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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
Fox Spooky Mulder
#1181 - 2015-10-16 00:48:34 UTC
There are two ways something like this can/would work.

1) Make it so that skill point reallocation can only be done to a character and NOT sold/traded.

2) Put a hard limit on the number of ‘Transneural Skill Packets’ that can be made and/or used in a month/year per ACCOUNT.

3) Somewhat unrelated notes:
A) Give us the ability to change the Gender of a character during a resculpt.

B) Give us the ability to change the name of a character [possibly keeping some record of past name available in game] and again limiting it to a certain number of times it can be done per account say per year.
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#1182 - 2015-10-16 00:49:08 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
Querns wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Querns wrote:

The people would continue to persist if their characters were sold.

I support bettering the game, and making the character bazaar nightmare more fluid and more accessible is an unmitigated good.


Of course they would, but they are not selling them anyway. Because they are not commodities to the most of the people.

Except it does not benefit new players, which is original idea? Awesome idea then.

The fact that it didn't happen with such a small sample set is telling of absolutely nothing.

The diminishing returns mechanic supports low-SP players more than it does high-SP players.


Please read the post where i summed it up. Diminishing return mechanic does support low sp players more than high sp. But low sp players cannot afford it without spending a lot of rl cash. So it is fail.


I don't think you understand diminishing returns then.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#1183 - 2015-10-16 00:49:41 UTC
Sella Lesbon wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Sella Lesbon wrote:
Good. I like it.
Don't listen to these oldies that keep blocking this game from evolving.


Oi! Try to remember these "oldies" are the ones who kept EVE going from it's release to now. Don't be disrespectful of them or that fact.


didn't mean to be disrespectful. I think its a good idea as it doesn't create something out of thin air


Appreciate the above. "Oldies\Bittervets" get grief all over and to be honest it makes us bitter lol.

Yeah, at least they got that bit right on the thin air part. That's about it really.
Indy Rider
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1184 - 2015-10-16 00:50:52 UTC
I like the idea, logical extension to the character bazaar - you can already change isk for SP.

WTS Mining Skills.
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#1185 - 2015-10-16 00:53:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Querns wrote:
What I don't get is the "abuse" angle. What's the abuse? Goosing your SP to maximum doesn't somehow also afford you the ships or the real-life skill to use them well.


Malcanis' law....

Vets can speed up alt creations. they'd have the real playing skills in place to make this worthwhile right away.

Richer vets already have isk/plex means to write off paying for game. Not paying their sub fees for a while...well they could say hell I haven't paid for the game in a few months to years...screw it, if aurum based give ccp some money again for a switch.

Even I for truly free tools I use for personal computer interests have if truly amazing have clicked on their donate link since some payment should be given for job well done. Take away is not all eve players are cheap asses who won't cough up some cash. For this especially I would wager.
E1ev1n
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1186 - 2015-10-16 00:53:42 UTC
This devalues character trading. NO. Just NO.

SP trading would be fine but not the reduction of sp because you trade a toon.

Even trading SP sounds bad, how about CCP just seeds up some PLEX and makes it cheaper to train multiple toons by devaluing the PLEX market.
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#1187 - 2015-10-16 00:55:24 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Querns wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Querns wrote:

The people would continue to persist if their characters were sold.

I support bettering the game, and making the character bazaar nightmare more fluid and more accessible is an unmitigated good.


Of course they would, but they are not selling them anyway. Because they are not commodities to the most of the people.

Except it does not benefit new players, which is original idea? Awesome idea then.

The fact that it didn't happen with such a small sample set is telling of absolutely nothing.

The diminishing returns mechanic supports low-SP players more than it does high-SP players.


Please read the post where i summed it up. Diminishing return mechanic does support low sp players more than high sp. But low sp players cannot afford it without spending a lot of rl cash. So it is fail.


I don't think you understand diminishing returns then.


So you are saying that new players do not need to spend isk (cash to get isk/aur) in order to use it?

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know

Camios
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1188 - 2015-10-16 00:57:43 UTC
It's so cool to be against CCP nowadays.

People have always been able to buy skillpoints by buying a character, with very few limitations.
I also think that having to buy someone's else character just looks bad. It's not your character, it will never be (if you look at it from an emotional point of view). Buying a character of course gives you a lot of power, though... which is the same as buying skillpoints FROM ANOTHER PLAYER.

I really don't get thist resistance...


