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[IKAME] Planned penetrations of Drifter Hive facilities

Author
Arrendis
TK Corp
#41 - 2015-10-10 18:56:20 UTC
Yarosara Ruil wrote:
You underestimate the malice of the common outlaw. Specially when your "expeditions" are of the public domain.


You're still having trouble with those labels, aren't you?
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#42 - 2015-10-10 19:31:18 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Kalaratiri wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
What will they do..?


Wardec you and hotdrop a Titan.


Assuming you're ever in a situation where a titan is usable (kind of hard to do that in highsec).

In all honesty, a wardec against an exploration based group such as IKAME, with no real in-space infrastructure or large assets, is ultimately rather pointless. People get to wave their ego boosting phallic status symbols around, but not much actually happens.


See, this is exactly what I'm talking about: underestimation. PL isn't all about titans and supercapitals. Once you're wardec'd, they're just as likely to use locators to watch your movements and then come hunting you with quick-response teams in subcapitals.

Or to get someone into your corp, wait anywhere from a few months to a year and then come and kill you whenever you put anything even vaguely resembling a significant number of your people on the field - or follow you into w-space, kill anything that might have a probe launcher, and then close the hole on you.

And that's probably still not the half of it, depending on how much you annoy them.


Well err... I can not obviously speak for IKAME, but that seems to hardly apply to many corporations that I usually see there... I mean, it seems easy to me to avoid a war, or infiltrated agents with some specific criteria...
Ypsilas Suonen
Doomheim
#43 - 2015-10-10 19:53:37 UTC
I look forward, with great interest, to the findings of this collaborative operation.
Yarosara Ruil
#44 - 2015-10-10 20:09:27 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
You're still having trouble with those labels, aren't you?


Then what label should I pin on your kind then? Pirates? Outsiders? Reavers? "Nullseccers" doesn't exactly roll on the tongue and gives no justice to the honest citizens that cross the frontier for a better living.

And we are both on the same page here. Underestimating the threats of the likes of Elise Randolph will not end on a good note.

Arrendis
TK Corp
#45 - 2015-10-10 23:54:58 UTC
Yarosara Ruil wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
You're still having trouble with those labels, aren't you?


Then what label should I pin on your kind then? Pirates? Outsiders? Reavers? "Nullseccers" doesn't exactly roll on the tongue and gives no justice to the honest citizens that cross the frontier for a better living.

And we are both on the same page here. Underestimating the threats of the likes of Elise Randolph will not end on a good note.


Should I call everyone who lives in high-security space 'Hiseccers'? Seems a bit broad, doesn't it? How do you feel about being said to be no different than the Gallente, or the war-dec pirates who simply pay off CONCORD in order to have their piracy declared legal? That's ok with you, right?

It's really rather funny that you say 'nullseccers' gives no justice to "the honest citizens that cross the frontier for a better living" - because you're talking to them. None of the null residents who've offered comment have been dishonest, cheated people, or been anything less than honest about who they are - and believe me, given the subjective nature of 'a better living', it applies to each and every one of us.

Refer to them as 'Pandemic Legion'. Refer to me as 'a Goon'. Or even better: stop looking for a convenient label to encompass the people who live in the largest part of the cluster.

Because let's face it: the laws you obey don't even claim to hold sway out here. In Deklein, in Pure Blind, in Delve, our laws govern - and we not only obey our laws, we enforce them vigorously.

So 'Outlaws' is pretty clearly wrong. 'Pirate'? Haven't we already covered that? 'Outsiders'? By what standard? Outside of what? Living outside the State? Outside the 'Empires'? Eh. It's not entirely false, though we certainly spend enough time in Empire space, doing business of one sort or another - many of our corporations even have offices in such fringe systems as Amarr, and Jita. Such outsiders, we are.

'Reavers?'

Well... technically, I am a member of the Imperium's Reaver Special Interest Group, but I'm pretty sure Elise and JEFFRAIDER aren't. Of course, you mean it in a far more generic sense, ie, 'raider'... but of course, then there's a question of who it is we're supposed to be raiding. PL certainly doesn't seem to need to hit Empire convoys and settlements to carry off plunder. And the Imperium definitely doesn't need to. I won't deny that some capsuleers from nullsec organizations engage in that sort of activity... but then, they tend to live in high-sec, too.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2015-10-11 00:01:07 UTC
Reavers? Reavers don't exist.

There are no Reavers.

Move along.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

Wendrika Hydreiga
#47 - 2015-10-11 01:06:49 UTC
Just call them what they are Miss Ruil! It is super easy!

