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Crime & Punishment

 
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Hyperdunking nerf on sisi, to the battlements!

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Paranoid Loyd
#181 - 2015-10-12 21:26:08 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

Emphasis on the word REAL...

Just because you can't think of it, doesn't mean it's not real.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#182 - 2015-10-13 00:11:41 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Gank the bumping mach...


Sounds easy when you say it as a throw away line, doing it is however not an easy matter, a fast moving Macherial set up for bumping is not an easy target, its not at all like a freighter..

Tell you what I'll do it some time in a few weeks for you and just pay my way outta the kr if it goes public


I went out to gank two Macherials, KR's would not have bothered me, the first warped away when I scanned him and came back with a better tank and I could not get another person to help me to get enough DPS, so did not follow through on it, the second attempt was alongside Jennifer en Marland, but as we were also trying to drive them off to save the freighter it was rather difficult as they made it too difficult to get on them and we needed 3 Talos to do it as they had fitted a tank so needed to be perfect.

Of course the way to do it was to wait until the gank fleet is incoming, because most of the time the Macherial sits still next to the freighter, at least they did that while I was involved in AG activities, but that is going just for the kill rather than trying to save the freighter, which was our primary aim. They have such deep pockets that a Macherial loss bothers them not at all..., though some did cry when Jenn got them!

But do it will be fun...

Gank the mach while the fleet is inbound. It will pull concord if nothing else. Also never expect it to go well without putting in the same effort your opponents are

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#183 - 2015-10-13 00:49:40 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Also never expect it to go well without putting in the same effort your opponents are


This is the part where Dracvlad's brain short circuits.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#184 - 2015-10-13 01:11:37 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Mag's wrote:
But that still doesn't exclude the other options open, such as avoiding systems and the time of your move.


So choosing choke point systems like Uedama and Niarja negate that argument, who would have thunk that...


There are plenty of quiet lowsec routes that bypass those systems, and that a freighter with a scout will safely pass through.

Plus there's other options to consider. I have moved over a quarter trillion worth of goods in the last year without loss, via courier contracts, at absolutely no risk to myself and at very low cost (probably paid about 2 billion total, after accounting for the modest profits from the two failed contracts).


There is no low sec route around Niarja, and if you think moving a freighter through the two low sec systems near Sivala with 431 jumps in the last 24 hours is quiet then you are off your rocker.

Courier contracts is of course one way, but DST's are currently a good bet if properly fitted and piloted.


When I'm at war with Marmites and I need to move stuff from Jita to Dodixie, I go Jita - Perimeter - Iyen-Ouster - (can't remember) - Olletiers (0.4) - direct route to Dodi.

I don't go within 4j of Uedama there.

Olletiers does often have 4-10 people in local, but a quick scout of the in-game tells me whether to go in, or to wait, or to send in a suicide decoy alt. Were I piloting a freighter I'd also add a web character (either an alt or a trusted ally).

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#185 - 2015-10-13 01:16:48 UTC
Nighthawk The Assassin wrote:
Why should PvE players adapt to your version of eve?
It's not their version, it's the reality.

Quote:
Why can't you just go PvP in dangerous areas? Why can't you just fight in low/null/wh's?
They do, one of those dangerous areas is called hisec. Hisec is just as much a PvP area as low/null and wh's.

Quote:
Why do you have to war deck PvE players?
Why wouldn't they? PvE players are often unknowingly involved in activities that are PvP in nature.

Quote:
Or will you spout "Risk Vs Reward" rubbish as a shield?

Every time you are challenged by PvE players it's the same excuse.

"It's A Sandbox" "Risk Vs Reward" "Nerf PvE"

But when it's turned back on you, omg thread nought, all of you spamming a forum thread, crying like little girls because CCP changed summit you don't like.
PvE players for the most part do not challenge PvP players, they demand that CCP do it for them.

Quote:
It's pathetic, you, the griefers, are the reason EvE doesn't grow, end of story, period, no arguments.
Yeah.... no

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#186 - 2015-10-13 04:31:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Leto Thule
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:

Especially not the way freighters are dieing nowdays (atk, empty ones).


Why is killing empty freighters a problem? Or atk? Any undocked ship is a valid target. Why would I bother killing an empty freighter?