  1. You already can buy skillpoints from other players (characters, but it is frankly the same)
  2. You already can buy ISK from other players
  3. Why the hell you should not be able to buy skillpoints from another player? You already can!!
  4. I get that it's cool to hate CCP nowadays but I don't quite like it, go and vomit your hate somewhere else


Fly safe, you all.
_C
Estevan Andrard
Doomheim
#1189 - 2015-10-16 00:57:56 UTC
There is an unwritten book players transmit through forum tradition from generations to generations of griefplayers that might have been titled "The way I play is the right way to play", and that is from where they take statements like "Mining is boring", "The pleasure of EVE is solo PvP", and "My ship should balance to another entire different class of ship so I can take down a capital with two frigates and a shuttle" kind of stuff.

However, there is another book, some devs may have a glimpse when brainstorming, that could be titled "People in EVE are essentally good and will use the powers we give only for good".

Sometimes devs talk about something, even the most pessimist start to rethink that maybe it wont be exploited dry. Then you login in EVE, take out your ship for a spin, and the first phrase on local chat just kill the magic of dev blogs.

Devs and players alike, in their majority forget the rule of shame for any game:

- Any measure for helping new players will help more veterans. The new players usually have no skill or experience to fully appreciate what is done for them, but the veteran has. There is virtually nothing short of tutorials that was made to new players that didnt turned into veteran profiting of advantage.

- Any measure of providing solo play viability becomes a group/alt play enhancement by the potency of alts by the potency of people. The power you give to one character is the power of every alt, and every alt holder. There is no escape from it.

- Any measure of providing ease of changing sov just add the power of bigger groups to take more sov from smaller groups, generating an even bigger area of influence in the hands fo the already benefited veterans holders of dozens of accounts that amassed a fortune and influence through out eve history.

It is the EVE equivalent of civil disarmament to reduce crime. You not taking the guns away from possible criminals, you giving the criminals reason to believe citizens will not fight back.

If con is the opposite of pro, then is Congress the opposite of progress?

Ahekao Yamete
What IU Doing
Brothers of Tangra
#1190 - 2015-10-16 00:58:28 UTC
i love this idea! now i can **** the users older than me! by my MONEY POWER
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#1191 - 2015-10-16 00:59:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Zan Shiro wrote:
Querns wrote:
Winter Archipelago wrote:
You know, the more I think about this, the less I dislike it. I still hope that there are faster decays in return, and I want to see a hard cap, but I'm actually warming up to the idea. The biggest concern in my mind right now is how much it'll cost. Too low, and it'll be abused to Hell and back. Too high and it'll be useless.

What I don't get is the "abuse" angle. What's the abuse? Goosing your SP to maximum doesn't somehow also afford you the ships or the real-life skill to use them well.


Malcanis' law....

Vets can speed up alt creations. they'd have the real playing skills in place to make this worthwhile right away.

Richer vets already have isk/plex means to write off paying for game. Not paying their sub fees for a while...well they could say hell I haven't paid for the game in a few months to years...screw it, if aurum based give ccp some money again for a switch.

Even I for truly free tools I use for personal computer interests have if truly amazing have clicked on their donate link since some payment should be given for job well done. Take away is not all eve players are cheap asses who won't cough up some cash. For this especially I would wager.


Okay, there is this...but where will the SP come from? Suppose you want to make a small army of pilots with say, 15 million SP for who knows what....say carrier alts, say 100 of them. This way you could get 20 players across the map (or 5 midpoints) quickly. You'd need to purchase 1.65 billion SP work of SP packets. Or about 3,300 of them.

Yeah, it is easy to abuse things if you assume the supply is perfectly eleastic--i.e. there is an infinite amount of SP packets out there on the market.

Oh and you'd need 34 accounts too with all 3 character slots free. Yes, many players have multiple accounts, but the point is it might necessitate subbing even more accounts to accomplish this.

Contrary to claims this does not scale well.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Rythen Risalo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1192 - 2015-10-16 01:01:51 UTC
I think this is a really good idea. As someone who's played the game since 2007 but for one reason or another didn't stay subscribed that whole period I have always felt that I had a lot less options than the people I play with daily. In the past I have bought a higher SP character to compensate for this and this certainly helped but I feel like I gave up my identity to have that.

Having the ability to make the exact same transaction with isk but have those skillpoints go onto ME rather than get a new SOMEONE. Is really apealling for me.

To the people who are complaining that it's buying SP with $$$. Go take a look at the character bazaar. It happens daily but in a shittier, less convenient way.
Sella Lesbon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1193 - 2015-10-16 01:02:08 UTC
E1ev1n wrote:
This devalues character trading. NO. Just NO.

SP trading would be fine but not the reduction of sp because you trade a toon.

