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A Simple Question For Combat Capsuleers...

Author
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#41 - 2015-10-12 14:17:20 UTC
Once you figure out what you're good at you should stick to it and bring it closer to perfection, day for day.

There are a lot of causes to fight for. Money, fame, politics - some even say for people. I fight for and with my people all the time. This is a reason to give your best, why half-assed attempts aren't cutting it when equipment and lives are at stake. Though it's hardly a reason to fight - I could very well order everyone to stand down and have a peaceful evening/life.

In the end it is about the thrill, the challenges, the very visceral feeling of both triumph and defeat. You can learn a lot about yourself and others on the battlefield, any battlefield, regardless whether the choice of weapons is gunmetal or numbers.

Challenge and competition brings out the best in people.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#42 - 2015-10-12 14:25:13 UTC
I'm a little surprised this hasn't exploded into a bickering contest... Either way its been interesting so far. Thanks to all of you who have already replied!
trenny jr
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#43 - 2015-10-12 14:43:12 UTC
Once, years ago my rage drove me into seeking revenge against those I believed to be responsible for my parents death.

Once I discovered the true events of that day I tried to escape that path, I chose a quiet system and began working free lance for the freedom extension corporation.

This didn't last long, I couldn't help myself I would often find myself engaging innocent pilots in the hope I would get the same calm that washed over me during my time in the caldari millita.

Eventually I suppose I truly spiralled out of control. I just felt so free, for the most fleeting moments as I was engaged in combat I could escape the anger that burns me.

What drives me to combat? It's simply all I know.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#44 - 2015-10-13 05:46:24 UTC
trenny jr wrote:
Once, years ago my rage drove me into seeking revenge against those I believed to be responsible for my parents death.

Once I discovered the true events of that day I tried to escape that path, I chose a quiet system and began working free lance for the freedom extension corporation.

This didn't last long, I couldn't help myself I would often find myself engaging innocent pilots in the hope I would get the same calm that washed over me during my time in the caldari millita.

Eventually I suppose I truly spiralled out of control. I just felt so free, for the most fleeting moments as I was engaged in combat I could escape the anger that burns me.

What drives me to combat? It's simply all I know.

Former kirjuun, you have missed the essential thing that keeps.us human and same. You should continue to fight for a cause and make sure that all the killing has some worthy end. The ends justify the means - just ask any of the people you save and serve through the means that we both know and love.

The unfortunate truth is that we become somewhat indistinguishable from each other if one analyses those means. It's only the ends that truly separate us. I fight for the glorious State. The State really don't care about the means. If I were to be nothing more than a pirate, they'd disown me. If the pirate kills me then I am a hero. If I kill the pirate, well, I'm a hero.

It's nice to be a hero.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

trenny jr
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#45 - 2015-10-13 11:41:31 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
trenny jr wrote:
Once, years ago my rage drove me into seeking revenge against those I believed to be responsible for my parents death.

Once I discovered the true events of that day I tried to escape that path, I chose a quiet system and began working free lance for the freedom extension corporation.

This didn't last long, I couldn't help myself I would often find myself engaging innocent pilots in the hope I would get the same calm that washed over me during my time in the caldari millita.

Eventually I suppose I truly spiralled out of control. I just felt so free, for the most fleeting moments as I was engaged in combat I could escape the anger that burns me.

What drives me to combat? It's simply all I know.

Former kirjuun, you have missed the essential thing that keeps.us human and same. You should continue to fight for a cause and make sure that all the killing has some worthy end. The ends justify the means - just ask any of the people you save and serve through the means that we both know and love.

The unfortunate truth is that we become somewhat indistinguishable from each other if one analyses those means. It's only the ends that truly separate us. I fight for the glorious State. The State really don't care about the means. If I were to be nothing more than a pirate, they'd disown me. If the pirate kills me then I am a hero. If I kill the pirate, well, I'm a hero.

It's nice to be a hero.

A cause isn't hard to find in the cluster. I now fight for the minmatar republic but that doesn't change what drove me to seek an excuse to fight.

I could just as easily have taken up arms against the republic, the cause I fight for it almost irrelevant.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#46 - 2015-10-13 14:18:20 UTC
But it remains most important, psychologically, that you have one. Exchanging body count for pay is alright as far as performance metrics within a wider picture go, but it is a poor reason for being.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2015-10-13 14:23:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
But it remains most important, psychologically, that you have one. Exchanging body count for pay is alright as far as performance metrics within a wider picture go, but it is a poor reason for being.


