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When will the Command Ships get their Love CCP??
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Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#41 - 2015-10-10 09:20:23 UTC
NFain wrote:
101 guide to CS balance:

1) add a mid and a low slot
2) add a 6th hard point to all
3) increase cpu/pg to allow for variations in fits, not one fit that magically make them work decently.
4) give us back the old ship models >:(

But yeah basically they used to be awesome, then they blew, then they got kinda better but with tiericide they're useless in the state they're in.


Well to be honest I wouldn't say they're useless, just lacking (quite a bit). More so when compared next to the HACs.
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#42 - 2015-10-10 10:24:50 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Glathull's point still stands, doesn't it? But then again, you do love to hear yourself type those responses.

He didn't make a point. He expressed an opinion and preference. But yes, it still stands, as does mine.
And I can't hear myself typing my responses as my keyboard is very silent.


Semantics. Your trolling becomes way to obvious.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#43 - 2015-10-10 10:36:44 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
NFain wrote:
101 guide to CS balance:

1) add a mid and a low slot
2) add a 6th hard point to all
3) increase cpu/pg to allow for variations in fits, not one fit that magically make them work decently.
4) give us back the old ship models >:(

But yeah basically they used to be awesome, then they blew, then they got kinda better but with tiericide they're useless in the state they're in.


Well to be honest I wouldn't say they're useless, just lacking (quite a bit). More so when compared next to the HACs.


Command ships are not supposed to be hacs only bigger, they are a fleet support ship.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#44 - 2015-10-10 13:42:19 UTC
Otso Bakarti wrote:


If they protect themselves, one more high to make that a reasonable expectation. The additional mid? I guess if shield tanking. If armor tanking then a low.

Fighting in one of these? I always thought that was a bit odd. CS should be almost purely a support ship, with enough tank and oompf to protect itself should an engagement start to go sideways. The ships it supports should be providing the firepower and protection (to state the obvious). There really are better ships to fight with.

Maybe it's not a good idea to view the requirements of this ship in terms of solo PvP, or using it as a main damage doer. It'd be a shame to lose any of it's support function to such cross purposes. One size fits all usually doesn't fit anybody.


An additional tank spot would be nice if nothing to encourage squad on squad instead of blob combat comes up.

If there was to be a short term change, I would make ganglink bonus have a falloff based on range. This should be no problem, even OGB. Buff mid and low, happy. Expand and focus on the command ship functionality. Heck, I have, for a long while, thought that tactical overlay should be removed from default and reserved for command ships or similar.

Want damage, isnt that what the smaller, and faster HACs are for? More combat out of them just means they are overshadowing another role or just not being used for current role. Want high damage that can take a beating while tackled? Isnt that the role of T1 battleships?

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#45 - 2015-10-10 13:50:40 UTC
Seeing as how a command ship is my mid-term goal after the falcon(like 2 weeks until it's at level 4 so enjoy being able to target things while you still can), I approve this request.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#46 - 2015-10-10 16:00:53 UTC
I was thinking about that new idea for the fleet MJD action. Why not put that into command ships and only give it to fleet positions? IE you need to be in a command position in a fleet and in a command ship to use it. Would bring back the need to keep your commanders alive and give a reason for command ships as a whole to do the "command" sort of thing like their name would allude to.

Just a random thought of the day.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#47 - 2015-10-10 16:24:01 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
I was thinking about that new idea for the fleet MJD action. Why not put that into command ships and only give it to fleet positions? IE you need to be in a command position in a fleet and in a command ship to use it. Would bring back the need to keep your commanders alive and give a reason for command ships as a whole to do the "command" sort of thing like their name would allude to.

Just a random thought of the day.



Okay, as far as good ideas go, that one rates pretty highly for me.

Give command ships the more advanced fleet warps and the like? That would be pretty awesome.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#48 - 2015-10-10 22:57:46 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
I was thinking about that new idea for the fleet MJD action. Why not put that into command ships and only give it to fleet positions? IE you need to be in a command position in a fleet and in a command ship to use it. Would bring back the need to keep your commanders alive and give a reason for command ships as a whole to do the "command" sort of thing like their name would allude to.

Just a random thought of the day.



Okay, as far as good ideas go, that one rates pretty highly for me.

Give command ships the more advanced fleet warps and the like? That would be pretty awesome.


Yeeeesss.

Make them actual Command and Control platforms.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#49 - 2015-10-11 01:16:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
baltec1 wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
NFain wrote:
101 guide to CS balance:

1) add a mid and a low slot
2) add a 6th hard point to all
3) increase cpu/pg to allow for variations in fits, not one fit that magically make them work decently.
4) give us back the old ship models >:(

But yeah basically they used to be awesome, then they blew, then they got kinda better but with tiericide they're useless in the state they're in.


Well to be honest I wouldn't say they're useless, just lacking (quite a bit). More so when compared next to the HACs.


Command ships are not supposed to be hacs only bigger, they are a fleet support ship.


