Ships & Modules

Shield caps suck due to how leadership and gank links apply to shields, jumping into a hostile situation thus means you wade into battle with your trousers on your ankles. Also, that fit doesn't make any sort of realistic sense, for various reasons.

- You don't get the extra HP from leadership as you jump in, all you get is an increased MAXED HP but that doesn't help you much if you jump into a battle
- 3 invuls means you have a lot of diminishing returns, especially if you factor in gang links
- memory cells means your total cap increases while not affecting recharge percentage wise meaning it takes long for you to travel
- no sebo

I'm sorry but this very much sounds like "no really, armour tanking a Raven makes full sense, honestly". You can try to justify it all you want and come up with some sort of scenario where this would work but in the vast majority of situations it doesn't make sense.

Your shield fit:

- caps out in 3.5 mins (and has horrible recharge)
- has 2.2 mil EHP with T2 links from a Tengu (would you have the time to fully recharge your shields, which you don't)
- doesn't have the equivalent of slave implants (crystals don't work on caps)
- tanks 14.4k
- 12k dps

Armour fit:
- caps out in 6+ minutes ( with good recharge)
- has 3.6 mil EHP (with LG slaves and T2 links)
- tanks 8k
- close to 10k dps
- has a sebo

Result:

- yours does 20% more dps
- yours tanks a lot more but lack approxs 1.6 m EHP (links, LG slave set and not counting extra shield HP on jump in)


In a no opposition scenario you can easily swap out a resist for a 3rd mag stab on the armour fit making the dps equal (and add a TC would you want to). In a light opposition scenario you might be able to tank them if they really came ill prepared but if you can't you lack the EHP to wait for help. In a heavy battle your lack of EHP means you're paper thin. Also, you can't travel to where you need to be really quickly.

Ok, when i asked for a fit, this is the kind of reply that i wanted, just not with a setup attached.

To tackle the points in order.
1. Yours does 20% more DPS. While on paper this is correct, in actuality, it is much higher. Look, those 2 tracking enhancers on the moros aren't just for show, they give it NEEDED boost to range. without them you get 19+19 range. This is BAD for POS bashing, as you essentially need to be @ 38km to deal HALF damage, as opposed to the 55km (24+31). Given that most dreads are dropped 40-50km from a POS (just from general experience), your proposed setup does far less than 20% less dps than mine does in practice.

2. lack of EHP. in a fight where a tank does not matter, you are DEAD before you exit your siege mode, regardless of how much EHP you have in this situation. I PURPOSELY kept implants out of the equation so that the replacement cost for an organization/individual would be LOW. If something can tear through you in your siege mode, 60% more HP is not going to help. Also, did you overheat the shield hardeners? those do give it a nice extra 200,000 ehp (2.4M).

3. You can't travel to where you need to be really quickly. Did you even read my reply on this part? I agreed with you that if you are NOT using stations, you should be using CCCs, as they increase your recharge as opposed to your total cal (needless to say, total cap also helps against neuting BSs for a bit). In a situation where you are using stations, capacitor does NOT matter. In any case, out in 0.0, many alliances running pantheon/triage carrier setups will Cap Transfer other capitals back up to the needed capacitor amount to keep jumping.

Look, either you are in lowsec and implants are feasable, stations are usable, and the chances of being hotdropped are relatively small (still a possibility though), where my fit beats yours in DPS, equal in travel time, and better in tank. OR you are in deep, non NPC 0.0, with CCC rigs, in which having nice implants is just silly (bubbles + ships going boom = fresh clone), and getting hotdropped is a real possibility, completely negating the EHP of the ship, as it is LESS than 10M, which is a conservative estimate of how much HP you would need to SURVIVE a supercap hotdrop for longer than your siege cycle (yes i know i didnt count NPC 0.0, which the travel times are the same, and you still get podded, and im not going to even get into WH space, dreads in WHs is a can of worms that i'm not even going to try and open, lacking experience using dreads in WHs).

