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Capsuleers and death?

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solrac lara
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-10-10 19:09:42 UTC
I just bought the empyrean age and templar one and i loved them so far but something generated intrigue on me after reading the empyrean age and part of templar one and is the death of a capsuleer?

I mean whats a capsuleer clone is the real capsuleer or just a really good copy ?

There is something like a soul on eve? i mean in the empyrean age is implied that its not and clones are just that clones really good copies of the original self even a clone falek become someone totally different after his clonning process went wrong but then you have those templar one quotes.

Quote:
What Vince didn’t know was that his physical body had long since been removed from its holding area in ICP 89. While his mind walked on the virtual beach, his body was already being accosted by medical drones, which pierced


And this

Quote:
What Vince didn’t know was that his physical body had long since been removed from its holding area in ICP 89. While his mind walked on the virtual beach, his body was already being accosted by medical drones, which pierced that struck the greatest fear he had ever known into his soul. He screamed – and then realized he was upright. Breathing hard, he looked around frantically, then reached toward his abdomen.


Sounds like his mind or soul or whatever its being transfered instead of being "copypasted" so there is something close to a soul on new eden does clone have souls are they the same individual ? when my character suicided to arrive to null sec faster he died forever and im just playing with a really well made copy of him?

Vollhov
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2015-10-10 19:39:26 UTC
Good books.
Such ССP never to will write the. They can only to erase all.
Yes, Tony is a topic about the soul.
What kind the characters. The present science fiction.

There any more sense not in the souls and consciousness. Which are entwined in one body. All taki clone technology "Sleeper" + Tech 'capsuleer " played a cruel joke.

End of Time. I'm not fanatic, I'm just a servant by Her Majesty the Empress Jamyl Sarum I. It's time to leave this world to me. YC111 to YC117.12.10 20:00
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#3 - 2015-10-11 00:03:29 UTC
As worded in the intro and source, our mind/consciousness/you/me transfers into a new body. So the body itself is "a really good copy". However our mind transfers. The many lore articles go into a very technical explanation as to how the capsule scans our brain in the split second our bodies die and sends it to a clone on standby.

It's a brilliant fictional explanation for how we as players continue to play the same and thus feel familiar with everything we've learned so far. :)

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind
Matar Ronin
#4 - 2015-10-11 22:50:18 UTC
Where would the soul reside if not in the mind of a human? If we are just a really good copy as a capsuleer than does that mean only 1% or more of our "real" soul expired when we died to become a capsuleer? I think it fair to assume the soul travels with the mind and we leap from one clone to the next as an intact soul.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2015-10-13 02:03:46 UTC
Whether the soul actually makes the transfer is never really answered.

Hell, the Amarr argued that capsuleers have no soul.

The existence of souls and whether they follow the consciousness into the new body is something that's debated even in-universe.

Just as how, IRL, we still haven't come up with a clear-cut definition of a soul and are still inconclusive about where consciousness comes from. We also still debate alot about matters of spirituality.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#6 - 2015-10-13 06:43:43 UTC
This has become so philosophical that the resolution of the question would have no effect on IC development.

However, I would venture to guess that the most reasonable interpretation of the Eve Universe with the fiction as we presently know it is that there is no soul. Like the RL materialistic interpretation of consciousness (that, as mysterious as it is, it is the manifestation of physical activity in our brains) I think the Eve consciousness is also dependent on the piece of hardware it is presently running on. Consciousness is not transmitted to the brain anymore than a fax machine actually transports a piece of paper. A perfect transfer of the individual states of each neuron at the moment of death is an impressive feat of the illusion of continuity of consciousness but results in just an excellent copy of the self and not an unbroken continuation. Every clone is a new person.

Now, all that can be true and characters (especially those that have any belief in a supernatural realm) can still carry on life as if it's not. At any given moment the world would never feel or seem any different to a copy than if there were some magical "soul transfer" machine in place of the TNBS.

"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-10-13 13:49:12 UTC
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon wrote:
This has become so philosophical that the resolution of the question would have no effect on IC development.

However, I would venture to guess that the most reasonable interpretation of the Eve Universe with the fiction as we presently know it is that there is no soul. Like the RL materialistic interpretation of consciousness (that, as mysterious as it is, it is the manifestation of physical activity in our brains) I think the Eve consciousness is also dependent on the piece of hardware it is presently running on. Consciousness is not transmitted to the brain anymore than a fax machine actually transports a piece of paper. A perfect transfer of the individual states of each neuron at the moment of death is an impressive feat of the illusion of continuity of consciousness but results in just an excellent copy of the self and not an unbroken continuation. Every clone is a new person.

Now, all that can be true and characters (especially those that have any belief in a supernatural realm) can still carry on life as if it's not. At any given moment the world would never feel or seem any different to a copy than if there were some magical "soul transfer" machine in place of the TNBS.


For a demonstration on his points about the discussion of 'souls' in-game, take a look at the Intaki beliefs in cloning, contrast with Amarr.

It's pretty murky detail. Though it's an interesting topic to debate about all day long, practicality-wise it's not really relevant. You die, your brain state is transferred to the clone, the clone wakes up inheriting all the data that's in your head plus assets and carries on your will. Doesn't matter if the clone is really the same person as the previous clone or is an identical copy acting as the previous' heir.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#8 - 2015-10-13 17:20:38 UTC
I'm proposing (going out on a limb really) and saying that I think Eve has no souls. I mean, obviously, there are IC faiths that feature souls and spirits but I think the absolute truth of the Eve Universe is that they are made up and that it is intrinsically materialistic. Again, and the agreement around the table on this is obvious, this would not matter one jot ICly as no character has access to the ultimate truth of the Eve Universe anymore than we have access to the ultimate truth of the real universe.

"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#9 - 2015-10-13 19:03:53 UTC
Philosophically, I encountered two viewpoints:

1. All capsuleer-clones are different people with different souls, immortality is just a cruel joke.

2. A soul is shared around the different clones, they're still the same person. But: Sometimes **** happens. Immortality is just a cruel joke, after all.