There's the Fat Bee people, like Miss Arrendis. The Skull Virus people. The Brave Lame people. The Always Recruiting people. The Other Mordus Legion people. The Lawn Gnome people. The Bread Spread people. The Monkeys in Space people.

And the list goes on! Of course, you could just ignore all that and treat them like you would treat any other person! It's not that it matters who they work for or not!
Ollie Rundle
#48 - 2015-10-11 02:22:29 UTC
Yarosara Ruil wrote:

Then what label should I pin on your kind then?


The same label you might apply to yourself.

Capsuleer.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#49 - 2015-10-11 04:35:10 UTC
Kalaratiri wrote:

In all honesty, a wardec against an exploration based group such as IKAME, with no real in-space infrastructure or large assets, is ultimately rather pointless. People get to wave their ego boosting phallic status symbols around, but not much actually happens.

However I might dislike refugees to nullsec, here I would prefer to stay on PL side, well, at least morally. You see, CONCORD slightly overdid with capsuleer status and made them immune for many things they should be not.

Look for examples in Jita. There are so many so-called 'scammers' - all the do are lying to get unfair profit by violation of verbal contract they have offered. And they are basically immune from any retribution: their capsuleer status gives them immunity from local (Caldari) laws, neither would CONCORD do anything about them, nor any other capsuleer have ability to get back on them. All we could do is to maintain vigilance and avoid dealing with them.

Makoto Priano is the same type of person. Just like a Jita scammer, Makoto Priano uses her capsuleer status to avoid local laws, to spread lies and get away with it. And I'll give two thumbs to Pandemic Legion, should they actually manage to do something with this person by any means, including ones that Ms. Arrendis has listed.

Meanwhile I would just put a warning again that people shouldn't deal with jita scammers and people like Makoto Priano. Despite they stay in Caldari space or might pretend to be Caldari like Makoto, in fact - they aren't. Don't be fooled by their appearance or locations. They are just capsuleer liars, who use their CONCORD immunity to get away from the penalty.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Arrendis
TK Corp
#50 - 2015-10-11 04:55:22 UTC
Pfft. Aggressive pursuit of money without a care for anyone but themselves? To most of New Eden, Jita scammers are the very essence of 'Caldari'.

Personally, I disagree, but you can't cultivate the corporatist paradigm without suffering the PR blowback from it. The successful scammers make very sure to avoid outright fraud. Those who've been sloppy enough not to... have historically been dealt with by other means.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#51 - 2015-10-11 05:26:29 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Pfft. Aggressive pursuit of money without a care for anyone but themselves? To most of New Eden, Jita scammers are the very essence of 'Caldari'.

Personally, I disagree, but you can't cultivate the corporatist paradigm without suffering the PR blowback from it. The successful scammers make very sure to avoid outright fraud. Those who've been sloppy enough not to... have historically been dealt with by other means.

Ma'am, you don't understand the essence of Caldari. Our profit is not simply monetary gain, it is progress, building something greater, creating and developing. We aren't gallenteans, pursuing "numbers in our wallets", or getting luxuries with them. Corporations for us are our homes, who don't simply pay us for good work, but also build housings, make food, do services for employees, and you probably should know that the services and living conditions for best workers and most successful managers in the State are best in the cluster, even better than infamous hedonistic luxury decadent gallentean apartments. Because we, Caldari, know our jobs.

And speaking about scammers, there is a good saying, that there are two major currencies in our cluster: isk and trust. And only the isk you can restore if you lose it. You see, honor and trust are way more important for business relations than they are for us, officers and soldiers. Though we talk a lot and emphasize them, and our lives depends on them, this is only just because of our beliefs. Business managers lives depend on them physically, because you can't do your business successfully since you lose your trust. There might be small criminal cartels, but where CONCORD doesn't save you and there are no capsules to hide from the law and angry citizens, such activity remains only on small scale and deep underground.

Could you be interested in calculating a half life time of a Gurista, scamming and screaming like Jita scammers in the middle of business trade center on New Caldari?..

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2015-10-11 12:25:41 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Pfft. Aggressive pursuit of money without a care for anyone but themselves? To most of New Eden, Jita scammers are the very essence of 'Caldari'.

Personally, I disagree, but you can't cultivate the corporatist paradigm without suffering the PR blowback from it. The successful scammers make very sure to avoid outright fraud. Those who've been sloppy enough not to... have historically been dealt with by other means.

