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Fix for freighter bumping: Make webs give suspect flag not criminal

Author
Syeed Ameer Ali
Dirtbag Space Warriors Coming for yor Loots
#21 - 2015-10-09 17:14:48 UTC
Mag's wrote:
"Just one more nerf and it will be balanced."


At first I thought this was another nerf suggestion. Then I realized how much fun I could have following random people around highsec webbing the **** out of them and only getting a suspect flag. I suspect that this could be a better way to bait carebears even than shooting their MTUs.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#22 - 2015-10-09 17:21:19 UTC
Starcruiser Stasarik wrote:
Mag's wrote:
"Just one more nerf and it will be balanced."

I'm guessing you've never done any actual balancing of anything complex. Small iterative changes done over periods of time are the best way to achieve an actual balance, while trying to do single massive changes usually leave things in worse shape than before.

"Balance" in a game like Eve isn't like a hardened blacksmith forging a sword with heavy-handed hits. It's like a retired carpenter whittling a statue on his front porch making a large number of small cuts.

"One more change" eventually WILL reach the balance point, so long as the changes are done in small steps over time to see what the outcomes are.

Also, making webs give suspect instead of criminal flags isn't so much a nerf as it is an open door for a lot of other potential content.
You must be new to the forums, welcome.

Now when you can explain why this is actually needed, what it fixes and why we should overlook the consequences of this change, then you can lecture me on the topic of balance. Blink

Serendipity Lost wrote:
I think you're being too sensitive again.
Nah I just think all these ill thought out ideas, are just that. At least be honest and admit it's another call for one more nerf, even though a laughably bad one.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#23 - 2015-10-09 17:21:57 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
afkalt wrote:
RoCkEt X wrote:
Just invite your webbing alt to a duel using the freighter pilot and stop being a whining moron. That's what everyone else does.

Oh, and btw. use a cruor, takes almost no time to train and has dank web range.



You're missing his point (although that was my reaction to reading the title to be fair).

He wants to web the bumping machs.

Why the hell would you want to do that? It's far more effective to web your freighter than to web the bumper.



Webbing the mach would be very effective also. I think the idea of a freighter outrunning a mach and then warping off is pretty awesome. The bonus is the mach (and anyone else on the gate) can engage the webber. The bumpers could then bring 2 machs which would mean 2 webbers and so on. This is one of the best content creation ideas to come along in quite some time.

There are several options for the webber. More range (cruor) or better webs (dare devil). There are a lot of open ended options for this. I see neutral white knights sitting in niarja aiding random freighter traffic. I see them being countered. I see small merc outfits randomly helping freighters looking for someone to do something about it. There is a lot of good that can come out of this idea. Empire webbing flag can do nothing but create content.

This seems to be in line with what CCP has been foreshadowing - pilots takeing more control of eve. This would be a good first step back by CONCORD.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#24 - 2015-10-09 17:22:53 UTC
Syeed Ameer Ali wrote:
Mag's wrote:
"Just one more nerf and it will be balanced."


At first I thought this was another nerf suggestion. Then I realized how much fun I could have following random people around highsec webbing the **** out of them and only getting a suspect flag. I suspect that this could be a better way to bait carebears even than shooting their MTUs.
But that's the point bud. They are so fixated on nerfing, they fail to realise the inherent issues with what they ask for. Sure let's do it, then watch and laugh as the threadnaughts start with all the whining. Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#25 - 2015-10-09 17:27:19 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Starcruiser Stasarik wrote:
Mag's wrote:
"Just one more nerf and it will be balanced."

I'm guessing you've never done any actual balancing of anything complex. Small iterative changes done over periods of time are the best way to achieve an actual balance, while trying to do single massive changes usually leave things in worse shape than before.

"Balance" in a game like Eve isn't like a hardened blacksmith forging a sword with heavy-handed hits. It's like a retired carpenter whittling a statue on his front porch making a large number of small cuts.

"One more change" eventually WILL reach the balance point, so long as the changes are done in small steps over time to see what the outcomes are.

Also, making webs give suspect instead of criminal flags isn't so much a nerf as it is an open door for a lot of other potential content.
You must be new to the forums, welcome.

Now when you can explain why this is actually needed, what it fixes and why we should overlook the consequences of this change, then you can lecture me on the topic of balance. Blink

Serendipity Lost wrote:
I think you're being too sensitive again.
Nah I just think all these ill thought out ideas, are just that. At least be honest and admit it's another call for one more nerf, even though a laughably bad one.



If that's the way you see it, then this would be a place to give them what they want. They are asking to trade a red card out for a yellow card. Let them. If the guy is asking for content on a gate (going supsect) how can you frame that as a nerf to HS?

How does this not promote empire PVP??
Mag's
Azn Empire
#26 - 2015-10-09 17:31:55 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
If that's the way you see it, then this would be a place to give them what they want. They are asking to trade a red card out for a yellow card. Let them. If the guy is asking for content on a gate (going supsect) how can you frame that as a nerf to HS?

How does this not promote empire PVP??
Sure, go for it. I'm sure you've thought it through, just like the OP and think all will be well. Blink

I'm now all for it, simply because you like it. Big smile

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#27 - 2015-10-09 17:34:19 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
If that's the way you see it, then this would be a place to give them what they want. They are asking to trade a red card out for a yellow card. Let them. If the guy is asking for content on a gate (going supsect) how can you frame that as a nerf to HS?

How does this not promote empire PVP??
Sure, go for it. I'm sure you've thought it through, just like the OP and think all will be well. Blink

I'm now all for it, simply because you like it. Big smile



Finally!

I'll be expecting this kind of support on everything from here on out. Shocked
Mag's
Azn Empire
#28 - 2015-10-09 17:39:15 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Sure, go for it. I'm sure you've thought it through, just like the OP and think all will be well. Blink

I'm now all for it, simply because you like it. Big smile



Finally!

I'll be expecting this kind of support on everything from here on out. Shocked
If it's bad, will backfire and you like it, the chances are I will say I'm all for it.

I may be rather busy.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#29 - 2015-10-09 17:44:31 UTC
I need all the help I can get. There is so much to do.

Once this goes through, I'll web you every chance I get. Just cuz it will be the right thing to do.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#30 - 2015-10-09 18:01:56 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I need all the help I can get.
Can't argue with that.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Thron Legacy
White Zulu
Scorpion Federation
#31 - 2015-10-09 20:31:08 UTC
I have to say bumpers are in as much risk as OGB, and have around the same impact (literally)
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
#32 - 2015-10-10 02:09:13 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

Quote:
you can't always save yourself from a good bumper



some one being good at something is not a reason for you to change game mechanics

Lots of people used to be good at AFK botting.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#33 - 2015-10-10 13:11:27 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

Quote:
you can't always save yourself from a good bumper



some one being good at something is not a reason for you to change game mechanics

Lots of people used to be good at AFK botting.

And I would add that some people used to be really good at can flipping and enjoyed that very much.
Because some one is good at something is not a reason to keep it in the game.
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