In any case, this shield Moros fit wins over your fit in one if not more ways (more dps, longer range, better tank), or the advantage that your dread gets you frankly does not matter (2.4M and 3.6M ehp dont make THAT much of a difference when you are getting ganked by supers).

The only point i concede to you is the lack of a sensor booster, which i did in fact mention in an earlier post, the solution being to replace an invuln field (solves your stacking penalty issue) with a sensor booster, dropping the tank by 2000 but giving it a much better lock time.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't the sensor booster normally scripted for scan resolution, not lock range?

PL had all their dreads long range fitted (nowadays we barly uses them besides for prob kitchen sink second or third wave supercap whelp scenarios,titans works bether for everything) Anyways if "everyone" else fit their dreads short range the enemy(if smart) simply gonna cyno in their sniper dreads at 100km and have a field day. for small gangs short range dreads prob work best, however once u pass a certain point your pretty likerly to attrack some more educated fools.

that been said a dread tank(in a 0.0 enviroment) is prob all about ehp and bust tankj(since your likerly enemy is titans/supercarrier blobs or alphafleets (typical goons)) Likerly the tank wont rly matter since your dead anyways if your caught.
shield tank might makie some sence here. tho you prob would fit max shield extenders rigs anyways.


In wormholes its more about lasting fighting capabiltys since your killer is prob gonna be running out of cap due to limited gangs and enemy caps.

Low sec can be a mix of both.

that been said I doesnt like fitting 3 invus on anything (stacking pentalty) and that co prossessor makes me scream.
For "small" gang pvp I definitly would have armor tanked it so I could fit tracking comps(which u can script after what u need, rather than been stuck with the slightly mix of both things Tracking enhancers).
also regarding those Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I, renember u likerly to just have 25% cap due to jump in, fitting those means its pretty likerly u WONT be able to jump out again(75% cap) when the siege is over. while fitting ccc or rechargers atleast give u some chance to jump out again once u exit siege. for pure burst tank scenario semiconductors makes sence, but you wont be able to leave the field anything soon:P

I personally would prob go for a cap rep+ 2 faction eanm +dcu tank anyways, to make room for damage mods and stuff , and then fit trimark rigs.

aka final setup would like something like this


cap rep
faction eanm
faction eanm
dcu t2
faction mag stab
faction mag stab
faction mag stab

sensorbooster t2
tracking computer t2
tracking computer t2
cap recharger t2
cap recharger t2(for pos siege)/ EW(painter/web if your doing support killing)

3 guns + siege mod t2

3x trimarks or 2 trimarks and a CCC

they were tolerated because the pilot didn't have access to other fleet BS, nothing to do with prejudice and everything to do with mediocre tank, missile flight time and appalling dps.

Agreed. Armor ravens were tolerated because it was during an era when it was more important to get bodies on the field than it was to get optimised set-ups. They had ewar slots but basically nothing else. You have to go back in time until there was no missile tracking forumla and torps hit at longish range for full damage on everything for them to have been worthwhile in a fleet to pop support ships.

Anyways, on topic:

It's an interesting question if shield tank moros is a worthwhile ship. I can see a few situations where you might want to.

1. In a WH with bonuses to shields. This is fairly self explanatory. The shield tank will give you way better tank, and of course in WHs its much much less likely that someone will dump thousands of subcaps or dozens of caps and supers on you. In that situation, the shield moros makes sense.

2. Maaaaaybe it makes sense in low sec where the possibility of a counter-drop is reasonably low, perhaps to beat on a POS that belongs to no-one in particular or to gank a carrier on a station or similar. In those situations where you are more likely to dock than jump out, and are unlikely to be facing immediate massive dps when you drop to siege. Even then, I'd go with armor in those situations, but y'know. I could understand why someone would use these fits there.

Essentially, aside from in WH space, which has its own rules about what makes the best fit depending on local factors and keeping you away from roaming supers, the shield fit is unlikely to be a great idea. There's a fringe couple of cases where it would make sense, but I'd still prefer to roll with a traditional fit just in case the **** hits the fan.