I shoot things for pay.

Then again I also shoot things with no payout just to see how well I can shoot the fellow.

Man is like a machine. He can always be optimised, improved on, built on. I want to see how far I can go, and how far my ship can go, and what can be optimised and improved on.

No higher cause, I admit. Just nothing but bloodthirsty curiosity.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Arrendis
TK Corp
#48 - 2015-10-13 15:57:27 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
The unfortunate truth is that we become somewhat indistinguishable from each other if one analyses those means. It's only the ends that truly separate us. I fight for the glorious State. The State really don't care about the means. If I were to be nothing more than a pirate, they'd disown me. If the pirate kills me then I am a hero. If I kill the pirate, well, I'm a hero.

It's nice to be a hero.


Hate to point this out, but you're a merc. You fight for pay. The State isn't your cause, it's just your alliance's employer. Six months ago, you fought for the Empire. It wasn't some great ideological change that prompted your alliance to move from one warzone to another, it was the prospects of more money.

And when the people above you decide to go back to Amarr space, you'll go with them. A cause is something you believe in - something you commit to, not just something you're paid to advance.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#49 - 2015-10-13 16:03:08 UTC
Well, a cause and funding for said cause are two different things entirely, I don't always fly with the militia, or even with my own kin, my cause drives me to fund myself. When I flew with co2 I was building up my experience and isk reserves, when I flew with scope works, the same thing. In the end my goals didn't change due to my employer. When your funding and your cause are aligned its great. If they aren't, well..... Ships aren't free.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#50 - 2015-10-13 16:07:53 UTC
Right, but that was you changing employers to pursue your goals. He's flying for his employer, and shooting who his employer tells him to shoot, even when it means completely leaving the Caldari warzone. That's not 'flying for the State' any more than it's 'flying for the Empire'.

It's 'flying for the guy who signs my check'.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#51 - 2015-10-13 16:41:13 UTC
Well, I went to tribute because my employer wanted me to, I shot at mordus angel and many other capsuleers because my alliance fleet commanders ordered it. Does that help my cause? Nope. Did it fund me now, that fundings drying up but yes. He's with a group doing the same. I went from egghelende to h-w not really by choice. My own goals didn't really prosper from it, but it funded me now.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#52 - 2015-10-13 17:08:41 UTC
And there's a difference between having a cause, and actively pursuing that cause. If fighting for the Republic is your cause, if that's what you're after and that's what you want to dedicate yourself to, then that's great. And building up a pile of ISK in null is a great way to prepare for that, but while you're building up that ISK, you're not flying for the Republic. You didn't go to H-W to fight for the Republic. You went there to do what you needed to do in order to make money so you could later fight for the Republic.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#53 - 2015-10-13 17:46:08 UTC
Oh, I think I see what your saying. In that light that makes sense.
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#54 - 2015-10-13 17:55:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Desiderya
Arrendis wrote:


Hate to point this out, but you're a merc. You fight for pay. The State isn't your cause, it's just your alliance's employer. Six months ago, you fought for the Empire. It wasn't some great ideological change that prompted your alliance to move from one warzone to another, it was the prospects of more money.

And when the people above you decide to go back to Amarr space, you'll go with them. A cause is something you believe in - something you commit to, not just something you're paid to advance.


Goals, motivations and strategies are rarely summed up within a timeframe of six months or with simple platitudes such as this. Nor are reasons to stay with a group as one-dimensional as you make it seem. There is more than one way to come closer to one's goals and sometimes you may even have to tread off the beaten path.

What makes you think that ISK and ISK alone is what drives professional mercenaries? Ever heard of the concept that one can afford choice?

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#55 - 2015-10-13 18:34:02 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Right, but that was you changing employers to pursue your goals. He's flying for his employer, and shooting who his employer tells him to shoot, even when it means completely leaving the Caldari warzone. That's not 'flying for the State' any more than it's 'flying for the Empire'.

It's 'flying for the guy who signs my check'.


And the person who, eventually, signs my paycheque is one of the Okusaiken, so...

See, I used to fight exclusively within the Caldari/Gallente warzone, but once I had that conflict deconstructed for me as being, essentially, largely marginal to actual Caldari interests, it didn't take me too long to elevate my gaze to the bigger picture. Bear with me, a moment...

