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Crime & Punishment

 
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Hyperdunking nerf on sisi, to the battlements!

First post First post
Author
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#261 - 2015-10-16 00:55:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Dracvlad wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Quote:
I don't like CONCORD, personally I would deal with this differently, I like the idea of hunter killer NPC's going around with the new AI hunting gankers that were on the run and not able to dock etc, though perhaps a gankers HQ would be interesting gameplay.
Creating consequences for gankers, above and beyond those already provided by NPCs, is the job of players, it's one of the attractions of playing a sandbox game like Eve where there is minimal interference from non player entities. Introducing more NPCs to do it for you is a bloody terrible idea.


I would suggest that you read what I said again, I was suggesting replacing CONCORD with something more realistic based on the new AI which someone else raised here, I have always disliked how CONCORD works in this game.
I read it, and my reply stands, if you want more risk for gankers then it is up to you to provide it, calling for more NPCs to provide it because you're too damn lazy or ineffectual to provide it yourself is a terrible idea.

Still waiting for an explanation of how hyperdunking is an exploit that gets around Concord, who destroy every ship a person uses while under a GCC timer, when Concord destroys every ship that a hyperdunker uses while under a GCC timer.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Estevan Andrard
Doomheim
#262 - 2015-10-16 01:06:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Estevan Andrard
Leto Thule wrote:
Estevan Andrard wrote:
Comparison is to say what one thing equals or differs from another.

To say what I consider being something I see being done is not a comparison, is adequately defined as "name calling" for a reason.


Please show me where I said comparison. I said associate. Also, I realize in your furious attempt to backpedal and not look like an idiot of the finest caliber, grammar may take a back seat.... However the quoted post reads like a 5th grade level sentence, and makes no sense at all. Please leave our sub forum now.


Wow. Just Wow.

It is a combo hit of fallacy and non-sense that appeals to personal attack instead of providing any reason to actually consider you anything, and then just to put the cherry on top, you just presume to own anything ?

That is just the kind of thing that makes this forum the worse place for actual discussion. And that is why I dont bother using correct english or revising what I write. I couldnt care less what you or anyone in here thinks about my english. I do have all the criticism of my english skills I need hanging on my wall. And it comes from people from whom the criticism surpass yours in importance by the 100th potency.

As for the actual answer to your post: You are blocked. Have a nice day.

If con is the opposite of pro, then is Congress the opposite of progress?

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#263 - 2015-10-16 02:03:07 UTC
Estevan Andrard wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Estevan Andrard wrote:
Comparison is to say what one thing equals or differs from another.

To say what I consider being something I see being done is not a comparison, is adequately defined as "name calling" for a reason.


Please show me where I said comparison. I said associate. Also, I realize in your furious attempt to backpedal and not look like an idiot of the finest caliber, grammar may take a back seat.... However the quoted post reads like a 5th grade level sentence, and makes no sense at all. Please leave our sub forum now.


Wow. Just Wow.

It is a combo hit of fallacy and non-sense that appeals to personal attack instead of providing any reason to actually consider you anything, and then just to put the cherry on top, you just presume to own anything ?

That is just the kind of thing that makes this forum the worse place for actual discussion. And that is why I dont bother using correct english or revising what I write. I couldnt care less what you or anyone in here thinks about my english. I do have all the criticism of my english skills I need hanging on my wall. And it comes from people from whom the criticism surpass yours in importance by the 100th potency.

As for the actual answer to your post: You are blocked. Have a nice day.
You tell people that you think their playstyle is as bad as paedophilia and are shocked when they take offence?

Get out.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack

Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#264 - 2015-10-16 02:06:14 UTC
Estevan Andrard wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Estevan Andrard wrote:
Comparison is to say what one thing equals or differs from another.

To say what I consider being something I see being done is not a comparison, is adequately defined as "name calling" for a reason.


Please show me where I said comparison. I said associate. Also, I realize in your furious attempt to backpedal and not look like an idiot of the finest caliber, grammar may take a back seat.... However the quoted post reads like a 5th grade level sentence, and makes no sense at all. Please leave our sub forum now.


Wow. Just Wow.

It is a combo hit of fallacy and non-sense that appeals to personal attack instead of providing any reason to actually consider you anything, and then just to put the cherry on top, you just presume to own anything ?

That is just the kind of thing that makes this forum the worse place for actual discussion. And that is why I dont bother using correct english or revising what I write. I couldnt care less what you or anyone in here thinks about my english. I do have all the criticism of my english skills I need hanging on my wall. And it comes from people from whom the criticism surpass yours in importance by the 100th potency.

As for the actual answer to your post: You are blocked. Have a nice day.