Ma'am, you don't understand the essence of Caldari. Our profit is not simply monetary gain, it is progress, building something greater, creating and developing. We aren't gallenteans, pursuing "numbers in our wallets", or getting luxuries with them. Corporations for us are our homes, who don't simply pay us for good work, but also build housings, make food, do services for employees, and you probably should know that the services and living conditions for best workers and most successful managers in the State are best in the cluster, even better than infamous hedonistic luxury decadent gallentean apartments. Because we, Caldari, know our jobs.

And speaking about scammers, there is a good saying, that there are two major currencies in our cluster: isk and trust. And only the isk you can restore if you lose it. You see, honor and trust are way more important for business relations than they are for us, officers and soldiers. Though we talk a lot and emphasize them, and our lives depends on them, this is only just because of our beliefs. Business managers lives depend on them physically, because you can't do your business successfully since you lose your trust. There might be small criminal cartels, but where CONCORD doesn't save you and there are no capsules to hide from the law and angry citizens, such activity remains only on small scale and deep underground.

Could you be interested in calculating a half life time of a Gurista, scamming and screaming like Jita scammers in the middle of business trade center on New Caldari?..


If you believe that any corporation in any space does anything that isn't aimed purely at benefiting the bottom line you are kidding yourself. Your corps may treat people well but that is because a loyal 'employee' costs a lot less than an equally skilled mercenary. Still...I've always had more socialist tendancies so if you benefit from the current set up then good for you.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#53 - 2015-10-11 21:42:42 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Pfft. Aggressive pursuit of money without a care for anyone but themselves? To most of New Eden, Jita scammers are the very essence of 'Caldari'.

Personally, I disagree, but you can't cultivate the corporatist paradigm without suffering the PR blowback from it. The successful scammers make very sure to avoid outright fraud. Those who've been sloppy enough not to... have historically been dealt with by other means.


[And then you say a bunch of stuff that demonstrates you didn't actually read it.]


See the bit where I say I disagree with that? That means I do not agree with that view. It is, however, a common one.

So instead of lecturing me, how about you go and lecture everyone you see in local. See how many of them agree with you.

Quote:

Could you be interested in calculating a half life time of a Gurista, scamming and screaming like Jita scammers in the middle of business trade center on New Caldari?..


What makes you think there aren't Guristas among the scammers?
Wendrika Hydreiga
#54 - 2015-10-11 23:29:04 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:

If you believe that any corporation in any space does anything that isn't aimed purely at benefiting the bottom line you are kidding yourself. Your corps may treat people well but that is because a loyal 'employee' costs a lot less than an equally skilled mercenary. Still...I've always had more socialist tendancies so if you benefit from the current set up then good for you.


The Sisters of EVE don't do stuff for profit! Plenty of Amarr corporations work just for spreading their faith! And there's the Sansha zombies that just want to turn people to zombies! Even the Drifters have corporations and they don't seem too concerned with ISK!

I proved you wrong! Yay for me!
Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#55 - 2015-10-12 00:17:19 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:


As for Mr. Victorian, I've spoken with him, and he understands he's both out of line and on thin ice. That's all I can offer in this case. After all, noone involved attempted to de-escalate the situation, but instead met bluster with greater bluster.

As for responsibility for the war, let's be honest here. Was Victorian overstepping his bounds? Absolutely. However, try as you might, noone forced you to declare war. You did it of your own volition. There is no powerful entity forcing your hand on a trigger, no evil driving you to defend yourself; simply words and pride. I won't fault you for declaring the war, of course; it's any capsuleer organization's prerogative to declare war on any other. All I ask is to shed the facade that is claiming that you were not happy and willing to carry on with that farce.



This is woefully incorrect .

I was having a conversation with some heathen and your Mr Victorian entered the conversation flinging mud. He was completely unprovoked, and neither side has asked his opinion about anything. I ignored it. He decided to attack me again, once again unprovoked. I responded with a stern yet fair warning.

Quote:

Be careful who you call "sugar". I've been celebrating the life of the former Empress so you caught me in a jovial mood. I won't be so amicable to insults next time.


Your compatriot's response?

Quote:

Would you be so kind now and go fiddle your subordinates in whatever type of shithole you live in? And take your girlfriend with you?

if that's not too hard to understand for a blonde like you.


After THREE attempts to diffuse the situation, Mr Victorian continued to become more and more vicious in his responses. Mistaking my kindness for weakness has caused many individuals, and alliances, their untimely demise.

He continued to escalate until he made the following statement:
Quote:

Or better yet, if you are so expert about beating people with a stick, feel free to lift your fat ass and do some field work to actually find me, even kill me, if you got what it takes. I give you one month. Rest assured, I do undock.

