Crime & Punishment

That will never happen, more's the pity.

Anyone dumb enough to get killed in highsec in a freighter deserves a Darwin Award.

A freighter with an appropriate escort is almost totally invincible in highsec. A freighter, interceptor and Daredevil together can counter every gank tactic used or, worst case, can tell a system is too dangerous to enter in advance of going into it.

As for people that undock a freighter without an escort and without capacity to escalate - they are as dumb as people that rat in carriers without being aligned, having an exit cyno or paying attention to intel. EVE is designed to punish stupid play.

It seems more designed to punish people who don't multibox support alts, frankly.

Most of the looting is done with a freighter. If it's DST-able yeah that gets used. I have only used a DST maybe once though, so I don't see why this is a huge issue. Also, you try to pop all the wrecks you can so.......... there's your counter!

There is nothing wrong with the killing of empty freighters and it doesn't change the point. If they had friends helping to move it, it would have been safe. Before you start ranting, yes I am aware not that many player (if any) would have a friend move an empty freighter. But that still doesn't exclude the other options open, such as avoiding systems and the time of your move.

It's also not about forcing people into any type of game play either, it's simply advice. They either do it or do not, that is their choice. But it's a bit rich to not follow advice, then complain about it later. You took the risk, you paid with a loss. It happens, even to gankers.

Also you're wrong about the nerfs, they have been on going since 2003. The biggest decline was also not a result of players, it was a direct result of CCP trying other things none PvP related. They have been trying to play catch up ever since.

I'm surprised you didn't go for C&P bingo and say that players leave because of ganking. Or try to suggest once again, some sort of RL psychological issues that are related to blowing up space pixels. You could have won the thread.

HEY MAN DONT UNDOCK. I HEAR REPORTS OF PVP EVEN IN PLACES THAT ARE SAFE PLACES TO VOYAGE THROUGH.

Wait are you telling me in 250 red frog trips only 2 ever got ganked... that would mean most freighters make it safely through...

I see the usual suspects are still spouting their uninformed, myopic and ignorant drivel.

It's not a big issue, it just is AN issue. Your guys (code/goons/htfu crowd who think I'm advocating hisec as a theme park) always use numbers when you want to prove that something does not require change. “Only 2 out of 250 freighters in Red Frog ever get ganked”, “1 in 50 freighters moving through Uedama gets killed, hence it is not an issue” etc. I don't see it like that, and I doubt CCP does, because it is a matter of general game mechanics, not the extent of a mechanic being (ab)used. How many people were affected by skynetting for example? I'd say not too many in terms of PvP kills. Still it got nerfed, not because of the overall impact but because it was an almost risk free and, ultimately, stupid mechanic.

Same goes for DST looting, it might not be the most used mechanic but in its core it is absolutely against everything EVE is about when talking about risk and reward. It's sad to see all the HTFU crowd being so vocal to miners/indy pilots about need to accept risks while at the same time so defensive against removal/rework of this, clearly broken, mechanic. Yes it can be countered by looting before the DST, popping the wreck etc, however the fact remains - ability to loot using DST when only the disposable alt who transfers the loot goes suspect is counter-intuitive and broken.

It is pretty much the same for freighter bumping in hi-sec. Consequence-free ability to keep a ship in place with a slight ISK investment, disposable alt and basic piloting skills is ok? Attempting to counter it requires at least the same investment of both people and isk (usually more), quite a decent set of skills and is far less reliable then bumping, but still - bumping is ok? Let’s not forget - if you have two bumping machs, there is no counter, whatsoever. How’s that for good mechanics? Oh and when I say that the fact that you can gank those bumpers cannot be considered an acceptable reliable counter, I get flamed, but let me repeat it – ganking bumpers cannot be considered a legitimate counter. Why? Well ganking bumper is a consequence-laden act (loss of ship, sec status and providing a killright) countering something which can be done without any consequence at all while still acting in an aggressive role (aggression-free warp disruption).

Fact is - if bumper has any idea what he's doing, countering him is much more difficult than the actual bumping he performs is. I have done bumping, counter bumping, bumping into warp, suiciding alt to provide window of opportunity for freighter to get away, cloaky warp-ins, etc. and the fact is – bumping out of warp is absolutely the easiest thing on that list. Furthermore, the fact that you can pinpoint target, keep it bumped/aggressed for basically hours while your buddies respond to OOG pings and form fleets only to kill the target and log off is broken. That is not emergent content, its simply use of a game mechanic which needs serious re-thinking. Add on top of that ISBoxing ganker fleets, alt recycling, warping off under criminal flag and (likely) other exploits CCP clearly can't be bothered investigating and enforcing and you get a broken aspect of the game.

Yes I know I will be flamed again, and no I don’t care.

Sounds easy when you say it as a throw away line, doing it is however not an easy matter, a fast moving Macherial set up for bumping is not an easy target, its not at all like a freighter..