Looks like I'm firing up good ol "everywhere and terrible" again. Your tears just purchased a wardec.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#265 - 2015-10-16 02:14:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Leto Thule wrote:
Looks like I'm firing up good ol "everywhere and terrible" again. Your tears just purchased a wardec.
Going by his corp description they'll roll/hop corp to evade it Sad

I suggest spending the money on a suicide ganking campaign instead, at least you'll get some kills.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

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Faylee Freir
Abusing Game Mechanics
#266 - 2015-10-16 03:35:02 UTC
This I what I've never understood abou some players being overly vocal about how they think eve ought to be. I understand that as human beings that span many different cultures and beliefs that some of the core values or encouraging the lack of any in eve is a major point of contention. The fact is that eve is a virtual world that takes place in New Eden and has very different society that CCP has created. Conflict, loss, power, and greed are some of the driving forces that are easier to be apart of. Being a "good guy" is certainly a valid way to portray your character(s), but not everyone wants to be told that their MMO experience is wrong.

I understand a lot of people here will say that if you're a carebear, then you're playing the game wrong. I completely disagree with this thought because without carebears I wouldn't have entertaining content, and vise versa. Now our idea of content might not appeal to everyone, but that's our right... Just like its your right to generate your own content.

EVE is not for the weak or lazy... I guess you could play while being weak or lazy but you will find that lots of people will take advantage of this and that might not be fun. EVE has always been a niche game where the players drove most of everything while abiding by the rules provided. So no, EVE is not a casual game I would play with any and all of my real life friends because I know they couldn't handle it. The reason for this huge narrative is to point out that our style of gameplay is perfectly fine just as "yours" is. You will have your opinions just like we do, but you have to understand that c&p, content creators, and fans / appreciators of our work and stories dwell here. My point is that EVE has been this way since its creation, so who are you to try and change CCP's vision with claims and empty quotes of what you think they want?

Regarding hyperdunking... There's a lot of misinformation about the methods and techniques used as well as the basic mechanics that get parroted here as on Reddit. Unless you actually have a decent amount of experience doing this activity then I don't think you're qualified to speak on how easy or abusive you think it is. You are welcome to have an opinion on the risk vs reward but even that's iffy. Unless I'm dunkin some kind of whale, I almost always have more isk on the grid. It's not my fault that no one sees fit to actually try and inflict true loss on my part.
Kandu Harr
Doomheim
#267 - 2015-10-16 05:14:27 UTC
Faylee Freir wrote:

Regarding hyperdunking... There's a lot of misinformation about the methods and techniques used as well as the basic mechanics that get parroted here as on Reddit. Unless you actually have a decent amount of experience doing this activity then I don't think you're qualified to speak on how easy or abusive you think it is. You are welcome to have an opinion on the risk vs reward but even that's iffy. Unless I'm dunkin some kind of whale, I almost always have more isk on the grid. It's not my fault that no one sees fit to actually try and inflict true loss on my part.


I disagree with your comment that 'you must have qualifications' to speak on this topic. Anyone who can read, analyze, or has ever suffered a loss from this is more than entitled to speak. Do we muzzle a victim? Thwart all criticism or discussions? Sounds pretty orwellian to me, even for a game.

Something being "broken" many times in Eve comes down to how it is used and the effect it ultimately has on the game. This is mostly true for large-fleet dynamics. But is also true elsewhere. Had hyperdunking remained somewhat rare and elite, then you would likely not see the backlash you do. Nor would I even care, personally. But it is becoming quite common and regular. AND, I think most importantly is now a regular feature in the main trade hubs in the game. Too much of a good thing?

Until this makes it into a game patch, nothing has changed.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#268 - 2015-10-16 06:14:16 UTC
If you think ganking has consequences in the game of alts, you're either a fool or in willful denial of reality because you benefit from the present state of affairs.

Losing a 2 million ISK gank ship and an empty pod is not a consequence. I spend more than that on light drones every time I take a ship out.

So much of these discussions contain so much feigned ignorance of how ganking is executed and who is behind it that I can't help but laugh.

I could roll an anonymous ganking alt and be in CODE freighter fleets or solo'ing mining barges inside two weeks. I would suffer no meaningful consequences. OH NO MY -10 CAN'T DOCK IN HIGHSEC WHATEVER SHALL I DO. Oh right, run incursion sites or DED sites on my other toons to buy my ganker another 50 catalysts. Maybe keep my sec status just high enough to farm kill rights on the side.

I just don't find it exciting to undock every 15 minutes to engage in an activity that's less challenging than most PvE.

I have no problem with people that run a nice quiet gank-for-profit operation raking in ISK off the dumbs in highsec, but the constant bleating about highsec ganking somehow being a central part of the game, is tiresome.

