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[Skill Plan] Remaps

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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#21 - 2015-10-09 07:53:42 UTC
what about giving new 'toons an additional 2 remaps after a certain amount of time subscribed.... say 3 months,
and giving traded 'toons an additional remap each time they're traded (up to a MAXIMUM of 1 extra map per year)
?

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2015-10-09 12:34:23 UTC
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
what about giving new 'toons an additional 2 remaps after a certain amount of time subscribed.... say 3 months,
and giving traded 'toons an additional remap each time they're traded (up to a MAXIMUM of 1 extra map per year)
?


You just put a PLEX price on remaps. You do realise that right?
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#23 - 2015-10-09 13:09:21 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
what about giving new 'toons an additional 2 remaps after a certain amount of time subscribed.... say 3 months,
and giving traded 'toons an additional remap each time they're traded (up to a MAXIMUM of 1 extra map per year)
?


You just put a PLEX price on remaps. You do realise that right?


It is more or less for free, if you can get an extra remap per year.

Power of two costs 3 PLEX, subscribes a new account for 6 months.
A transfer costs 2 PLEX, so you would get 1 month for free and 1 bonus remap :)

I like hate the idea.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#24 - 2015-10-09 15:20:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Valacus wrote:


*Offers no argument at all* "Clearly you shouldn't make a post about xxxxxxx."

Yes, very convincing argument.



Valacus wrote:


Again, no argument, only rhetoric and school yard insults. Ability to make case against suggestion, 0%.


Valacus wrote:


In that respect, no change at all is "needed" in EVE Online. Changes in any game are always quality of life. While I don't necessarily think we need unlimited remaps, 1 a year is definitely way too few, especially if we want to keep attracting newer players to come join us so that our game can grow and live on. Just dismissing these claims as, "No, this game isn't for babies" is a really stupid sentiment. That's how games die. We were all EVE babies and one point, and if the game was this developed when I first joined, I would have enjoyed myself a lot more and not taken a huge break from it. I also wager more people would have stayed that didn't. In the grand scheme of things, a few more neural remaps a year doesn't make us babies or even make the game appealing it babies, it just eases some of the pressure, especially for new people who have to race through skills to keep up with us vets. Well, we want and need those new people, and it wouldn't break the game or wreck our fun as vets to allow them a little QoL, so you have still failed to convince me that they are not "needed", and failed to provide an argument to make your case.



The irony of your posts makes for a funny read valacus.

@OP
The point of attributes was to give a theme to your character. If they were going to be an industrialist you would bump up memory and intelligence at the expense of the other three attributes. If they were going to be a combat pilot you could bump up perception and will power at the expense of the other three attributes. It used to be that the race you chose for your character also affected your attributes, but that was removed a long time ago because unlike a remap, you were stuck with it forever.

Giving a theme to your character was also meant to be a meaningful and long term choice, so rather than let you remap all the time, remaps were restricted to once a year. Noobs were given an extra remap so if they chose a career they soon discovered they didnt like they could switch again.

It has its drawback however. Players use it to min/max and the players who can min/max the easiest is older players with longer train times. Add to that how noobs (no doubt with the help of the idiots in NPC corp chat) often rush into things without thinking about it and re-map as soon as possible to train each individual skill (ugh) and you can see why the attribute/remap is being discussed.

But back to your proposal:

If remaps were made more frequent then what would be the point in attributes at all? Why not just let everyone train every skill at max SP/hour?

If its just noobs that you think are suffering from remaps, then why not remove remaps as an option for chars under a year old?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Peckles
brain drain corp
#25 - 2015-10-09 16:52:20 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Valacus wrote:


*Offers no argument at all* "Clearly you shouldn't make a post about xxxxxxx."

Yes, very convincing argument.



Valacus wrote:


Again, no argument, only rhetoric and school yard insults. Ability to make case against suggestion, 0%.


