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Small gang PVE setup for L5 missions (Minmatar Only, Subcapital)
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Boozbaz
Securitech Industries
#1 - 2015-10-09 19:12:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Boozbaz
Hey guys, it's been several months since I've posted much on the forums about L5 missions. The time has finally come to run some L5's.

I've gotten to know a few other players who are interested in running L5 missions with me. We're planning on logging into the test server sometime to try L5's out without having to deal with the PVP aspects of lowsec.

So here's my question to you: If you had about 3 - 6 pilots and you were running L5's as a group, what ships would you bring?

Here's our limitation: Subcapital Minmatar Ships Only and no Vargurs.

Yes, Minmatar only.

I know that Tengu's are very popular for PVE content, a chain of Basilisks make excellent logi under neut towers, and Carriers are good for soloing these missions, but I'm playing with a lot of pilots who are skilled and trained into Minmatar ships and we cannot fly other races ships, nor can we fly Capital ships or Marauders. So that's going to be a bit hard for us, because I know a lot of the Minmatar ships aren't exactly the optimal choices for PVE content; however, I'm sure that with a group of 3-6 pilots, we can still manage to run L5 missions quickly with Minnie ships. I'm just curious about which ones we should use.

So what do you think, if you were to get a small gang of subcapital Minmatar ships together to run L5 missions, which ships would you use? 6 Lokis? 4 Maelstroms + 2 Scimitars? Vagabonds? Cyclones? I'm open for suggestions.

You don't need to tell me that this would be a lot easier if we all just cross-trained into Tengus, or if someone brought a carrier; I already know this.

Side note: For those of you that are reading this and are part of the Minmatar Mission Running Network, and fly Tengus, Carriers, ETC... don't worry. I'm not going to run a fleet and exclude pilots who fly anything other than Minnie ships. I'm just trying to get a fleet doctrine together that encompasses the Minmatar pilots first, (since there are a lot of Minnie pilots in the network), and then I'll augment the fleet with your ships if/when you Amarr/Caldari/Gallente pilots are online and ready to join the fleet in your Drake, Paladin, Nyx, ETC
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#2 - 2015-10-09 20:01:17 UTC  |  Edited by: chaosgrimm
I'd put my vote in for 6 maelstrom. Moar deeps == Moar fun!

You might be able to solo tank capless via dual XLASBs and passive hardeners. But its been quite awhile since I've done Vs.
Boozbaz
Securitech Industries
#3 - 2015-10-09 20:14:00 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:
I'd put my vote in for 6 maelstrom. Moar deeps == Moar fun!

You might be able to solo tank capless via dual XLASBs and passive hardeners. But its been quite awhile since I've done Vs.



6 Mael's can 1-shot most NPC battleships. And they could probably one or two shot the cap draining towers.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#4 - 2015-10-09 20:27:51 UTC
Off the top of my head, in a fleet of 6 I would bring:

[Typhoon, dps] X 2

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Large Micro Jump Drive

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Imperial Navy Curator x4

[Scythe, reps] X 3

Damage Control II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

10MN Afterburner II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Medium Remote Shield Booster II
Medium Remote Shield Booster II
Medium Remote Capacitor Transmitter II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

[Rapier, scout/TPs] X 1

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
10MN Afterburner II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Warrior II x5


You could prolly go for T2 logi reps instead. In that case you can drop one logi and add another DPS ship.
Boozbaz
Securitech Industries
#5 - 2015-10-09 20:29:14 UTC
Estella Osoka, excellent composition, thank you!
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#6 - 2015-10-09 20:37:25 UTC
You could also make the Rapier the drone bunny, and use it to take out frigs.

Alternate DPS ship I would use would be a Tempest fitted like this:

[Tempest, Tempest fit]

Damage Control II
Reactor Control Unit II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Large Micro Jump Drive

1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Warrior II x5
Warrior II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5


Inherent Implants 'Squire' Power Grid Management EG-603
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#7 - 2015-10-09 20:45:31 UTC
Also, you will have to think of some setups that can take out pvpers who may try to disrupt your activities. In that case you will have to think about bringing along a fleet tackler.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#8 - 2015-10-09 21:02:15 UTC
I've never run L5s but how about 3-6 spider tanking cruise phoons? No idea how you'd put them together but you'd be looking at around 900-1k dps per ship with either one large remote rep or a large rep and large energy transfer. The ship is a bit light on CPU so co-proc or overclock rig will probably be needed.

Fleet phoons are better and easier to make this work with of course

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#9 - 2015-10-09 21:15:05 UTC
Ok so maybe not spider tanking, but one up/one down cap transfers with burst tanking X-L shield boosters might work. It can be scaled up/down super easily each bringing 600 missile dps and 200 drone dps and a TP

Again haven't run lv5s myself but hay, if it works for domis right?

[Typhoon, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II
Missile Guidance Enhancer II
Co-Processor II

Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

Curator II x4
Hobgoblin II x5

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#10 - 2015-10-09 21:23:51 UTC
That's not how domis do it. They use most of the hi-slots and remote rep and remote cap each other.

The key to running the L5s will be to primary the neuts. The high alpha of artys works best in my opinion as missiles take valuable seconds to reach their target. In a fleet with multiple artillery platforms you can stagger your DPS for timely application. The multiple ships will also make it so the neut towers won't be able to target every ship. Logi will have to be on top of their game. Keep nano paste on hand in case you have to overheat.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#11 - 2015-10-09 21:49:53 UTC
I'd probably drop one of the logi for an extra dps ship and use t2 logistics ships.