Profit isnt always an immediate recap. If I know an industrialist who builds these, he sells more of them if I kill more of them. Maybe he pays me a kickback for each one I kill. Therefore it does not matter if the target is empty or not when the objective is to reduce the number of freighters overall.

Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:

Same goes for DST looting, it might not be the most used mechanic but in its core it is absolutely against everything EVE is about when talking about risk and reward. It's sad to see all the HTFU crowd being so vocal to miners/indy pilots about need to accept risks while at the same time so defensive against removal/rework of this, clearly broken, mechanic. Yes it can be countered by looting before the DST, popping the wreck etc, however the fact remains - ability to loot using DST when only the disposable alt who transfers the loot goes suspect is counter-intuitive and broken.


Agreed. The risk should swing both ways.

Shitehawk The Assgoblin wrote:

Why should PvE players adapt to your version of eve?


There is no such thing as a PVE player. All aspects of EVE are PVP, even station trading.

Shitehawk The Assgoblin wrote:
Why do you have to war dec PvE players?


This one gets my goat. I was decced by a teir 1 merc corp in my carebear days. If they hadnt curb stomped me into learning how to defend myself, I would have quit from boredom by now, never meeting all the great friends I have made during my years playing EVE... even taking a trip to Iceland for fanfest with a few. I wont bother answering the rest of your list... others have already done it... save this last one...

Shitehawk The Assgoblin wrote:
"Nerf PvE"


PvE is a requirement for the game. Nobody here has suggested nerfs to it (aside from maybe the ridiculous economy breaking highsec incursions). The problem isnt PVE. The problem is the expectation of risk free ISK printing and zero costs associated with it. Most people on the opposite side of the discussion from you perform at least some form of PVE... from farm holes to PI to industry.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Faylee Freir
Abusing Game Mechanics
#187 - 2015-10-13 05:38:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Faylee Freir
Quote:
PvE is a requirement for the game. Nobody here has suggested nerfs to it (aside from maybe the ridiculous economy breaking highsec incursions). The problem isnt PVE. The problem is the expectation of risk free ISK printing and zero costs associated with it. Most people on the opposite side of the discussion from you perform at least some form of PVE... from farm holes to PI to industry.


This is very true. I've ended up with a lot of stuff through freighter ganking. I am sitting on more liquid than I've ever had, so when I get something like 20 rattlesnake bpcs, some capital BPOs, and a load of minerals; why not do something more interesting with them than dump to buy orders?

HTFU
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#188 - 2015-10-13 05:52:01 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Mag's wrote:
But that still doesn't exclude the other options open, such as avoiding systems and the time of your move.


So choosing choke point systems like Uedama and Niarja negate that argument, who would have thunk that...


There are plenty of quiet lowsec routes that bypass those systems, and that a freighter with a scout will safely pass through.

Plus there's other options to consider. I have moved over a quarter trillion worth of goods in the last year without loss, via courier contracts, at absolutely no risk to myself and at very low cost (probably paid about 2 billion total, after accounting for the modest profits from the two failed contracts).


There is no low sec route around Niarja, and if you think moving a freighter through the two low sec systems near Sivala with 431 jumps in the last 24 hours is quiet then you are off your rocker.

Courier contracts is of course one way, but DST's are currently a good bet if properly fitted and piloted.


When I'm at war with Marmites and I need to move stuff from Jita to Dodixie, I go Jita - Perimeter - Iyen-Ouster - (can't remember) - Olletiers (0.4) - direct route to Dodi.

I don't go within 4j of Uedama there.

Olletiers does often have 4-10 people in local, but a quick scout of the in-game tells me whether to go in, or to wait, or to send in a suicide decoy alt. Were I piloting a freighter I'd also add a web character (either an alt or a trusted ally).


Don't forget that the comment was about solo players, not people who have multiple accounts, using a low sec system is not a real option for them, yes you could do it, yes I could do it, but casual players nope. In any case I have webbed my freighters through the choke points because I have more than one account.

So emphasis on the real and go back to the comment that this game forces you to have multiple accounts or to have very helpful friends...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#189 - 2015-10-13 05:55:18 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Gank the bumping mach...


Sounds easy when you say it as a throw away line, doing it is however not an easy matter, a fast moving Macherial set up for bumping is not an easy target, its not at all like a freighter..

