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Sniper NAGA fit for small scale pvp
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Dagnar
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-10-08 16:17:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Dagnar
I am trying to figure out the best fit for a small scale pvp sniper NAGA.

My targets will be likely in fast cruisers. With plutonium I can hit them effectively out to around 130km with 800 dps. The trouble I have found in my test is that my applied DPS increases greatly with tracking computers with the tracking speed script. 30% increase per tracking computer.

How many tracking computers would normally be used in such a fit? With 3 of them my actual damage dealt to a cruiser/svipul orbiting at 120km increases by a large amount. I have 3 locus rigs for range so I can't use a tracking rig without losing range. Is it considered ok to use 3 tracking computers equipped with tracking scripts on a Naga? Leaves room for 2 sensor boosters and an invuln field. No room for a shield extender sadly. Even with a shield extender my EHP only changes from about 10k to 14k anyway.
Bobb Bobbington
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#2 - 2015-10-08 16:26:44 UTC
I don't fly sniper stuff normally, but I just want to make a few points. If you're caught, you're screwed anyway, an invuln won't do anything. I'd replace that with a MJD if you can fit it, incase an interceptor gets a disruptor on you, theres a chance you'll still be able to MJD to safety.

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#3 - 2015-10-08 17:13:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Torgeir Hekard
What's the point of a 100+ naga in small scale?
It does not have enough DPS to kill targets before they warp out. Nah. It does not have enough DPS period. It's biggest advantage is it can haz decent DPS at good range AND a brick tank. If you don't need brick tank, you don't really need a naga.
It can not stop targets from warping out.
It does not synergize with long lach points, because the lach needs to be some 50km closer.
If it has small tackle to hold points, that small tackle is much closer to the enemy and too far from the naga. If you have a logi, he will curse the day he got in a fleet with you.

Oh. And 130+ is about the range of combat probing warps. Which is kinda relevant considering every t3d and his granny and her dog and the cockroaches on her kitchen can haz free expanded probe launcher.

Nagas are for 30+ fleets.

Get a pulse oracle. Or a talos (it has a tracking bonus which is more relevant to your needs than the insane optimal of range-bonused large rails on the naga).
Or a bunch of nadoes. They don't need 20 DPS ships to blap targets, so they can work in a smallish scale (10-15 ppl including support. Maybe even less. Starts working from about 5 nadoes).

Generally speaking your maximum working range should be around linked faction points/webs on lach/huginn. Anything above that is not really useful unless you are being chased by HML cerbs.

PS: tier3 BCs don't get MJD.
Dagnar
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2015-10-08 17:17:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Dagnar
Torgeir Hekard wrote:
What's the point of a 100+ naga in small scale?
It does not have enough DPS to kill targets before they warp out. Nah. It does not have enough DPS period. It's biggest advantage is it can haz decent DPS at good range AND a brick tank. If you don't need brick tank, you don't really need a naga.
It can not stop targets from warping out.
It does not synergize with long lach points, because the lach needs to be some 50km closer.
If it has small tackle to hold points, that small tackle is much closer to the enemy and too far from the naga. If you have a logi, he will curse the day he got in a fleet with you.

Oh. And 130+ is about the range of combat probing warps. Which is kinda relevant considering every t3d and his granny and her dog and the cockroaches on her kitchen can haz free expanded probe launcher.

Nagas are for 30+ fleets.

Get a pulse oracle. Or a talos (it has a tracking bonus which is more relevant to your needs than the insane optimal of range-bonused large rails on the naga).
Or a bunch of nadoes. They don't need 20 DPS ships to blap targets, so they can work in a smallish scale (10-15 ppl including support. Maybe even less. Starts working from about 5 nadoes).

Generally speaking your maximum working range should be around linked faction points/webs on lach/huginn. Anything above that is not really useful unless you are being chased by HML cerbs.

PS: tier3 BCs don't get MJD.


800 dps per naga, several nagas adds up to a lot of dps.

Pulse oracle is a good idea, not to replace the nagas but to add some extra useful damage that is more than just kin/thermic. What range can a pulse oracle get with scorch and 2x t2 locus + 1x t1 locus rigs for extra range, plus a 20% range bonus from frentix?
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#5 - 2015-10-08 18:03:36 UTC
Dagnar wrote:

800 dps per naga, several nagas adds up to a lot of dps.

Pulse oracle is a good idea, not to replace the nagas but to add some extra useful damage that is more than just kin/thermic. What range can a pulse oracle get with scorch and 2x t2 locus + 1x t1 locus rigs for extra range, plus a 20% range bonus from frentix?

800 dps is a bit optimistic without heat. It's 3 damage mods (no DC), implants and antimatter. If you want antimatter to hit out to 80+, you need a pretty much tankless naga at which point I'm not really sure you want to hang out at that range.