I'd try and get a web or two on the raiper, not super needed for the NPCs, but will help on some targets, and also another anti-player tool. Can probably put a painter on the poons too. Painters seem to hit diminishing returns, especially when you have long range webs available. the bonused rapier painter plus 3 unbonused painters from phoons would put a cruiser over the explosion radius of a fury cruise missile with 2 rigors, and with 2 long range webs you are going to put it under the explosion velocity as well hitting for full damage

I'd also be tempted to say go with tempests, but that might just be because I favor turret ships. Either way I'd probably be more tempted to fill the last two not bonused highs with utility stuff rather than try and cram damage in there. Having a few defensive neuts in case someone tries to interfere with your ops is probably a smart move, although not sure how much you want to focus on being pvp capable as well.

Also on the test server I'd try fitting a few remote energy transfers to help out whoever is getting drained by the energy neut towers. not sure how well that will actually work in game though.

and the other question is do you have the ability to fit warfare links? throwing someone in a sleipnir or claymore might make sense, or if someone has a links alt that can just sit in system.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#12 - 2015-10-10 16:40:24 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I'd probably drop one of the logi for an extra dps ship and use t2 logistics ships.

I'd try and get a web or two on the raiper, not super needed for the NPCs, but will help on some targets, and also another anti-player tool. Can probably put a painter on the poons too. Painters seem to hit diminishing returns, especially when you have long range webs available. the bonused rapier painter plus 3 unbonused painters from phoons would put a cruiser over the explosion radius of a fury cruise missile with 2 rigors, and with 2 long range webs you are going to put it under the explosion velocity as well hitting for full damage

I'd also be tempted to say go with tempests, but that might just be because I favor turret ships. Either way I'd probably be more tempted to fill the last two not bonused highs with utility stuff rather than try and cram damage in there. Having a few defensive neuts in case someone tries to interfere with your ops is probably a smart move, although not sure how much you want to focus on being pvp capable as well.

Also on the test server I'd try fitting a few remote energy transfers to help out whoever is getting drained by the energy neut towers. not sure how well that will actually work in game though.

and the other question is do you have the ability to fit warfare links? throwing someone in a sleipnir or claymore might make sense, or if someone has a links alt that can just sit in system.


Agree, most of my recommendations are because I'm trying to keep it cheap.
Cupcake1980 Mernher
Disaster Area
DISASTER Delivery Service
#13 - 2015-10-11 17:11:29 UTC
lvl 5s have numerous towers, webbing ones, neut ones, sentry, cruise and heavy missile. BUT once in they don't switch aggro unlike the npcs, The level Vs can be done in a solo sub cap ship, but using Maels I would go full passive and put rr in the highs, maybe send a full passive tank fit in 1st, LSE, amps and purgers etc, then send the rr in once tower aggro has been got. arties seem like a good idea but tracking might become a problem unless rapier/huginn or webby loki used. Or you could do yourself a favour and just get a Rattlesnake, easily solo's them.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#14 - 2015-10-12 03:21:16 UTC
Yep it would save you a lot of trouble if you had access to at least one Rattlesnake. But if you only can fly Minmatar, then I'll suggest Typhoons or Tempests for damage and a pair of passive shield tanked Lokis to draw agro and soak up all the damage.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#15 - 2015-10-12 03:27:30 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
That's not how domis do it. They use most of the hi-slots and remote rep and remote cap each other.

The key to running the L5s will be to primary the neuts. The high alpha of artys works best in my opinion as missiles take valuable seconds to reach their target. In a fleet with multiple artillery platforms you can stagger your DPS for timely application. The multiple ships will also make it so the neut towers won't be able to target every ship. Logi will have to be on top of their game. Keep nano paste on hand in case you have to overheat.



How does the NPC agro mechanics work in Lev 5s? Like which ships are the most likely to be primary or is it random?
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-10-12 04:04:56 UTC
Of course the Mach is sort of a Minmatar sub cap :D Kind of. Just saying.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#17 - 2015-10-12 09:31:06 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Of course the Mach is sort of a Minmatar sub cap :D Kind of. Just saying.


The Mach is also a very attractive gank target and a Typhoon does the job almost as well.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#18 - 2015-10-12 09:39:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Used to use a Loki to tank the last room of 8/10s and 10/10s (armor tank because sansha) while I had fleetmembers come in with dps ships to clear up tackle frigs/towers after I enter the room and grab aggro in case I or anyone else needed to warp out.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#19 - 2015-10-12 13:30:59 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
That's not how domis do it. They use most of the hi-slots and remote rep and remote cap each other.

The key to running the L5s will be to primary the neuts. The high alpha of artys works best in my opinion as missiles take valuable seconds to reach their target. In a fleet with multiple artillery platforms you can stagger your DPS for timely application. The multiple ships will also make it so the neut towers won't be able to target every ship. Logi will have to be on top of their game. Keep nano paste on hand in case you have to overheat.



How does the NPC agro mechanics work in Lev 5s? Like which ships are the most likely to be primary or is it random?


Aggro mechanics work just the same as any other mission. NPCs switch just like in any other mission. Key difference is the amount of DPS.
Miali Askulf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2015-10-13 10:59:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Miali Askulf
MJD typhoons (shield or armor doesn't really matter) and potentially one or two logi if you're set on minmatar subcaps. Or anything really with 6 people, most of L5s people actually run (there's a few ridiculous and/or bugged ones that are easier to just decline) aren't that hard to solo with a HAC or t1 battleship.