See, if fighting in the official Caldari warzone doesn't serve State interests, then there's no way that fighting outside of it is, in anyway, abrogating any responsibilities I have towards the State - especially after Heth's paradigm of Nationalism within the State broke down and was revealed to be nothing more than sophistry. With the concept of any centralised political identity that can be called "The State" debunked, it all comes down to the real political blocs that make up that culture - the Okusaiken or the Eight Megacorps.

Picking an Employer was super-easy for me. I already had KK citizenship and they had had my back when I needed them.

So now, everything comes down to serving the interests of my Corporation. I'm not an executive, but I do work for one - and she handles matters of larger policy. Meanwhile, I serve in the role picked for me by my employers and trust that if society as a whole has an issue with that, then it'll let me know.

It doesn't, and you know why? My costs come from company coffers and my economic output flows back into those coffers. I am an efficient pilot, not the best pilot by any stretch of the imagination, but I am loyal and effective and efficient. My crews are KK crews, so their cost is supported by me and those costs are sunk into corporate infrastructure. Not only do I support hundreds of citizens simply through my consumption of people and materiel, but those citizens ALSO support citizens through THEIR economic activity. Arguably, when the money that flowed into us came from Empress Sarum's coffers we were in a period of MAXIMUM economic utility to our corporation, as our money flow wasn't entirely internal to KK, but turned Imperial assets into Caldari income.

I should note that we provided this foreign capital to Mama-KK at precisely the time in which she was economically wounded by Heth's ruinous policies. Can you imagine a better service that a citizen can provide for his Corporation than to help support it in a time of trouble? I can't. We lived off the land and we shipped money back home - that's better than providing a mere service to the Corporation.

You say that Deitra is a perfect patriot because she changes employer to maintain her larger goals. I'm telling you that I am a good Patriot precisely because I have NOT changed my employer just because she required me to get my hands dirty and absorb some abuse from those without a proper grasp of ideology as it applies to Caldari Corporatism. I am a servant of the State and the State has not had any reason to grumble about the way in which I've served her - working for an honest Private Military Contractor affiliated with one of her finest Corporations.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Arrendis
TK Corp
#56 - 2015-10-13 20:23:46 UTC
Desiderya wrote:
What makes you think that ISK and ISK alone is what drives professional mercenaries? Ever heard of the concept that one can afford choice?


Considering the profession is defined as fighting for money, not causes?

Gee, I don't know.

There's a difference between 'mercenaries' and 'irregulars'. When I've spoken with those representing PYRE's leadership via holo-channels, they made it clear that the alliance is mercenaries, and will change allegiances when they feel the money warrants it.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#57 - 2015-10-13 20:39:01 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Desiderya wrote:
What makes you think that ISK and ISK alone is what drives professional mercenaries? Ever heard of the concept that one can afford choice?


Considering the profession is defined as fighting for money, not causes?

Gee, I don't know.

There's a difference between 'mercenaries' and 'irregulars'. When I've spoken with those representing PYRE's leadership via holo-channels, they made it clear that the alliance is mercenaries, and will change allegiances when they feel the money warrants it.


You act like the two statements are mutually exclusive. We make money for Kaalakiota Corporation - why do you think that KK cares who our customers are? You really think that taking Imperial money to fight Minmatar militia is exclusive to being loyal to Kaalakiota? Do you think that switching customers to a more lucrative deal (as we just have done) invalidates our basic loyalty as an organisation? Do you think that employing capsuleers who do not share our base affiliation in any way renders that affiliation invalid? Why? What, precisely, do you think you've caught us out in?

If we switch from State Protectorate to 24th Imperial Crusade, does that make us anti-State? If we switch from 24th Imperial Crusade to fighting Gallente on behalf of Serpentis (to use a more controversial example) does THAT make us anti-State? If you had caught us taking a commission from the FDU to fight the State Protectorate you might have a point, but you haven't, have you?

Of all people, you should really be one to grasp this the fastest, Arrendis. The only difference between us is that we've sworn allegiance to an outfit that's not owned by capsuleers. The downside? We're not as prestigious within that outfit as capsuleers are within your outfit. The upside? We have thousands of worlds with trillions of people supporting us, and our outfit is tried and tested in the fires of a couple of centuries of war, not a decade.

And that's what I was saying you need. That overarching loyalty to put the difficulties of the day-to-day into context - belonging to something not only bigger than you are, but bigger than your outfit is.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Persephone Alleile
Tartarus Covert Operations
#58 - 2015-10-13 20:45:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Persephone Alleile
This is something that I have been thinking about lately, why do I fight?