If Goonswarm wants content, load up your supers and go invade some Russians. You'll get content.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#269 - 2015-10-16 06:18:01 UTC
Faylee Freir wrote:
This I what I've never understood abou some players being overly vocal about how they think eve ought to be. I understand that as human beings that span many different cultures and beliefs that some of the core values or encouraging the lack of any in eve is a major point of contention. The fact is that eve is a virtual world that takes place in New Eden and has very different society that CCP has created. Conflict, loss, power, and greed are some of the driving forces that are easier to be apart of. Being a "good guy" is certainly a valid way to portray your character(s), but not everyone wants to be told that their MMO experience is wrong.

I understand a lot of people here will say that if you're a carebear, then you're playing the game wrong. I completely disagree with this thought because without carebears I wouldn't have entertaining content, and vise versa. Now our idea of content might not appeal to everyone, but that's our right... Just like its your right to generate your own content.

EVE is not for the weak or lazy... I guess you could play while being weak or lazy but you will find that lots of people will take advantage of this and that might not be fun. EVE has always been a niche game where the players drove most of everything while abiding by the rules provided. So no, EVE is not a casual game I would play with any and all of my real life friends because I know they couldn't handle it. The reason for this huge narrative is to point out that our style of gameplay is perfectly fine just as "yours" is. You will have your opinions just like we do, but you have to understand that c&p, content creators, and fans / appreciators of our work and stories dwell here. My point is that EVE has been this way since its creation, so who are you to try and change CCP's vision with claims and empty quotes of what you think they want?

Regarding hyperdunking... There's a lot of misinformation about the methods and techniques used as well as the basic mechanics that get parroted here as on Reddit. Unless you actually have a decent amount of experience doing this activity then I don't think you're qualified to speak on how easy or abusive you think it is. You are welcome to have an opinion on the risk vs reward but even that's iffy. Unless I'm dunkin some kind of whale, I almost always have more isk on the grid. It's not my fault that no one sees fit to actually try and inflict true loss on my part.


For my part I treat hisec the same as lowsec and null sec, I play expecting to be attacked, as a result I have not lost a ship ever to gankers. In terms of hyperdunking I have saved about 20 freighters from that form of ganking, certainly I do not understand all the nuances of the mechnics from the ganker side, the thing is that once you have located the hyperdunk its easy to stop.

Are you seriously telling me that you are risking that bowhead and freighter against the AG group who do not really do offensive ganking, seriously that's your lack of understanding on risk, its about as close to 0% as you can get.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#270 - 2015-10-16 07:41:32 UTC
Faylee Freir wrote:
This I what I've never understood abou some players being overly vocal about how they think eve ought to be. I understand that as human beings that span many different cultures and beliefs that some of the core values or encouraging the lack of any in eve is a major point of contention. The fact is that eve is a virtual world that takes place in New Eden and has very different society that CCP has created. Conflict, loss, power, and greed are some of the driving forces that are easier to be apart of. Being a "good guy" is certainly a valid way to portray your character(s), but not everyone wants to be told that their MMO experience is wrong.

I understand a lot of people here will say that if you're a carebear, then you're playing the game wrong. I completely disagree with this thought because without carebears I wouldn't have entertaining content, and vise versa. Now our idea of content might not appeal to everyone, but that's our right... Just like its your right to generate your own content.

EVE is not for the weak or lazy... I guess you could play while being weak or lazy but you will find that lots of people will take advantage of this and that might not be fun. EVE has always been a niche game where the players drove most of everything while abiding by the rules provided. So no, EVE is not a casual game I would play with any and all of my real life friends because I know they couldn't handle it. The reason for this huge narrative is to point out that our style of gameplay is perfectly fine just as "yours" is. You will have your opinions just like we do, but you have to understand that c&p, content creators, and fans / appreciators of our work and stories dwell here. My point is that EVE has been this way since its creation, so who are you to try and change CCP's vision with claims and empty quotes of what you think they want?

Regarding hyperdunking... There's a lot of misinformation about the methods and techniques used as well as the basic mechanics that get parroted here as on Reddit. Unless you actually have a decent amount of experience doing this activity then I don't think you're qualified to speak on how easy or abusive you think it is. You are welcome to have an opinion on the risk vs reward but even that's iffy. Unless I'm dunkin some kind of whale, I almost always have more isk on the grid. It's not my fault that no one sees fit to actually try and inflict true loss on my part.


> Be weak, lazy, but moderately knowledgeable of game mechanics.
> Run logi, booster and scout alts and only engage targets that don't understand the meta game.
> Win EVE, all day every day in highsec because outside of major hubs your chances of being escalated or third partied on are effectively zero.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#271 - 2015-10-16 07:56:57 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
You tell people that you think their playstyle is as bad as paedophilia and are shocked when they take offence?