Valacus wrote:


In that respect, no change at all is "needed" in EVE Online. Changes in any game are always quality of life. While I don't necessarily think we need unlimited remaps, 1 a year is definitely way too few, especially if we want to keep attracting newer players to come join us so that our game can grow and live on. Just dismissing these claims as, "No, this game isn't for babies" is a really stupid sentiment. That's how games die. We were all EVE babies and one point, and if the game was this developed when I first joined, I would have enjoyed myself a lot more and not taken a huge break from it. I also wager more people would have stayed that didn't. In the grand scheme of things, a few more neural remaps a year doesn't make us babies or even make the game appealing it babies, it just eases some of the pressure, especially for new people who have to race through skills to keep up with us vets. Well, we want and need those new people, and it wouldn't break the game or wreck our fun as vets to allow them a little QoL, so you have still failed to convince me that they are not "needed", and failed to provide an argument to make your case.



The irony of your posts makes for a funny read valacus.

@OP
The point of attributes was to give a theme to your character. If they were going to be an industrialist you would bump up memory and intelligence at the expense of the other three attributes. If they were going to be a combat pilot you could bump up perception and will power at the expense of the other three attributes. It used to be that the race you chose for your character also affected your attributes, but that was removed a long time ago because unlike a remap, you were stuck with it forever.

Giving a theme to your character was also meant to be a meaningful and long term choice, so rather than let you remap all the time, remaps were restricted to once a year. Noobs were given an extra remap so if they chose a career they soon discovered they didnt like they could switch again.

It has its drawback however. Players use it to min/max and the players who can min/max the easiest is older players with longer train times. Add to that how noobs (no doubt with the help of the idiots in NPC corp chat) often rush into things without thinking about it and re-map as soon as possible to train each individual skill (ugh) and you can see why the attribute/remap is being discussed.

But back to your proposal:

If remaps were made more frequent then what would be the point in attributes at all? Why not just let everyone train every skill at max SP/hour?

If its just noobs that you think are suffering from remaps, then why not remove remaps as an option for chars under a year old?



Eve is suppose to be a sandbox. I would greatly prefer a flat sp/hr and removal attirubtes is not a cut and dry thing. Unlimited reaps is a stepping stone in the right direction towards that goal while immediately giving players of eve quality of life

If we wanted to remove remaps sure. I think we should get an attituBute boost as compensation... I merely suggested reaps because i think it is technically less effort
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#26 - 2015-10-09 17:18:58 UTC
I am mongst the first Achura, the new sexy from fall 2006 and I say no. It should have some meaning what you train and when. We don't need more links alts and super pilots with racial battleship level one and engineering 2

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Amateratsu
The Pegasus Project
#27 - 2015-10-09 18:17:57 UTC
Eventually Attributes / Remaps / Learning Implants are going to be removed from the game just like the learning skills were removed.

CCP do not like the attribute system and want it gone. its just a question of working out the best way to do it, and how long it will take to code and implement.

So all these arguments for and against remapping are irrelevent.

The attribute system and remapping is nothing more than a meta game that offers no actual benefits to actual gameplay.
All it does is delay progression by forcing players (especially new players) to train the skills they need at sub optimal speeds.

Reducing the time between remaps would have no impact on actuall gameplay what so ever, but will allow players to gain the skills they need to actually play the game a little faster, which means they are less likely to get bored or frustrated waiting for the skills they need to complete.

Removing the 1 year timer and allowing unlimited remaps or even reducing the delay to say 3 months would be a good compromise while we wait for CCP to remove the attribute system altogether.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2015-10-09 19:26:44 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
I am mongst the first Achura, the new sexy from fall 2006 and I say no. It should have some meaning what you train and when. We don't need more links alts and super pilots with racial battleship level one and engineering 2


I'm pretty sure you can't train for a super with battleship level one.

You being among the first achura mean exactly nothing.
Valacus
Streets of Fire
#29 - 2015-10-13 16:39:35 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Valacus wrote:


*Offers no argument at all* "Clearly you shouldn't make a post about xxxxxxx."

Yes, very convincing argument.



Valacus wrote:


Again, no argument, only rhetoric and school yard insults. Ability to make case against suggestion, 0%.


Valacus wrote:


In that respect, no change at all is "needed" in EVE Online. Changes in any game are always quality of life. While I don't necessarily think we need unlimited remaps, 1 a year is definitely way too few, especially if we want to keep attracting newer players to come join us so that our game can grow and live on. Just dismissing these claims as, "No, this game isn't for babies" is a really stupid sentiment. That's how games die. We were all EVE babies and one point, and if the game was this developed when I first joined, I would have enjoyed myself a lot more and not taken a huge break from it. I also wager more people would have stayed that didn't. In the grand scheme of things, a few more neural remaps a year doesn't make us babies or even make the game appealing it babies, it just eases some of the pressure, especially for new people who have to race through skills to keep up with us vets. Well, we want and need those new people, and it wouldn't break the game or wreck our fun as vets to allow them a little QoL, so you have still failed to convince me that they are not "needed", and failed to provide an argument to make your case.