Tell you what I'll do it some time in a few weeks for you and just pay my way outta the kr if it goes public


I went out to gank two Macherials, KR's would not have bothered me, the first warped away when I scanned him and came back with a better tank and I could not get another person to help me to get enough DPS, so did not follow through on it, the second attempt was alongside Jennifer en Marland, but as we were also trying to drive them off to save the freighter it was rather difficult as they made it too difficult to get on them and we needed 3 Talos to do it as they had fitted a tank so needed to be perfect.

Of course the way to do it was to wait until the gank fleet is incoming, because most of the time the Macherial sits still next to the freighter, at least they did that while I was involved in AG activities, but that is going just for the kill rather than trying to save the freighter, which was our primary aim. They have such deep pockets that a Macherial loss bothers them not at all..., though some did cry when Jenn got them!

But do it will be fun...

Gank the mach while the fleet is inbound. It will pull concord if nothing else. Also never expect it to go well without putting in the same effort your opponents are


As I said it was the time to do it, but the objective is what, save the freighter and gank the Macherial or just gank the Macherial, some of the AG people put a lot more effort in then you ever give them credit for, Rhamnousia Nosferatu is one who was top of the list in both effort and effect and has my utter respect.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Faylee Freir
Abusing Game Mechanics
#190 - 2015-10-13 07:17:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Faylee Freir
Rham does a better job white knighting my dunks than stopping freighter ganks... Obviously because regular freighter ganks still happen. This just shows you how wrong this change is. To be honest Rham isn't doing anything that anyone with half a brain couldn't do. Popping wrecks and showing up with logi is good and all (and a lot more effective than everyone else acting as a crow) but if there were to be someone that understood ganking mechanics better and how to use them against a gank, you would see a lot more tears.

I have a very short list of people that I don't want to **** off ever, and most everyone else is just a nullsec F1 monkey jump cloning down for some elite F1 freighter ganking action. If Rham is who you consider to be the hero of Anti-Ganking, then your collective of bads is in poor shape.

HTFU
Faylee Freir
Abusing Game Mechanics
#191 - 2015-10-13 07:40:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Faylee Freir
Don't wk me Rham, you're #1!

HTFU
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#192 - 2015-10-13 11:49:17 UTC
Faylee Freir wrote:
Don't wk me Rham, you're #1!


200!

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#193 - 2015-10-13 15:19:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Faylee Freir wrote:
Don't wk me Rham, you're #1!


Lol, I never understood what that "whiteknighting" you're refering to means :).

As for me being No1 or the 'hero' of AG, not sure why I'd be one. I'm not in the fabled 'AG High command', not a mod, not even the most active in anti-ganking, just a regular guy with too much spare isk, 3 accounts and locator agents at disposal. As you said, having a repper and/or wreck popping alt isn't really the pinnacle of immaginative gameplay.

As for solo stopping freighter ganks, appart form countering bumping (which sometimes works but more usually does not) I honestly have no ideas what could one guy do to cause 'tears' you speak of, at least if he/she wants to be able to remain opertional in hisec (i.e. avoid providing killrights to gankers). Fitting a mach bumper could be a thing but those are easy to kill and I'm trying not to provide nice killmails to you guys.

In the end, as you well know, I'm not even bothered by freighter ganking, only by few mechanics I see as being quite broken and silly and behaviour of some folks which goes way beyond taunting and/or tear collecting just for innocent lols.
While I accept the possibility that I'm completely blinded by my "hatered of everything CODE/Goon" (because grr them) and missing something really important, I'll keep advocating enforcement of game rules and fixes to looting and bumping (capitals in hisec). If they (ever) actually happen, I'll probably go back to ganking or do something completely new (maybe go and mine :)).
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#194 - 2015-10-13 17:54:42 UTC
sup.

yeah, wreck it. hyperdunking has to go.
Faylee Freir
Abusing Game Mechanics
#195 - 2015-10-13 22:20:39 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
sup.

yeah, wreck it. hyperdunking has to go.

Yeah! Lets get rid of mining, missions, ratting, and production! See I can be just as ignorant as you.

HTFU
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#196 - 2015-10-13 23:31:03 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

When I'm at war with Marmites and I need to move stuff from Jita to Dodixie, I go Jita - Perimeter - Iyen-Ouster - (can't remember) - Olletiers (0.4) - direct route to Dodi.

I don't go within 4j of Uedama there.

