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PIE and the 24th Imperial Crusade Threaten The Disciples of Ston
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Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#101 - 2012-01-05 15:55:53 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
You're the one who claimed that the only options in these situations are war and shutting up.
No, I have not. Nor has Electus Matari. You should also read my post just above yours before making more silly claims.

Now stop derailing this thread.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#102 - 2012-01-05 15:57:46 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Arkady Sadik wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
It may be EM's policy to declare war on people without substantiating allegations
If you have actual evidence of such, please provide it to us so we can act on it (in a different thread, or in private, up to you). Repeated slander in public to try and detract from your own case is not particularly professional, Admiral.

Arkady Sadik
Head Diplomat
Electus Matari



You're the one who claimed that the only options in these situations are war and shutting up.

And since your alliance has been known to declare war...


With respect Admiral Blake, that was Anabella not Arkady who made such a claim. If you're "you're" is aimed at Gradient or even Electus Matari as a whole then I'd go with the words of their Head Diplomat over someone who is occasionally an "speak first, think later about it" loudmouth.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Manwe Todako
Disciples of Ston
#103 - 2012-01-05 16:01:50 UTC
Very shortly after the above response, I received a communication from Ms. Goldcore. Below is my reponse to that communication together with the original beneath.

Dear Ms. Goldcore,

While I have already responded to your latest statement of demand and received this communication only afterwards, I have submitted it to the Council of Elders for our consideration.

In response, they have requested that I not risk a direct face to face meeting with you at this time. Having seen your communications in full, they feel that the risk is too great. I will honor their request.

However, they have agreed that it is acceptable that Ston could meet with you as a representative of the Disciples of Ston in this matter.

This response together with your communication shall be public record.

Sankofa

Meeting
From: Thgil Goldcore
Sent: 2012.01.05 08:36
To: Manwe Todako,

Before you decide on wether to submit or reject the investigation, I would very much like to talk to you face to face. You know well this issue is being blown way out of proportion.

I shall prepare you a clone at my bar over hayumtom. Perhaps after a short meeting you may act out of understanding rather than ignorance. I am sure that your friend Ston would agree, its better to think something out and act appropraitely rather than act quickly and stupidly. You know as they say... haste makes waste.

Thgil Goldcore
Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

SANKOFA
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#104 - 2012-01-05 16:06:28 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Arkady Sadik wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
It may be EM's policy to declare war on people without substantiating allegations
If you have actual evidence of such, please provide it to us so we can act on it (in a different thread, or in private, up to you). Repeated slander in public to try and detract from your own case is not particularly professional, Admiral.

Arkady Sadik
Head Diplomat
Electus Matari



You're the one who claimed that the only options in these situations are war and shutting up.

And since your alliance has been known to declare war...


With respect Admiral Blake, that was Anabella not Arkady who made such a claim. If you're "you're" is aimed at Gradient or even Electus Matari as a whole then I'd go with the words of their Head Diplomat over someone who is occasionally an "speak first, think later about it" loudmouth.



Ah yes, you are correct. One Shakorite mouthpiece sounds much like all the rest these days, so that may explain it.

However, as you say, it was an EM member who made the original comment, so I think that the sentiment of my remark is still valid, and hardly slanderous in that context.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#105 - 2012-01-05 16:15:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Caellach Marellus
Rodj Blake wrote:

Ah yes, you are correct. One Shakorite mouthpiece sounds much like all the rest these days, so that may explain it.


I'd considered making a bad taste joke about how you might struggle from telling one apart from the other... had I known there'd be actual truth to it I might have not refrained for concerns of slander.

Quote:
However, as you say, it was an EM member who made the original comment, so I think that the sentiment of my remark is still valid, and hardly slanderous in that context.


As I said before, I'd go with the stance set by their Head Diplomat over a member who.. see above for apt description.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#106 - 2012-01-05 16:22:41 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:


As I said before, I'd go with the stance set by their Head Diplomat over a member who.. see above for apt description.


I imagine that the head diplomat will be giving his foolish underling a bit of a tongue-lashing in private.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#107 - 2012-01-05 17:33:31 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:


As I said before, I'd go with the stance set by their Head Diplomat over a member who.. see above for apt description.