The irony of your posts makes for a funny read valacus.

@OP
The point of attributes was to give a theme to your character. If they were going to be an industrialist you would bump up memory and intelligence at the expense of the other three attributes. If they were going to be a combat pilot you could bump up perception and will power at the expense of the other three attributes. It used to be that the race you chose for your character also affected your attributes, but that was removed a long time ago because unlike a remap, you were stuck with it forever.

Giving a theme to your character was also meant to be a meaningful and long term choice, so rather than let you remap all the time, remaps were restricted to once a year. Noobs were given an extra remap so if they chose a career they soon discovered they didnt like they could switch again.

It has its drawback however. Players use it to min/max and the players who can min/max the easiest is older players with longer train times. Add to that how noobs (no doubt with the help of the idiots in NPC corp chat) often rush into things without thinking about it and re-map as soon as possible to train each individual skill (ugh) and you can see why the attribute/remap is being discussed.

But back to your proposal:

If remaps were made more frequent then what would be the point in attributes at all? Why not just let everyone train every skill at max SP/hour?

If its just noobs that you think are suffering from remaps, then why not remove remaps as an option for chars under a year old?


The only irony is on you, given that CCP themselves isn't happy with the current attribute system. It doesn't add a "theme" to your character at all, because no one set of attributes is going to skill up your ship appropriately UNLESS you already have all the fitting skills, warp skills, capacitor skills, and upgrade skills already trained to V. Well, noobs don't have that luxury, so they have to drink the Koolaid one way or the other. I can just dump all my attributes into Per/Wil and train weapons and spaceship command day and night without losing a beat, and I'm already ahead of them. They don't have that luxury. Your view is completely short sighted and just plain fictitious in many ways.
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#30 - 2015-10-13 19:33:08 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I demand SP reimbursment for all those 'off max' skills i was forced to train before remaps existed. I also demand SP reimbursment for all the training I had to postpone because we didn't always have unlimited remaps.


Saving this post to link when someone posts it in 100% sincerity after attributes go away
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#31 - 2015-10-13 21:48:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Valacus wrote:


The only irony is on you, given that CCP themselves isn't happy with the current attribute system. It doesn't add a "theme" to your character at all, because no one set of attributes is going to skill up your ship appropriately UNLESS you already have all the fitting skills, warp skills, capacitor skills, and upgrade skills already trained to V. Well, noobs don't have that luxury, so they have to drink the Koolaid one way or the other. I can just dump all my attributes into Per/Wil and train weapons and spaceship command day and night without losing a beat, and I'm already ahead of them. They don't have that luxury. Your view is completely short sighted and just plain fictitious in many ways.



I literally said that there are flaws with the current system and they are being discussed. and your posts were just as nonconstructive as the posts you criticized. You know what irony means right? Or didnt you read my post past the first line?

You've jumped the gun and then some. For example, more fitting skills are being handed out to new chars as standard since vanguard. and your wrong, any remap can skill up any amount of skills of any attributes, it just takes longer and that was the point. Did you not notice that the amount of remappable attributes is smaller than the base attributes? it was quite deliberate that CCP made it so that you couldnt **** yourself over too much. Roll

calling me short sighted when you cant read past one line Lol

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Valacus
Streets of Fire
#32 - 2015-10-14 14:00:55 UTC
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I demand SP reimbursment for all those 'off max' skills i was forced to train before remaps existed. I also demand SP reimbursment for all the training I had to postpone because we didn't always have unlimited remaps.


Saving this post to link when someone posts it in 100% sincerity after attributes go away


When they removed learning skills, we all got reimbursed for the SP spent on said skills. I doubt we'll all get million upon millions of SP for free, but I'm sure they'll give us something as a consolation prize. Even if they didn't, I would not lose a lick of sleep over it.
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#33 - 2015-10-14 15:37:21 UTC
Quote:
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As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.

Thread locked.

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