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Crime & Punishment

 
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Hyperdunking nerf on sisi, to the battlements!

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Author
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#141 - 2015-10-11 22:35:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Saskia Laru wrote:
The tears from the AG crowd are enjoyable though.

You do notice that most tears on this topic are flowing from the ganker camp, don't you?
Anyway, this change is not really neded as much as fixes to hisec freighter bumping and looting by transfer to fleet hanger are.

Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
The increases in reward for PVE activity in highsec mean there simply isn't prey to be found outside high.

Want us back out in low or null plying our trade there? Then lobby CCP to end highsec incursions and drop L4 mission payouts, and then you will see the prey head out to dangerous space.

Most of us predators will follow them.

Simple, really.


Lol, how is ganking freighters filled to the brink with low/nullsec goods related to increased payouts in hisec exactly?
Not sure if trolling, but let me help you - check this and tell me again that there is no PvP content out of hisec. Funny boys.
Saskia Laru
Saskia Laru Trading Corporation
#142 - 2015-10-11 22:40:16 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Then what you doing in highsec ganking freighters and miners trololol


Going where CCP send us.

The increases in reward for PVE activity in highsec mean there simply isn't prey to be found outside high.

Want us back out in low or null plying our trade there? Then lobby CCP to end highsec incursions and drop L4 mission payouts, and then you will see the prey head out to dangerous space.

Most of us predators will follow them.

Simple, really.




That will never happen, more's the pity. Sad
412nv Yaken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#143 - 2015-10-11 22:47:50 UTC
Nighthawk The Assassin wrote:
412nv Yaken wrote:
MMORPG...... what does it stand for? Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. Yet solo freighter pilots can cry enough on the forums, reddit, petitions and get a play style banned. If they had 1 friend who brought reps, hyper dunking would not work.

LOGIC


Except this is bullshit. You play a play style that in ANY other game would be constituted as "Griefing" i.e deliberately upsetting other players in attempt to get "your rocks off". In ANY other game you would have warnings, temps bangs and then perma bans.

Yet in this cess pit CCP is now starting to realise that allowing this type of game play is in fact killing the game. In the last two years we have lost close to 22 THOUSAND players who have quit in disgust. So yet, with the base fact evidence that we are not retaining new players, you continue this play style with one goal in mind. To take down EvE and say "yeh we did that".

Which shows a disgusting mindset. No, all of you, griefers, need to be stopped so eve can grow. So eve can retain new players who can look after children and afk mine to make ISK, who can log in in super shiny ships they earned and feel safe flying about in empire space.

If you want loot so badly, go low/null/wh's and fight for it, but you don't, you spout "risk vs reward" like it's a shield, yet when a player i.e me suggested link alt's become *suspect* as soon as they enter the field, what did u all do? You war decked the **** out of the corp i was in and forced it to disband as we had 2k+ players on us in a 15 man corps.

Why should we Risk our stuff to get rewards when you risk NOTHING to get yours, ganking is NOT RISK VS REWARD, death is a certainty when ganking i.e so it is not BY LOGIC Risk vs reward. The shield you hide behind is complete and utter rubbish, you use a motto of the game to do one thing.

Grief other players in an attempt to **** as many people off as possible and call is "risk vs reward" when you infact risk nothing as u know you will loose your ship so by definition of "risk". No, there is no risk, its a certainty you will loose your ship so BY EXTENSION OF YOUR LOGIC it is pre planned assault on another player.

So stop spouting your crap like it means anything. Griefers are the biggest cowards in the game and always will be.

You dont dare head to real pvp areas because you would get slapped sideways so much by real players, you'd realise what you call pvp is infact ganking and griefing and NOT pvp.

GTFO



I'll just let my little homies ride on you.

Enjoy wow

A True Champion of High Security Space

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#144 - 2015-10-11 22:59:23 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Saskia Laru wrote:
The tears from the AG crowd are enjoyable though.

You do notice that most tears on this topic are flowing from the ganker camp, don't you?
Anyway, this change is not really neded as much as fixes to hisec freighter bumping and looting by transfer to fleet hanger are.

Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
The increases in reward for PVE activity in highsec mean there simply isn't prey to be found outside high.

Want us back out in low or null plying our trade there? Then lobby CCP to end highsec incursions and drop L4 mission payouts, and then you will see the prey head out to dangerous space.