I imagine that the head diplomat will be giving his foolish underling a bit of a tongue-lashing in private.


Again (and bringing this somewhat on topic) Your responses in this whole discussion have me surprised. I would have thought for one of your subordinates to jump off on their own accord while using the PIE name and engage in one of the worst examples of first contact diplomacy that I can recall in recent times, that you'd have simply replied to this the same way you did when one of your members badmouthed a former Emperor.

A public backing to the hilt as opposed to dealing with this with the quiet dignity I've come to respect of your organisation is most out of character.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#108 - 2012-01-05 18:02:29 UTC
Though I do see the point in vigilantes wanted to be certain that their own resources aren't used against them inside their own territory, I still don't see the need to secrecy or threatening action over the publicity. Very suspicious.
Conventia Underking
Underking Family
Khimi Harar
#109 - 2012-01-05 18:03:40 UTC
Perhaps I'll attempt to help with a view of how well this could have turned out:

1. PIE requests an inspection and offers the Disciples a public statement of compliance with Amarrian laws if found to be such.

2. The Desciples agree, since they have little reason not to. They weren't threatened or bullied and PIE is (or was) viewed as a trustworthy organization.

3. The inspections occur without incident.

4. A PIE Admiral makes the announcement as planned.

5. Everyone sees two organizations working for the betterment of the Empire and the slave population. Multiple Emperors have supported the good handling of slaves, so this would hardly be a stain on PIE's reputation.

That outcome would've been a win-win situation as the Disciples would be seen as being in compliance by other Amarrian corporations and PIE would be seen as diplomats and supporters of their own laws while helping other organizations.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but hopefully next time, something like that could be considered?

For God; Salvation is Imperative, but not at the cost of our Humanity!

The Vitoc Problem - Conventia Underking
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#110 - 2012-01-05 18:14:08 UTC
I am struck by the absolute hypocrisy I am seeing out of Amarrian Loyalist capsuleers over the last couple of days, and I have never been so glad to have seen the light and left that organization. You really want to try telling EM to dress down their overzealous voices after this, Admiral Blake?
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#111 - 2012-01-05 18:17:48 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:


As I said before, I'd go with the stance set by their Head Diplomat over a member who.. see above for apt description.


I imagine that the head diplomat will be giving his foolish underling a bit of a tongue-lashing in private.


Again (and bringing this somewhat on topic) Your responses in this whole discussion have me surprised. I would have thought for one of your subordinates to jump off on their own accord while using the PIE name and engage in one of the worst examples of first contact diplomacy that I can recall in recent times.


You're assuming that this was done without the knowledge of the PIE directorate.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#112 - 2012-01-05 18:20:29 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:


As I said before, I'd go with the stance set by their Head Diplomat over a member who.. see above for apt description.


I imagine that the head diplomat will be giving his foolish underling a bit of a tongue-lashing in private.


Again (and bringing this somewhat on topic) Your responses in this whole discussion have me surprised. I would have thought for one of your subordinates to jump off on their own accord while using the PIE name and engage in one of the worst examples of first contact diplomacy that I can recall in recent times.


You're assuming that this was done without the knowledge of the PIE directorate.


Point. Still the merits for requesting an investigation are not really questionable, infact I'd go as far as to say the concerns are completely within reason.

I still am surprised at your public support of Captain Goldcore, as opposed to a quiet inhouse dealing with her lack of complete failure in handling diplomacy. It still seems somewhat uncharacteristic.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#113 - 2012-01-05 18:30:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Manwe Todako wrote:
Very shortly after the above response, I received a communication from Ms. Goldcore. Below is my reponse to that communication together with the original beneath.

Dear Ms. Goldcore,

While I have already responded to your latest statement of demand and received this communication only afterwards, I have submitted it to the Council of Elders for our consideration.

In response, they have requested that I not risk a direct face to face meeting with you at this time. Having seen your communications in full, they feel that the risk is too great. I will honor their request.

However, they have agreed that it is acceptable that Ston could meet with you as a representative of the Disciples of Ston in this matter.

This response together with your communication shall be public record.