Oh, and to spice it up - you will be the biggest pussy if you don't. Because that's funny.



So NO, this was not two hot-headed pilots egging one another one as you suggested. This was a reasonable person responding to an unfounded character attack from a maniac so obsessed with trying to get the last word in that he will literally put his entire corporation into the cross-hairs.

This impetuous cohort of yours is a liability that you are either unable or unwilling to control. I ask for an apology, and instead you accuse me of hindering the Empire even though I've offered to put up a the strongest and most accomplished military force per capita that New Eden has ever seen.

I'm starting to think that perhaps Mr Victorian is not the anomaly in IKAME....

~

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#56 - 2015-10-12 00:49:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Makoto Priano
With due respect, Ms. Randolph, I feel you are mischaracterizing my response. I again freely state that Victorian was overstepping his bounds, has been warned that he was out of line, and is on thin ice. Needless to say, his employment hangs by a thread, which remains only out of respect for his history of contributions to our cause. I have indeed also offered to speak with you privately about this matter to ensure a mutually-agreeable resolution; after all, even if I deliver Victorian's apology, public or private, I have no guarantee that you will rescind the war, nor that you would indeed carry through with your offer of military aid in fighting the Drifters. A brief private conversation would allay these fears. I ask that we have that conversation.

What's more, while those comments are indeed terrible (and, indeed, I agree that Victorian was over the line), you surely must remember that while you comported yourself reasonably, your associate Jeff Raider was perhaps not so reasonable.

But we belabor the point. The past is done, and now we must find a path forward, productively, as is only sensible between a servant of one of the greatest houses of the Empire and a research corporation aligned with the Empire's dedicated ally, the State.

As I'm sure your time is precious, though, perhaps it may be best to make my offer publicly.

What I ask is this. If you demonstrate your goodwill through simply withdrawing the war, I will deliver a public apology from Victorian for insults both minor and major, and will then offer such materiel and guidance IKAME can so that the Legion may strike at the Drifters at their home. The assistance I offer would take the form of infrastructure maps, doctrines used, Drifter movement patterns and targeting priorities, locations of currently-open wormholes to Drifter Hives, and such pilots as we can muster if that should be wished-- either for combat support or hacking.

This is, one way or another, the best offer I can provide, and serves both to resolve our quarrel and demonstrate the magnanimity and wisdom of the Legion under your guidance.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Anyanka Funk
Doomheim
#57 - 2015-10-12 01:37:01 UTC
On behalf of IKAME, Elise, STFU!
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#58 - 2015-10-12 03:02:54 UTC
Clearly, Funk remains a feckless twit, a self-important would-be that manages only petty corptheft. On that, all else aside, I'm sure we can agree.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#59 - 2015-10-12 05:25:01 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:


As I'm sure your time is precious, though, perhaps it may be best to make my offer publicly.

What I ask is this. If you demonstrate your goodwill through simply withdrawing the war, I will deliver a public apology from Victorian for insults both minor and major, and will then offer such materiel and guidance IKAME can so that the Legion may strike at the Drifters at their home. The assistance I offer would take the form of infrastructure maps, doctrines used, Drifter movement patterns and targeting priorities, locations of currently-open wormholes to Drifter Hives, and such pilots as we can muster if that should be wished-- either for combat support or hacking.

This is, one way or another, the best offer I can provide, and serves both to resolve our quarrel and demonstrate the magnanimity and wisdom of the Legion under your guidance.



I accept the terms. As you may or may not be aware, since IKAME is not a warring corporation, the fastest way to resolution by CONCORD laws is to send a "Surrender Offer". Otherwise I will simply default on the payment, and CONCORD will invalidate the war in four days time.

I am happy to see a fair resolution.

~

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#60 - 2015-10-12 06:04:16 UTC
While 'surrender' is perhaps less appropriate than 'armistice,' I'll send it as the technicality representing acceptance of our discussed terms. CONCORD's regulations regarding war declarations are frankly a bit odd. I will speak with Victorian, and an appropriate post will be made within the day.

I'll also send a mail to discuss possible operations, structured in such a way as to both profit the Legion, and provide marginal recompense to IKAME and its associates, given our prior tendency to offer full SRP for operations we lead. Please note that we may need to discuss ways to preserve operational security but also include the greater research community. The exact balance is something we can work out.

Please note that the most beneficial arrangement is a series of five operations; I'll work on the arrangements for that.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?