Most of us predators will follow them.

Simple, really.


Lol, how is ganking freighters filled to the brink with low/nullsec goods related to increased payouts in hisec exactly?
Not sure if trolling, but let me help you - check this and tell me again that there is no PvP content out of hisec. Funny boys.


Anyone dumb enough to get killed in highsec in a freighter deserves a Darwin Award.

A freighter with an appropriate escort is almost totally invincible in highsec. A freighter, interceptor and Daredevil together can counter every gank tactic used or, worst case, can tell a system is too dangerous to enter in advance of going into it.

As for people that undock a freighter without an escort and without capacity to escalate - they are as dumb as people that rat in carriers without being aligned, having an exit cyno or paying attention to intel. EVE is designed to punish stupid play.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#145 - 2015-10-11 23:14:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Anyone dumb enough to get killed in highsec in a freighter deserves a Darwin Award.

Maybe in your world, not in mine. Especially not the way freighters are dieing nowdays (atk, empty ones). Your ideas about forcing people into some imaginary 'right' gameplay mode will in the long enough run only result in one thing - nerfs. Wait and see.
Also - fun fact, decline of eve player numbers began way before any of the bigger 'nerfs' to hisec 'emergent gameplay' hit the game.

EDIT: While on the topic of Darwin Awards and 'anyone dumb enough to get killed in freighter in hisec' (Adoudel, 2015), do make sure to hand out 2-3 awards to your dear leader. Globby also lost at least one freighter so... you get the idea. (thanks Sarah Lol)
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2015-10-11 23:40:29 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Saskia Laru wrote:
The tears from the AG crowd are enjoyable though.

You do notice that most tears on this topic are flowing from the ganker camp, don't you?
Anyway, this change is not really neded as much as fixes to hisec freighter bumping and looting by transfer to fleet hanger are.

Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
The increases in reward for PVE activity in highsec mean there simply isn't prey to be found outside high.

Want us back out in low or null plying our trade there? Then lobby CCP to end highsec incursions and drop L4 mission payouts, and then you will see the prey head out to dangerous space.

Most of us predators will follow them.

Simple, really.


Lol, how is ganking freighters filled to the brink with low/nullsec goods related to increased payouts in hisec exactly?
Not sure if trolling, but let me help you - check this and tell me again that there is no PvP content out of hisec. Funny boys.


Anyone dumb enough to get killed in highsec in a freighter deserves a Darwin Award.

A freighter with an appropriate escort is almost totally invincible in highsec. A freighter, interceptor and Daredevil together can counter every gank tactic used or, worst case, can tell a system is too dangerous to enter in advance of going into it.

As for people that undock a freighter without an escort and without capacity to escalate - they are as dumb as people that rat in carriers without being aligned, having an exit cyno or paying attention to intel. EVE is designed to punish stupid play.


It seems more designed to punish people who don't multibox support alts, frankly.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#147 - 2015-10-12 02:28:15 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:

Maybe in your world, not in mine. Especially not the way freighters are dieing nowdays (atk, empty ones). Your ideas about forcing people into some imaginary 'right' gameplay mode will in the long enough run only result in one thing - nerfs. Wait and see.


"being at the keyboard" is not an imaginary right gameplay mode. "bothering to defend myself" is not an imaginary right gameplay mode.

But hey, by all means keep trying to champion the supposed right of people to deliberately play the game wrong. Your excuses and selfish justifications just make it less likely that people will ever wise up and start playing the game correctly, and that means more targets for people like us.

Much like how you should be thanking us for bringing real gameplay to people who otherwise would never see it, I should be thanking you for helping to ensure a steady supply of entitled, ignorant, perpetual victims.



Quote:

Also - fun fact, decline of eve player numbers began way before any of the bigger 'nerfs' to hisec 'emergent gameplay' hit the game.


Interestingly, if you control for the ISBoxer population we lost recently, they coincide almost perfectly. Like, literally a few weeks after the nerfs, every time. Just long enough for subscriptions to run out.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Faylee Freir
Slavers Union
Something Really Pretentious
#148 - 2015-10-12 02:58:31 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Saskia Laru wrote:
The tears from the AG crowd are enjoyable though.

You do notice that most tears on this topic are flowing from the ganker camp, don't you?
Anyway, this change is not really neded as much as fixes to hisec freighter bumping and looting by transfer to fleet hanger are.