Even trading SP sounds bad, how about CCP just seeds up some PLEX and makes it cheaper to train multiple toons by devaluing the PLEX market.



Plexing toons have gone out of hand already

> Never do something to someone that you wouldn't like to be done to yourself.

Zerinia
Lom Corporation
#1194 - 2015-10-16 01:02:12 UTC
CCP has stated they want to remove attributes..... maybe they're gonna turn implants into skill packets. I just bought several hundred plus 1s, well see.
Marech Bhayanaka
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1195 - 2015-10-16 01:02:55 UTC
Querns wrote:

People posting about this (both here and from without) are quick to call this "ISK for SP;" did you all deliberately ignore the part where you have to liquidate an existing pilot's skill points to fuel the skill packets?

Use your isk to keep an extra character or three training. Periodically strip their SP and give it to the characters you actually play. Voila, isk for SP. Or $ for SP if you prefer.

Marech.
Nex Killer
Perkone
Caldari State
#1196 - 2015-10-16 01:07:43 UTC
I love the idea, got a few characters that have things traded that I don't want anymore or need. Would love to take them away a sell the SP or reuse that SP.
Kevin Emoto
No Code of Conduct
Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
#1197 - 2015-10-16 01:07:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Kevin Emoto
So....none of the typical MMO "Witness Protection Plan" account services
- No name changes
- No gender changes
- No employment history wipes

but....this!?!?

Seriously, since the end of 2012, the really bad ideas seem to be pouring out, each getting worse than the last.

Please, stop the madness, fix bugs, stop going to places like facebook, twitch and reddit to get input from trolls and actually listen to your player base here in forums and through our CSM electorate.

A really good idea would be to start hiring people who understand what eve players love about this game when we signed up. You know, things like it's harsh, it's beautiful, it's unique?

Easy buttons and the continued WoW-ification efforts aren't welcome to players who have been here a long time. Sure it brings in game-of-the month people, but they leave within a few months, and just want it easy.


Do you want people who invest their time in eve, or do you just want the constant swirl of short term players? If you keep this kind of game 'design' up, you'll likely have neither in a relatively short time.
Delegate
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1198 - 2015-10-16 01:08:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Delegate
Marech Bhayanaka wrote:
Querns wrote:

People posting about this (both here and from without) are quick to call this "ISK for SP;" did you all deliberately ignore the part where you have to liquidate an existing pilot's skill points to fuel the skill packets?

Use your isk to keep an extra character or three training. Periodically strip their SP and give it to the characters you actually play. Voila, isk for SP. Or $ for SP if you prefer.

Marech.


This point deserve attention.
Currently multiple alt accounts are mainly a means of wealth gathering. Certain activities in EVE still allow you to PLEX several alts. Cap escalations, for example. After this change, those alts are not only an ISK source but a power-leveling machine.

EDIT: 1366 comments on r/Eve/ at this point. Yea, this one certainly isn't going to polarize eve player base...
Indy Rider
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1199 - 2015-10-16 01:13:16 UTC
Delegate wrote:
Marech Bhayanaka wrote:
[quote=Querns]
Periodically strip their SP and give it to the characters you actually play. Voila, isk for SP. Or $ for SP if you prefer.

Marech.


This point deserve attention.


Granted I haven't read the post in great detail, but wouldn't the whole diminishing returns thing make it a dumb idea to continually strip and transfer SP?
FurBurger PotPie
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1200 - 2015-10-16 01:13:39 UTC
Once again a half-a**ed CCP idea. If you are going to allow buying skill points for a character, don't do something ridiculous, go FULL MATRIX. Neo didn't get unallocated skill points, he got a program injected into his head that made him a Kung-Fu master. Do it that way. Want to fly a carrier? Buy a "Basic (race) Carrier Program" with all the skills at minimum prereq levels and the direct skills at level 1. Want to be a carrier God? By the "Master (race) Carrier Pack" with the prereqs still at minimum but the direct skills at level 5. Can't fly in the Corp BLOPS fleet? Buy a "Basic/Intermediate/Master (race) Blops Pack" and you can join the fun that very night.
Knowledge isn't gained by magical points, it's gained by studying/training a SPECIFIC activity. Skill Points are merely a way to assign a time to learn a specific skill at a given level. More difficult skills and higher levels require more studying and training than basic skills and basic knowledge. That is why the skill point requirements exist, to force a character to spend more time learning a more advanced skill or level.
Unallocated skill points are a convenient way for CCP to reimburse characters for CCP's errors. Don't make them a way of life.