Standard pulse oracle hits out to 70ish with scorch. You won't get better than that. Well, 80-85ish with strong frentix. But. It has 3 times the tracking speed and dual nanos. Which makes it about 1,5 times faster and more agile. And better cap.

You can, of course, get a beam oracle, but at that point a naga is better. A tach oracle can haz about 1,5 times the tracking, but paper DPS is better for rails. Maybe around 580 DPS @130 with strong frentix for a tach oracle.

I still think with the current abundance of combat scanners ultralong smallgangs are not viable. Darkside style nagas, IMHO, look better.
Dagnar
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-10-08 18:06:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Dagnar
Torgeir Hekard wrote:
Dagnar wrote:

800 dps per naga, several nagas adds up to a lot of dps.

Pulse oracle is a good idea, not to replace the nagas but to add some extra useful damage that is more than just kin/thermic. What range can a pulse oracle get with scorch and 2x t2 locus + 1x t1 locus rigs for extra range, plus a 20% range bonus from frentix?

800 dps is a bit optimistic without heat. It's 3 damage mods (no DC), implants and antimatter. If you want antimatter to hit out to 80+, you need a pretty much tankless naga at which point I'm not really sure you want to hang out at that range.

Standard pulse oracle hits out to 70ish with scorch. You won't get better than that. Well, 80-85ish with strong frentix. But. It has 3 times the tracking speed and dual nanos. Which makes it about 1,5 times faster and more agile. And better cap.

You can, of course, get a beam oracle, but at that point a naga is better. A tach oracle can haz about 1,5 times the tracking, but paper DPS is better for rails. Maybe around 580 DPS @130 with strong frentix for a tach oracle.

I still think with the current abundance of combat scanners ultralong smallgangs are not viable. Darkside style nagas, IMHO, look better.


Think my naga was around 750 dps without overheat with plutonium ammo and 3 mag field stabs. Optimal around 125km and can hit out to around 150+ with falloff. Tracking is improve a lot with 3 tracking scripted tracking computer II's, not that far from pulse laser tracking. In my tests I can hit a 90 sig radius MWD cruiser who is orbiting me at 100km or coming toward me at an angle with near enough full damage application.

I was planning to fight at around 110-120km, giving chance to unload some fast and heavy DPS from several of these ships on a single target. What range can combat scanners probe and warp to me from, 150km?

85km pulse oracle could be useful. What's the dps on one of those with scorch?
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#7 - 2015-10-08 18:20:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Torgeir Hekard
Dagnar wrote:

Think my naga was around 750 dps without overheat with plutonium ammo and 3 mag field stabs. Was planning to fight at about 110-120km. What range can combat scanners probe and warp to me from, 150km?

150. But you need very good piloting to keep all the fleet within 150km if your working distance is 120.
Depending on FC and individual pilot experience and grid conditions you may have big distance swings. And if your fleet is built around past-long point range combat, you will suffer even from individual t3d warpins (they only have to burn back a couple dozen kloms).

I haven't played for a little while, and maybe now ferox fleets are a thing, but barring that and HML cerbs you don't really have an actual need to sit that far away. I dare say you'd even be better with a closer range fleet, because you can have webs and painters, so the enemy doesn't have an option to break transversal, and the only remaining tracking problems would only be from poor piloting.

From personal experience, up north the biggest problems for large gun kite fleets are AF blobs that warp at zero and brick tanked (35k EHP) overdrive svipuls that have to be focused by the whole fleet. And ultralong nagas would arguably be worse at handling both than normal (with long points and webs) kiting fleets.

PS: pulse oracle is about 750DPS.
Dagnar
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-10-10 21:03:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Dagnar
Torgeir Hekard wrote:
Dagnar wrote:

Think my naga was around 750 dps without overheat with plutonium ammo and 3 mag field stabs. Was planning to fight at about 110-120km. What range can combat scanners probe and warp to me from, 150km?

150. But you need very good piloting to keep all the fleet within 150km if your working distance is 120.
Depending on FC and individual pilot experience and grid conditions you may have big distance swings. And if your fleet is built around past-long point range combat, you will suffer even from individual t3d warpins (they only have to burn back a couple dozen kloms).

I haven't played for a little while, and maybe now ferox fleets are a thing, but barring that and HML cerbs you don't really have an actual need to sit that far away. I dare say you'd even be better with a closer range fleet, because you can have webs and painters, so the enemy doesn't have an option to break transversal, and the only remaining tracking problems would only be from poor piloting.

From personal experience, up north the biggest problems for large gun kite fleets are AF blobs that warp at zero and brick tanked (35k EHP) overdrive svipuls that have to be focused by the whole fleet. And ultralong nagas would arguably be worse at handling both than normal (with long points and webs) kiting fleets.

PS: pulse oracle is about 750DPS.


nm