Sankofa

Meeting
From: Thgil Goldcore
Sent: 2012.01.05 08:36
To: Manwe Todako,

Before you decide on wether to submit or reject the investigation, I would very much like to talk to you face to face. You know well this issue is being blown way out of proportion.

I shall prepare you a clone at my bar over hayumtom. Perhaps after a short meeting you may act out of understanding rather than ignorance. I am sure that your friend Ston would agree, its better to think something out and act appropraitely rather than act quickly and stupidly. You know as they say... haste makes waste.

Thgil Goldcore
Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade


I'm not sure why you consider the risk to be too great, as your corporation is not currently on PIE's KOS list.

And I'm also not sure why you again insist on responding to a private communication in public.

I would also appreciate it if you were to answer my earlier question.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#114 - 2012-01-05 18:54:42 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
And I'm also not sure why you again insist on responding to a private communication in public.


I think you are failing to accept that now this matter has been so heavily publicized, and now that so many judgmental eyes are watching, that the only way for PIE to save face is to embrace this fact and change your tone in a way that would make you look like the protagonist you're trying to be.

All I see here is a carpet and a sheepish looking Amarrian trying to sweep something beneath it.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#115 - 2012-01-05 19:05:23 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:


All I see here is a carpet and a sheepish looking Amarrian trying to sweep something beneath it.


The "help" usually takes care of the housecleaning, not us. Cool

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#116 - 2012-01-05 19:44:57 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Aphoxema G wrote:


All I see here is a carpet and a sheepish looking Amarrian trying to sweep something beneath it.


The "help" usually takes care of the housecleaning, not us. Cool



Either you've no sense of pride or you trust very highly the people you have touch your property. I hope it's the sooner, because you're an idiot to trust a slave to never stab you in the back. If I have my way, the people who wash your dishes will soon be employing those skills to was your blood from a knife.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#117 - 2012-01-05 19:46:08 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Aphoxema G wrote:


All I see here is a carpet and a sheepish looking Amarrian trying to sweep something beneath it.


The "help" usually takes care of the housecleaning, not us. Cool



Either you've no sense of pride or you trust very highly the people you have touch your property. I hope it's the sooner, because you're an idiot to trust a slave to never stab you in the back. If I have my way, the people who wash your dishes will soon be employing those skills to was your blood from a knife.



I suspect that you'll switch sides again long before that happens.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#118 - 2012-01-05 19:56:15 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
I suspect that you'll switch sides again long before that happens.


I hate to apologize, especially for myself, but my joining Aegis Militia was in the hopes that the Amarr would have something to personally offer me, something that could improve me as a person. I had hoped the Empire could enlighten me and teach me to be a strong and reliable person with a true purpose in her life.

Turns out it's just a lot of pricks herding humans and justifying it with self-aggrandization in a hauty veil of fake humility.

Truthfully though, Master Blake, I'm fond of you. You're such a bold man with strong conviction and are really quite adorable. That's why I'll preserve your head to use as target practice.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#119 - 2012-01-05 20:18:17 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Welcome to the world of Capsuleers, where those with no legal power attempt to wield it anyways.



Or, instead of all this wasted GalNet bandwidth, we just understand and remember...^^this^^

Goldie, honey, you should like...get over yourself, OK?

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#120 - 2012-01-05 20:27:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
Thgil Goldcore wrote:


[...]

If this investigation where to turn up illegal support for military entities, then should it not be treated as such? The outrage I get as if what I am doing is somehow bullying or attacking a humanitarian group... This is not the case. With outspoken connections to groups violently opposing the Empire, there is plenty reason to investigate.

PS.

If my rank of divine commodore doesn't give me the right to conduct a minor investigation under the name of the 24th, then my golden badge is worth nothing.


Ex-squeeze me? Baking-powder?

What legitimate, supra-national authority gives you the right to conduct any investigation, of anything, on anyone that isn't directly owned or controlled by your corporation, or members thereof, and not least of all any entity outside your nation's sovereign space?

Vis-a-vis capsuleer entities, as far as I know, that's the aegis of the DED exclusively, not some two-bit militia-thugs.

Stop giving yourself airs, young one, you're supposed to be a professional Roll

PS:

(In other words, no it doesn't, and outside your organisation, it isn't. Next!

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.