cholo! You should know better then trying to argue with EFT-warriors who have absolutely no clue.
ElCholo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#406 - 2012-01-05 19:58:18 UTC
JusyFrut wrote:
gallente and hybrids suck cholo! You should know better then trying to argue with EFT-warriors who have absolutely no clue.


I know, I'm sorry. :(
Sa'haira
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#407 - 2012-01-05 20:56:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Sa'haira
Fade Azura wrote:

lol cmon man you got 4 gallente ships in a 9 man fleet in the killmail and one is a logi and one died because his blasters forced him into range so he can be tackled back most likely causing the loss ....


Hi, I'm the deimos pilot. It is a little bit odd to theory craft what happened in something as chaotic as a fleet fight. I've heard of eft warrioring, but this is a bit too much >_<.

You appear to be under the bizzare notion that being close to tornado's is a bad thing. Are you sure you thought that through? Being within blaster range is the absolute best place to be vs a tornado gang, especially in an armour fit. the damage i'd have been taking out at 20km+ would have been ridiculous.

Appart from your bizzare understanding of how to mitigate dps, you were wrong anyway. The cause for the loss was simply pilot error. I'd disconnected earlier in the roam and logi pilots forgot to re-add me to watch list when i came back, and so reacted too slowly. (i received zero rr... this should be pretty obvious from the damage taken stats). This of course made me pretty sad, but as elcholo said we're just average pilots at best. *shrug* In such a small gang the logi's should have had everyone locked permanently... but apparently they were locking from the watch list. so yeah, we're terrible (and kick 14 flavours of **** into people regardless)

The other deimos' did receive full aggro and didn't break a sweat. As an aside, the reason this gang worked vs a tornado gang, which as Hungry eye states should have "kited and shredded everything from 50-70km" is because the recent minor speed boost allowed the deimos to be just fast enough to prevent that happening whilst the PG buff allowed for more dps (used to have to be electrons for a 1600m fit with cap booster) to sink them quicker being a nice secondary benefit. The tornado's did try and make range, and did try to kite. It didn't work.

Canes, Drakes and logi's would have had their face kicked in with their significantly higher sig and lower resists, and the tornado's would have been able to kite hurricanes a lot easier than the deimos (so basicvally wrong on all counts when saying "it's bullshit, and you could have achieved better results with Canes, Drakes and their respective logis.")

not that i particularly care. the less people think of gallente the more engageable my fleet comps are anf the more fun i'll have.

I'd like to add an unrelated repsonse to liang. we've been field testing medium rail astarte in loki bonused gangs and it's amazing :D
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#408 - 2012-01-05 21:51:04 UTC
Sa'haira wrote:

I'd like to add an unrelated repsonse to liang. we've been field testing medium rail astarte in loki bonused gangs and it's amazing :D


The numbers look like it should be pretty pro, but I can't personally comment. I'll give it a shot! :D

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Kingwood
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#409 - 2012-01-05 22:44:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Kingwood
Fade Azura wrote:


425mm AC II with +1 TE is recieving 23.6% more effect then a heavy pulse II with +1 TE and a 13.7% more effect then the heavy neutron blaster II +1 TE. this is quite a significant advantage. and is well known to people that understand the numbers and gives minmatar ships a much greater skirmish ability coupled with their speed = OP

the 425mm AC II is the superior weapon system in terms of range and in terms of increase of range due to tracking enhancers in comparison to its racial counterparts.


Optimal vs. falloff, hi.

Minmatar are not op, but keep living in your dream world. I also checked your killboard and usual gang size, and unless this is a forum warrior alt I have no clue why you're giving input at all.