Most of the looting is done with a freighter. If it's DST-able yeah that gets used. I have only used a DST maybe once though, so I don't see why this is a huge issue. Also, you try to pop all the wrecks you can so.......... there's your counter!
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#149 - 2015-10-12 07:56:58 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
It seems more designed to punish people who don't multibox support alts, frankly.


Just want to highlight this as it is actually very important, it actually is a reason why casual players decide that Eve is not the game for them...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Mag's
Azn Empire
#150 - 2015-10-12 08:00:24 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Anyone dumb enough to get killed in highsec in a freighter deserves a Darwin Award.

A freighter with an appropriate escort is almost totally invincible in highsec. A freighter, interceptor and Daredevil together can counter every gank tactic used or, worst case, can tell a system is too dangerous to enter in advance of going into it.

As for people that undock a freighter without an escort and without capacity to escalate - they are as dumb as people that rat in carriers without being aligned, having an exit cyno or paying attention to intel. EVE is designed to punish stupid play.

Maybe in your world, not in mine. Especially not the way freighters are dieing nowdays (atk, empty ones). Your ideas about forcing people into some imaginary 'right' gameplay mode will in the long enough run only result in one thing - nerfs. Wait and see.
Also - fun fact, decline of eve player numbers began way before any of the bigger 'nerfs' to hisec 'emergent gameplay' hit the game.
There is nothing wrong with the killing of empty freighters and it doesn't change the point. If they had friends helping to move it, it would have been safe. Before you start ranting, yes I am aware not that many player (if any) would have a friend move an empty freighter. But that still doesn't exclude the other options open, such as avoiding systems and the time of your move.

It's also not about forcing people into any type of game play either, it's simply advice. They either do it or do not, that is their choice. But it's a bit rich to not follow advice, then complain about it later. You took the risk, you paid with a loss. It happens, even to gankers.

Also you're wrong about the nerfs, they have been on going since 2003. The biggest decline was also not a result of players, it was a direct result of CCP trying other things none PvP related. They have been trying to play catch up ever since.

I'm surprised you didn't go for C&P bingo and say that players leave because of ganking. Or try to suggest once again, some sort of RL psychological issues that are related to blowing up space pixels. You could have won the thread.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#151 - 2015-10-12 08:21:09 UTC
Mag's wrote:
But that still doesn't exclude the other options open, such as avoiding systems and the time of your move.


So choosing choke point systems like Uedama and Niarja negate that argument, who would have thunk that...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

HANDS UP DONTSHOOT
Doomheim
#152 - 2015-10-12 09:07:22 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Mag's wrote:
But that still doesn't exclude the other options open, such as avoiding systems and the time of your move.


So choosing choke point systems like Uedama and Niarja negate that argument, who would have thunk that...

HEY MAN DONT UNDOCK. I HEAR REPORTS OF PVP EVEN IN PLACES THAT ARE SAFE PLACES TO VOYAGE THROUGH.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#153 - 2015-10-12 09:26:03 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Mag's wrote:
But that still doesn't exclude the other options open, such as avoiding systems and the time of your move.


So choosing choke point systems like Uedama and Niarja negate that argument, who would have thunk that...



There are plenty of quiet lowsec routes that bypass those systems, and that a freighter with a scout will safely pass through.

Plus there's other options to consider. I have moved over a quarter trillion worth of goods in the last year without loss, via courier contracts, at absolutely no risk to myself and at very low cost (probably paid about 2 billion total, after accounting for the modest profits from the two failed contracts).

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#154 - 2015-10-12 10:42:27 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Mag's wrote:
But that still doesn't exclude the other options open, such as avoiding systems and the time of your move.


So choosing choke point systems like Uedama and Niarja negate that argument, who would have thunk that...



There are plenty of quiet lowsec routes that bypass those systems, and that a freighter with a scout will safely pass through.

Plus there's other options to consider. I have moved over a quarter trillion worth of goods in the last year without loss, via courier contracts, at absolutely no risk to myself and at very low cost (probably paid about 2 billion total, after accounting for the modest profits from the two failed contracts).

Wait are you telling me in 250 red frog trips only 2 ever got ganked... that would mean most freighters make it safely through...

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#155 - 2015-10-12 10:49:07 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Wait are you telling me in 250 red frog trips only 2 ever got ganked... that would mean most freighters make it safely through...