Olletiers does often have 4-10 people in local, but a quick scout of the in-game tells me whether to go in, or to wait, or to send in a suicide decoy alt. Were I piloting a freighter I'd also add a web character (either an alt or a trusted ally).


Don't forget that the comment was about solo players, not people who have multiple accounts, using a low sec system is not a real option for them, yes you could do it, yes I could do it, but casual players nope. In any case I have webbed my freighters through the choke points because I have more than one account.

So emphasis on the real and go back to the comment that this game forces you to have multiple accounts or to have very helpful friends...


That's fine; don't fly a freighter.

Freighters are not solo ships. Never have been, never will be.

If you rat truly solo (no alts, no trusted allies) in an Archon, you are an idiot. It you fly a Charon true solo, you are also an idiot. If your goal is to donate to CODE. and/or Miniluv, there are cheaper ways to do it than flying a freighter true solo.

If true solo is your playstyle, Deep Space Transports and Blockade Runners are the ships you should be flying.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Faylee Freir
Abusing Game Mechanics
#197 - 2015-10-14 00:13:17 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

When I'm at war with Marmites and I need to move stuff from Jita to Dodixie, I go Jita - Perimeter - Iyen-Ouster - (can't remember) - Olletiers (0.4) - direct route to Dodi.

I don't go within 4j of Uedama there.

Olletiers does often have 4-10 people in local, but a quick scout of the in-game tells me whether to go in, or to wait, or to send in a suicide decoy alt. Were I piloting a freighter I'd also add a web character (either an alt or a trusted ally).


Don't forget that the comment was about solo players, not people who have multiple accounts, using a low sec system is not a real option for them, yes you could do it, yes I could do it, but casual players nope. In any case I have webbed my freighters through the choke points because I have more than one account.

So emphasis on the real and go back to the comment that this game forces you to have multiple accounts or to have very helpful friends...


That's fine; don't fly a freighter.

Freighters are not solo ships. Never have been, never will be.

If you rat truly solo (no alts, no trusted allies) in an Archon, you are an idiot. It you fly a Charon true solo, you are also an idiot. If your goal is to donate to CODE. and/or Miniluv, there are cheaper ways to do it than flying a freighter true solo.

If true solo is your playstyle, Deep Space Transports and Blockade Runners are the ships you should be flying.

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooah!

Tell me you're seriously not implying that anyone should be able to do anything and everything they want the way they want it without consequence? The only thing I see is a bunch of adults wearing incontinent diapers while begging for their mother to coddle them. The sooner these bears realize that EVE has ALWAYS been EVE and you aren't entitled to ****, the better off you'll be.

HTFU
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#198 - 2015-10-14 00:31:47 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:


Freighters are not solo ships. Never have been, never will be.

If you rat truly solo (no alts, no trusted allies) in an Archon, you are an idiot. It you fly a Charon true solo, you are also an idiot. If your goal is to donate to CODE. and/or Miniluv, there are cheaper ways to do it than flying a freighter true solo.

If true solo is your playstyle, Deep Space Transports and Blockade Runners are the ships you should be flying.


So glad I got the jumbo bucket of popcorn for this one.
Sabriz just nailed it with this bit right here.
They're cap ships, meant to be flown with support.
If you can't muster a buddy or three to provide said support you're taking a pretty big gamble undocking such an attractive target.
There are some activities in EVE that require cooperative effort to accomplish, safely flying a freighter is one of them.

Also, folks are being way too liberal with their use of the word 'griefer' around here. Just judging from what I've read so far I'm to understand that pretty much anyone who is a ganker, a merc, or mission flipper is a griefer. In other words, anyone who is not an honorable space samurai who spends their time valiantly dueling 1v1 in low or nullsec.... or one of lowing masses of bewilderbeasts nomming peacefully on rocks or pewing npcs.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#199 - 2015-10-14 00:44:32 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

If true solo is your playstyle, Deep Space Transports and Blockade Runners are the ships you should be flying.


Bingo.

No player has the right to fly a ship deliberately wrong and expect to live.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Faylee Freir
Abusing Game Mechanics
#200 - 2015-10-14 02:03:28 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

If true solo is your playstyle, Deep Space Transports and Blockade Runners are the ships you should be flying.


Bingo.

No player has the right to fly a ship deliberately wrong and expect to live.

Give me a break... we're killing eve man.

HTFU