Edit: I guess I better clarify. Instead of looking at total range increase a better way to compare would be to look at damage done at certain ranges. And Minmatar are supposed to be the skirmish race, news at 11.
Fade Azura
Weaponized Autists Cartel
#410 - 2012-01-05 23:11:27 UTC
kingwood stfu your killboard is complete crap ... mine is way better ,,, you lost 50 ships in like 2-3 months bro ... just because i dont play eve everyday and have a real life instead of being a tool like you who get their ass kicked daily in low sec. ... gtfo noob .... come and challenge me anyday an ill put my boot in your ass
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#411 - 2012-01-05 23:15:27 UTC
Fade Azura wrote:
kingwood stfu your killboard is complete crap ... mine is way better ,,, you lost 50 ships in like 2-3 months bro ... just because i dont play eve everyday and have a real life instead of being a tool like you who get their ass kicked daily in low sec. ... gtfo noob .... come and challenge me anyday an ill put my boot in your ass


I put 2 billion on Kingwood.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Kingwood
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#412 - 2012-01-05 23:16:35 UTC
Fade Azura wrote:
kingwood stfu your killboard is complete crap ... mine is way better ,,, you lost 50 ships in like 2-3 months bro ... just because i dont play eve everyday and have a real life instead of being a tool like you who get their ass kicked daily in low sec. ... gtfo noob .... come and challenge me anyday an ill put my boot in your ass


Challenge accepted. Message me in game. I'll put 1 bil on the line, we can fight in lowsec.
Sa'haira
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#413 - 2012-01-05 23:36:23 UTC
250m on kingwood too. only terrible pvpers don't lose ships (seriously).
Korg Tronix
Mole Station Nursery
#414 - 2012-01-05 23:43:39 UTC
I will bet 100m on Kingwood and .1 isk of Fade (the odds say its worthwhile)

Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One! [zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams]
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#415 - 2012-01-06 00:12:51 UTC
The irony of this thread is everyone's whining about the weapon systems when clearly it is the ships which suck. Eagle, anyone? Crap before the buff, crap after the buff. Lachesis - it can't even fit enough Hybrids to make enough DPS to do anything, or even fit a 1600 plate without serious ACR rigging.

Medium rails could be winsauce right now for all we know but aside from shield-rail Brutixes and Astarte's nothing is going to ever have a hope in hell of proving it because either you can't fit enough of them (observe the totally superfluous 'utility' high on the eagle), or if you do you have zero tank and zero lowslot availability for magstabs (Lachesis) or you have bonused drones (Vexor, Myrm). Last but not least, there's ships with hybrid bonuses that can't fit rails AND a tank (Lachesis, Thorax).

This is probably CCP Tallest's next challenge - tweaking the fitting envelope, slot config, bonuses and raison d'etre of ships which use rails. I mean...Eagle is totally obsolescent with the Naga available cheper and easier, which leaves Caldari HAC pilots with the Cerb - and you may as well kick yourself in the nuts by this stage and go back to Drake.

Lachesis could be OK as a solo boat if, like the other combat recons, you could get 350-450 DPS out of it. But 190DPS on chilli is a disaster, and that's with an 800 plate, to boot. Sure, sit at 60km with damps but you aren't killing anything either with missiles or failguns (which you can't fit with a magstab, hello 3 slot tank).

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#416 - 2012-01-06 00:39:32 UTC
Fade Azura wrote:
kingwood stfu your killboard is complete crap ... mine is way better ,,, you lost 50 ships in like 2-3 months bro ... just because i dont play eve everyday and have a real life instead of being a tool like you who get their ass kicked daily in low sec. ... gtfo noob .... come and challenge me anyday an ill put my boot in your ass



Wow - this post is one of the most terrible ones I've ever read. I totally disagree with Kingwood on Minmatar not being OP.

But :

Looking at your kb, I assume that character is a pure blob nub dps alt, which is fine (this character is a pure forum/price check alt).

But please, never ever call out anyone on their kb stats if you don't post using the character you did that solo-pvp with.

i know I don't, because I never post with my main - hence I deny myself calling out others on their killboard stats.


Oh - and in case that's your main - calling one of the few pvp players with a set of balls a noob for loosing ships (and no - I don't know kingwood personally, however he has come to my attention before) you're just ridiculous.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Admiral Pelleon
White Shadow Imperium
#417 - 2012-01-06 01:00:08 UTC
Sa'haira wrote:
250m on kingwood too. only terrible pvpers don't lose ships (seriously).