Get out.
The joke is that post has received three likes. So he's not alone in considering they are the same.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#272 - 2015-10-16 08:14:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Actually earlier in the thread I said that the loss of players was in hisec, the actual information on that came from some work that Gevlon Goblin did on logins and later by Fozzie saying that on a podcast on Evenews24. The OP should note the second source which I forgot about.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#273 - 2015-10-16 09:32:51 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
You tell people that you think their playstyle is as bad as paedophilia and are shocked when they take offence?

Get out.
The joke is that post has received three likes. So he's not alone in considering they are the same.
He's admitted elsewhere that he's using alts to bump his like count, hopefully those 3 likes are him patting himself on the back for being a douchebag who considers paedophilia to be a minor matter.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#274 - 2015-10-16 09:38:35 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
You tell people that you think their playstyle is as bad as paedophilia and are shocked when they take offence?

Get out.
The joke is that post has received three likes. So he's not alone in considering they are the same.
He's admitted elsewhere that he's using alts to bump his like count, hopefully those 3 likes are him patting himself on the back for being a douchebag who considers paedophilia to be a minor matter.


A minor matter, was that a joke?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Mag's
Azn Empire
#275 - 2015-10-16 09:43:06 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
A minor matter, was that a joke?
Wait. Now you get posting when an unintended pun happens? Yet silence about the original post?

Seriously?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#276 - 2015-10-16 09:50:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Dracvlad wrote:
A minor matter, was that a joke?
No, it was not. Minor has several meanings.

Pull your head out of your arse.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#277 - 2015-10-16 09:53:44 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
A minor matter, was that a joke?
No, it was not. Minor has several meanings.

Pull your head out of your arse.


Good, glad to hear that, did not expect you to make a joke like that!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#278 - 2015-10-16 09:57:15 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
A minor matter, was that a joke?
No, it was not. Minor has several meanings.

Pull your head out of your arse.


Good, glad to hear that, did not expect you to make a joke like that!
Thanks, I think. It's not a joking matter.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#279 - 2015-10-16 10:03:15 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
A minor matter, was that a joke?
No, it was not. Minor has several meanings.

Pull your head out of your arse.


Good, glad to hear that, did not expect you to make a joke like that!
Thanks, I think. It's not a joking matter.



It certainly isn't, especially as its getting worse and worse in Europe.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Faylee Freir
Abusing Game Mechanics
#280 - 2015-10-16 12:59:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Faylee Freir
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Faylee Freir wrote:
This I what I've never understood abou some players being overly vocal about how they think eve ought to be. I understand that as human beings that span many different cultures and beliefs that some of the core values or encouraging the lack of any in eve is a major point of contention. The fact is that eve is a virtual world that takes place in New Eden and has very different society that CCP has created. Conflict, loss, power, and greed are some of the driving forces that are easier to be apart of. Being a "good guy" is certainly a valid way to portray your character(s), but not everyone wants to be told that their MMO experience is wrong.

I understand a lot of people here will say that if you're a carebear, then you're playing the game wrong. I completely disagree with this thought because without carebears I wouldn't have entertaining content, and vise versa. Now our idea of content might not appeal to everyone, but that's our right... Just like its your right to generate your own content.

EVE is not for the weak or lazy... I guess you could play while being weak or lazy but you will find that lots of people will take advantage of this and that might not be fun. EVE has always been a niche game where the players drove most of everything while abiding by the rules provided. So no, EVE is not a casual game I would play with any and all of my real life friends because I know they couldn't handle it. The reason for this huge narrative is to point out that our style of gameplay is perfectly fine just as "yours" is. You will have your opinions just like we do, but you have to understand that c&p, content creators, and fans / appreciators of our work and stories dwell here. My point is that EVE has been this way since its creation, so who are you to try and change CCP's vision with claims and empty quotes of what you think they want?

Regarding hyperdunking... There's a lot of misinformation about the methods and techniques used as well as the basic mechanics that get parroted here as on Reddit. Unless you actually have a decent amount of experience doing this activity then I don't think you're qualified to speak on how easy or abusive you think it is. You are welcome to have an opinion on the risk vs reward but even that's iffy. Unless I'm dunkin some kind of whale, I almost always have more isk on the grid. It's not my fault that no one sees fit to actually try and inflict true loss on my part.


> Be weak, lazy, but moderately knowledgeable of game mechanics.
> Run logi, booster and scout alts and only engage targets that don't understand the meta game.
> Win EVE, all day every day in highsec because outside of major hubs your chances of being escalated or third partied on are effectively zero.

So that's what I don't understand is that there are not only direct ship and strategy counters to hyperdunking and even more importantly... FREIGHTER GANKING. You have all the tools at your disposal, yet you cry for CCP to change the game to make it easier for you. It's this helpless midset that should be embarassing for you.

If you guys weren't so stupid and actually knew anything about mechanics you could make almost all ganks 100% unprofitable. The only exception is code because we'll gank empty freighters. **** your freighters.