Like I said, this "Fleet Support Role" that CSs are now labeled as, was an error by CCP. They were clearly meant to be combantant T2 BCs 2 years before CCP derped them all together into that boring role. Now the only logical thing for CCP to do would be to either make them both a combantant and fleet support booster or introduce another T2 BC class designed for pure combat. From my speculation, I'm guessing CCP planned on introducing T3 BCs using the same designs from the T3Ds. But harsh feedback from the T3Ds designs have put that on hold. So while the plans for introducing another T2 or T3 BC are at a stalemate, I'd rather them to add necessary improvements on the current T2 BCs. Lets face it, with the T1 BC buff who would pay 6x the price and train 3x as long to fly a CS in their current state?
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#50 - 2015-10-11 01:36:33 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
I was thinking about that new idea for the fleet MJD action. Why not put that into command ships and only give it to fleet positions? IE you need to be in a command position in a fleet and in a command ship to use it. Would bring back the need to keep your commanders alive and give a reason for command ships as a whole to do the "command" sort of thing like their name would allude to.

Just a random thought of the day.



Okay, as far as good ideas go, that one rates pretty highly for me.

Give command ships the more advanced fleet warps and the like? That would be pretty awesome.


Yea that was pretty good, at least their roles would be more definitive. Of course that also means the players can at long last look forward to additional combat focused T2 or T3 BCs in the future.
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#51 - 2015-10-11 08:14:40 UTC
The problem with links is the Command Processor.

Either limit 1 per ship, or else make a low-slot CP available to balance shield/armor tanks on Command Ships.
Limiting the fitting will also reduce the T3C OGB issues.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#52 - 2015-10-11 17:48:39 UTC
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:
The problem with links is the Command Processor.

Either limit 1 per ship, or else make a low-slot CP available to balance shield/armor tanks on Command Ships.
Limiting the fitting will also reduce the T3C OGB issues.



Well... That goes back to the OGB. Most subprocessor fit T3 and command ships are frail and would not last on grid if more than one. However, back in my final days of nullsec, I flew a command archon. Heavy tank and supportt for the logi carriers, etc. Needed the subproc.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Servo Libertas
Rival Sons
#53 - 2015-10-11 18:35:28 UTC
I like my eos, but even with the bonus to heavies they still die fairly quickly. The tracking speed for medium turrets is in flavor with most Gallente ships, but in this case I'd rather have something like +7.5% or 10% hit points for heavy drones on top of the +10% it already has for all drones. It could use a slight boost to drone bay capacity, but it is not in dire need of it. Another option, though probably way over the top, would be to have something like "-7.5% heavy drone signature resolution per level".
NFain
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2015-10-15 06:12:53 UTC
bumping for the love this desperately needs Pirate
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#55 - 2015-10-15 10:33:46 UTC
The only alliance I have ever heard of who implemented a Command Ship fleet was Pandemic Legion and while they only tested it by tormenting Provi ratters they did make a vulture fleet. From what I put together it wasn't something you want to butt heads with. If you had enough of them on the screen that they didn't stick out like a sore thumb, they would be formidable. You would need a super rich and super bored alliance to see it happen though.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#56 - 2015-10-15 11:05:51 UTC
Ioci wrote:
The only alliance I have ever heard of who implemented a Command Ship fleet was Pandemic Legion and while they only tested it by tormenting Provi ratters they did make a vulture fleet. From what I put together it wasn't something you want to butt heads with. If you had enough of them on the screen that they didn't stick out like a sore thumb, they would be formidable. You would need a super rich and super bored alliance to see it happen though.


Almost any ship in eve when formed in a mass fleet with a competent FC would be formidable. That doesn't mean the ship when used solo would be just as formidable. Command ships used to be very powerful solo combatant ships, but that's no longer the case since other classes received substantial buffs while the CSs remained statistically untouched for the past 3-4 years.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#57 - 2015-10-15 11:06:57 UTC
Ioci wrote:
The only alliance I have ever heard of who implemented a Command Ship fleet was Pandemic Legion and while they only tested it by tormenting Provi ratters they did make a vulture fleet. From what I put together it wasn't something you want to butt heads with. If you had enough of them on the screen that they didn't stick out like a sore thumb, they would be formidable. You would need a super rich and super bored alliance to see it happen though.

Someone in lowsec had an Absolution fleet I believe also. But again it was one of the powerhouse corp/alliances in Lowsec.
And no-one else picked it up.
It was good, but I'm not sure it was actually better than other options, just cool and different and still effective.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#58 - 2015-10-15 11:24:45 UTC
seen a couple of absolution doctrines, one of my old corps had absolution fleet and so either shadow cartel or snuffbox

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#59 - 2015-10-15 11:32:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Lan Wang wrote:
seen a couple of absolution doctrines, one of my old corps had absolution fleet and so either shadow cartel or snuffbox


I believe they both used them. They were just tinkering about trying to do something different and unique. If they wanted to, they could've use the Zealot, Sacrilege or Damnation in the same fashion, but choose the Abso. Why? Because nobody hardly uses them in fleets. So yea they're gonna appear to be good due to unfamiliarity.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#60 - 2015-10-15 11:47:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Command ships are not supposed to be hacs only bigger, they are a fleet support ship.

Given how they're actually designed I'm not sure what CCP actually thought they were supposed to be.

Field command ships are clearly intended to be HACs but bigger to a point where it's questionable as to why they even have gang link bonuses as at all. Fleet command ships however are clearly intended to serve as support ships by providing bonuses and not much else.

There's clearly a demand for both of these functions. People want T2 combat oriented battlecruisers and people want their fleet bonus ships. However for some reason at this point these distinctly different roles are lumped onto the same class of ship.