I don't lose ships.

Oh shi-

Those who cannot keep up will be left behind, to watch from a distance. And those who stand in our way will not watch at all.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#418 - 2012-01-06 01:06:16 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
Trinkets friend wrote:
The irony of this thread is everyone's whining about the weapon systems when clearly it is the ships which suck. Eagle, anyone? Crap before the buff, crap after the buff. Lachesis - it can't even fit enough Hybrids to make enough DPS to do anything, or even fit a 1600 plate without serious ACR rigging.

Medium rails could be winsauce right now for all we know but aside from shield-rail Brutixes and Astarte's nothing is going to ever have a hope in hell of proving it because either you can't fit enough of them (observe the totally superfluous 'utility' high on the eagle), or if you do you have zero tank and zero lowslot availability for magstabs (Lachesis) or you have bonused drones (Vexor, Myrm). Last but not least, there's ships with hybrid bonuses that can't fit rails AND a tank (Lachesis, Thorax).

This is probably CCP Tallest's next challenge - tweaking the fitting envelope, slot config, bonuses and raison d'etre of ships which use rails. I mean...Eagle is totally obsolescent with the Naga available cheper and easier, which leaves Caldari HAC pilots with the Cerb - and you may as well kick yourself in the nuts by this stage and go back to Drake.

Lachesis could be OK as a solo boat if, like the other combat recons, you could get 350-450 DPS out of it. But 190DPS on chilli is a disaster, and that's with an 800 plate, to boot. Sure, sit at 60km with damps but you aren't killing anything either with missiles or failguns (which you can't fit with a magstab, hello 3 slot tank).


The problem with the tweaks where mostly that they just added a few percent here and there, CCP did this in the past to, but again you had a environment where the meta game worked for you(90% webs, ships with thin tanks, smaller gangs, faster hulls) instead against you(scrams, massive applied DPS loses against undersized ships, slower but much better tanked nano fittings, far more DPS at medium range etc.). Also even fixed niche role ships(I actually would be total happy if I at least get this back) are not really this satisfying for many people if you look at the bigger picture, and I see no real reason why gallente and caldari shouldn't have a place in the current med range fleet pvp, even without being just the next fleet doctrine, transferring the concept of dps heavy with light tanks could be easy done for gallente+rails or changing caldari + rails in good tanks with useful med range damage projection like amarr.

DPS don't really is a big issue on the Lachesis, since it is a long range fast locking gang tackler, not much else. It got nanoed and shield tanked even ages before QR(because you next to never use the damps on it, since the damp nerf) and even with a 48-60km+ point range it needs to be quick to dedicate range and don't let targets slip away. It was also the a extraordinary tackler under sentry conditions, because it could perma tank them, while sporting a quick lock time what was very useful before HICs. Both of the damage bonuses are in some way even the damp bonus are rather pointless and would be better spend on stuff like the MWD bonus, cap recharge, speed or scan res. The problem is more with the Arazu, by her pretty bad cap, dps and the point that you have to many dps in the drones(that actually can be and will be shot by a target, that you try to tickle to death with it) instead of the guns.

Btw, I easily outtanked a railstarte with my Oracle on sissi at any range between 20-110km. The problem with rails is basically that they need to good medium range to long range(tracking&DPS) to be useful fleet weapons, even outside the very limited sniping role and some baseline concept changes like written above.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#419 - 2012-01-06 01:06:39 UTC
Sa'haira wrote:
250m on kingwood too. only terrible pvpers don't lose ships (seriously).

Literally the only post I have ever liked.
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#420 - 2012-01-06 01:23:27 UTC
Fade Azura wrote:
kingwood stfu your killboard is complete crap ... mine is way better ,,, you lost 50 ships in like 2-3 months bro ... just because i dont play eve everyday and have a real life instead of being a tool like you who get their ass kicked daily in low sec. ... gtfo noob .... come and challenge me anyday an ill put my boot in your ass



Quit drinking.