I didn't consider myself a combat pilot until fairly recently. I was raised in the Ida faith and taught the importance of tolerance, wisdom and peace. I graduated from the Center for Advanced Studies with a Master's degree in Astroarchaeology and set about trying to make a peaceful living collecting artifacts and salvaging the wreckage that litter the spaceways. It did not take me long in my journeys through New Eden to realize that peace is fleeting in open space. In the vast ocean of stars the big fish will feed on the little fish, simply because they can. I have died and been reborn more times than I can remember (a luxury our baseliner crews do not share), but I am no Idama. The wisdom I have gained from the rebirth offered through clone and capsule does not lead to enlightenment, but rather, it seems, to a hardening of the heart. The sad reality is that to be respected as a capsuleer one must attain power and prove oneself in combat. One must become the big fish. This is the path we walk if we wish to have the respect of our peers.

My interests in Sleeper and Talocan technology led me to apply to a corporation based in remote unknown space. Out here the only rule is might makes right. Weakness is quickly discovered and exploited. I still remember my early days as a CAS grad student exploring wormhole space, the feeling of being watched, the fear and the panic as a ship de-cloaks a couple kilometres off your bow. I also remember my first podkill, an explorer just like me flying a Buzzard, my own ship of choice in my early days of exploration, collecting artifacts from a ruined Sansha temple. I can't say I felt good about it, the only thing they had done wrong was to attempt to loot relics from a location in our wormhole chain, but it definitely flipped a switch for me. I had crossed the boundary and now I was the one lurking in the darkness, waiting to prey on those ventured out into the unknown.

My encounters with other capsuleer corporations in wormhole space have highlighted a need to improve and sharpen my combat skills. Combat against capsuleers offers quite a lot more challenge than fighting baseliner pirates or even Sleepers. In order to train my combat skills I've taken to roaming around warzones looking for opponents against whom I could prove myself, with my security status dropping all the while. Then just last night I found myself leading some of my corpmates in an unprovoked attack on a miner in Ouelletta. A Kestral rushed to the miner's defense and we destroyed that ship as well. In the aftermath I realized that the pilot of the Kestral was a member of the Intaki Liberation Front, an organization which has done much for the Intaki people and for which I have a lot of respect, who was fulfilling their anti-piracy duties in Intaki space. Sometimes I wonder if I am becoming one of the pirates I maligned years ago when I was starting out as a capsuleer, and I worry about how natural it feels.

Well That's my story. So why do I fight? If you want to get to the quick of it I'd say I fight because it's my destiny as a capsuleer. We have achieved virtual immortality but it seems were still caught up in games of power and violence, each of us with blood on our hands. I can only hope that the coming decades or centuries will quell our lust for carnage and we can begin to use our power for the advancement of humanity, but until then it seems the path I walk is one stained in blood.

Praavat.
Avio Yaken
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#59 - 2015-10-13 21:02:56 UTC
Why do i fight...


Its quite simple really....Is it for isk? Partly...Mostly because i was raised to be a warrior, a fighter to uphold my clan's traditions and honor my ancestors,

My Clan are warriors, we live to fight and prove ourselfs as skillful and deadly honorable mercenaries, at a young age we are put though a brutal training program that lasts 8 years to prepare us for the career of a skilled mercenary...Why mercenaries you may ask? Because we believe that a true warrior should not tie themselves down to one faction forever, we should go here the fight is and sell our skills to either the weakest or strongest foe...depends on how challenging we want the fight.


in short, i fight because i want to fight, i do not wish to slay non-combatants...i wish to find a challenging fight to prove myself..if i lose? then i will know that i have yet to achieve the greatness i so desire and i will train to overcome that lose to continue my goal of being the ultimate warrior

(.___________________________________________.)/

Arrendis
TK Corp
#60 - 2015-10-13 21:14:53 UTC
First off, I haven't called anyone a perfect anything, so let's not put words in my mouth, hmmm?

I said you're a merc. And you are. Now, if the CEO of MF1B's executor corp there would like to revise and/or correct the statements made by others in her employ, and establish that MF1B will only work for the State, or even provide access to an abridged form of MF1B's balance sheets that demonstrates that during the time when the Alliance was employed by the Amarr, moneys were in fact flowing back to the Caldari Megacorp, then I'll be happy to revise my own statement.

Until then? Merc, and you fly for the cash in your pocket.