Now, if CCP can just make sure 3 of those 2 also arrive safely, high sec will be perfectly balanced.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#156 - 2015-10-12 11:58:02 UTC
I see the usual suspects are still spouting their uninformed, myopic and ignorant drivel. Roll

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#157 - 2015-10-12 11:59:58 UTC
Chelsea Dagger X wrote:
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Chelsea Dagger X wrote:
Stop aggression in hisec completely.....


And then watch the game die.

I watched Ultima Online go this route.

And it died.

Pirates Of The Burning Seas had a great way of handling it..........and I watched the devs kill their own game, due primarily to loudmouthed idiots like you.

And now its dead.

Go play Star Trek Online if you want a game like that., it seems more your speed.

And hey. It's free.

Roll





You make the assumption that I am some sort of carebear.

The only reason people PVP in hisec is because they want to shoot things that dont shoot back.


Some of us do it for money :D
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#158 - 2015-10-12 12:13:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Faylee Freir wrote:
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
[quote=Saskia Laru]The tears from the AG crowd are enjoyable though.

You do notice that most tears on this topic are flowing from the ganker camp, don't you?
Anyway, this change is not really needed as much as fixes to hisec freighter bumping and looting by transfer to fleet hanger are.


It's not a big issue, it just is AN issue. Your guys (code/goons/htfu crowd who think I'm advocating hisec as a theme park) always use numbers when you want to prove that something does not require change. “Only 2 out of 250 freighters in Red Frog ever get ganked”, “1 in 50 freighters moving through Uedama gets killed, hence it is not an issue” etc. I don't see it like that, and I doubt CCP does, because it is a matter of general game mechanics, not the extent of a mechanic being (ab)used. How many people were affected by skynetting for example? I'd say not too many in terms of PvP kills. Still it got nerfed, not because of the overall impact but because it was an almost risk free and, ultimately, stupid mechanic.

Same goes for DST looting, it might not be the most used mechanic but in its core it is absolutely against everything EVE is about when talking about risk and reward. It's sad to see all the HTFU crowd being so vocal to miners/indy pilots about need to accept risks while at the same time so defensive against removal/rework of this, clearly broken, mechanic. Yes it can be countered by looting before the DST, popping the wreck etc, however the fact remains - ability to loot using DST when only the disposable alt who transfers the loot goes suspect is counter-intuitive and broken.

It is pretty much the same for freighter bumping in hi-sec. Consequence-free ability to keep a ship in place with a slight ISK investment, disposable alt and basic piloting skills is ok? Attempting to counter it requires at least the same investment of both people and isk (usually more), quite a decent set of skills and is far less reliable then bumping, but still - bumping is ok? Let’s not forget - if you have two bumping machs, there is no counter, whatsoever. How’s that for good mechanics? Oh and when I say that the fact that you can gank those bumpers cannot be considered an acceptable reliable counter, I get flamed, but let me repeat it – ganking bumpers cannot be considered a legitimate counter. Why? Well ganking bumper is a consequence-laden act (loss of ship, sec status and providing a killright) countering something which can be done without any consequence at all while still acting in an aggressive role (aggression-free warp disruption).

Fact is - if bumper has any idea what he's doing, countering him is much more difficult than the actual bumping he performs is. I have done bumping, counter bumping, bumping into warp, suiciding alt to provide window of opportunity for freighter to get away, cloaky warp-ins, etc. and the fact is – bumping out of warp is absolutely the easiest thing on that list. Furthermore, the fact that you can pinpoint target, keep it bumped/aggressed for basically hours while your buddies respond to OOG pings and form fleets only to kill the target and log off is broken. That is not emergent content, its simply use of a game mechanic which needs serious re-thinking. Add on top of that ISBoxing ganker fleets, alt recycling, warping off under criminal flag and (likely) other exploits CCP clearly can't be bothered investigating and enforcing and you get a broken aspect of the game.

Yes I know I will be flamed again, and no I don’t care.
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#159 - 2015-10-12 12:47:06 UTC
Gank the bumping mach...

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#160 - 2015-10-12 13:06:52 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Gank the bumping mach...


Sounds easy when you say it as a throw away line, doing it is however not an easy matter, a fast moving Macherial set up for bumping is not an easy target, its not at all like a freighter..

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp